Kevin Yee- Airing of Grievances

[Disneyhead'71]

And this is nothing more than your opinion. People have been harping Disney Worlds decline for years. Its still there and still going strong.

Millions upon millions of people just can't be wrong.

Or are a few hundred, if that, right?

Jimmy Thick- Pie charts? Greater than less than?

Millions upon millions of people love Honey Boo Boo.

 

[Alektronic]

I didn't see any posts where someone was calling WDW unsafe and cheap. The only "cheap" part of WDW is the way management runs and maintains its parks.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Millions upon millions of people love Honey Boo Boo.

People don't spend thousands of dollars in this economy to watch Honey Boo Boo, they just turn on the TV.

Absolutely no commitment.


Jimmy Thick- But then again, cable compaines rates are getting there...

 

[the.dreamfinder]

they haven't seen it done properly (Japan).

2011 TDL Christmas Parade

Parades and decorations often updated yearly

Meanwhile at WDW....

 

[Lee]

So it looks like Disney World attendance is down slightly from what I read in those articles, yet it says consumer spending is up 7 or 8%. It contradicts claims made on this forum about guest spending and attendance both being down. One washes the other so its a moot point to beging with. Like it or not, Disney World makes money.

Hand over fist.

Of course it makes money. It just isn't making as much as they need/want it to at the moment.

The spending they are referring to is due to, as the OC Register plainly stated...

Visitor spending was up 7 percent because of higher ticket prices and food and beverage costs.

Room rates and packages were also higher, adding to the increase.
Sales of merchandise and extras were down (as an "insider" told me) significantly.

Hotel occupancy, per the Sentinal...

Domestic-hotel occupancy was down slightly for the year, to 78 percent...,

I remember a time when they considered anything below 85% to be big trouble.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Just saw the Maelstrom picture a few pages back and it just makes me sad. I would love to go to WDW, to relax, be amazed, inspired, and bask in the glow of the most incredible place on the planet.

But that place hasn't existed for quite some time now. Here's hoping things somehow get better, but whoever comes in to fix WDW at this point will have a very long to-do list.

My AP has expired and we're not renewing. No more Mickey Money from our family until WDW gets its act together.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

People don't spend thousands of dollars in this economy to watch Honey Boo Boo, they just turn on the TV.

Absolutely no commitment.


Jimmy Thick- But then again, cable compaines rates are getting there...

So? We are talking about American's taste, which I am sure some only have in their mouths.

 

[automation85]

Thats part of my point, its just a vacation destination. People should go to have a good time and now sweat the small stuff.

I never thought that broken animatronics, nets, and (speaking of not sweating) lack of air conditioning were small stuff...but I guess I'm wrong. The real world is full of vacation destinations. Orlando is gaining traction on a few of their own destinations that actually invest in quality.

That being said, I may finally understand what the Mayan prophecy was regarding....December 21st...the end of the World...

 

[baymenxpac]

"sweating the small stuff" is someone who complains that they see one napkin blowing down main street and it wasn't picked up in a timely enough manner for their liking.

being a realist is understanding that disney has, to borrow their term, "value engineered" the whole place down to an inferior product than we were given in the '80s and early '90s. and they're charging more for it to boot.

and if you can't understand why people having to clamor for a return to standards from 25-30 years ago isn't down right sad, then no one can help you.

 

[monkeysammich]

Why does it have to be either/or? Can't we be unhappy with some of the trends with disney and still love to go there and enjoy it?

That's where I stand... I'm not cancelling any trips or swearing off the world... but I'm also not just ignoring clear deficiencies and always be sure to raise my concern to a CM or Guest Services.

 

[flynnibus]

Don't feed the trolls....

This site goes in circles because people think you can rationalize with them... You can't
Or think you can correct them... They don't care, just getting you wound up is the goal...
Or think you can 'out' them... That's just more attention for them and notoriety

There is one and only one course of action - do not respond to the baiting. Do not feed the trolls

 

[Lee]

Don't feed the trolls....

This site goes in circles because people think you can rationalize with them... You can't
Or think you can correct them... They don't care, just getting you wound up is the goal...
Or think you can 'out' them... That's just more attention for them and notoriety

There is one and only one course of action - do not respond to the baiting. Do not feed the trolls

Advice taken. Ignore utilized. Headache easing.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

One of my wife's friends just returned from WDW and she and her husband are big fans. She then rattled off what seemed to be an endless list of major problems that she saw and that they weren't nitpicking, so to speak, trying to find any. She said that the Ursula AA was spraying out hydraulic fluid, the Ariel audio-animatronic that moves us and down was stuck, and several AA's were simply out of commission in the brand new Little Mermaid ride. She was left unimpressed by the Be Our Guest dining and saw trash all over the place.

Tom Staggs reads: "so these big fans, who are perfectly aware there is an endless list of major issues, returned to WDW anyway. Great, we're winning."

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'm sure it was. KingEric rode this again because he mentioned wanting to snap pictures of the moldy conditions in the ride. I didn't expect to see this though. The original post is here-
http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disney-world-resort/176596-moldy-malestrom-4.html#post1056883768

That's not even to mention the horribly moldy parts of the ride, looks like the show building might have some roof leakage problems or something. It's even starting to damage the beautiful mural at the load area. The three headed troll also apparently doesn't move anymore besides a slight jerking of the head. The entire ride looks like a complete filthy mess, just shameful.

KingEric mentioned that piece of scenery was burned away. Was that the case?

Why should WDW invest in maintaining Maelstroom?

Better to invest in yet another restaurant in WS. Morocco's lakeside. Once again one next to the lagoon, to increase water frontage that can be sold to guests as part of a special package.

This is apparantly what the guests want. Why would TDO be in the theme park business of offering expensive rides to people running from ride to ride - when you ride you can't simultaneously spend - when it can fill the parks with fat ECV drivers who do two restaurants, three snacks and eleven drinks during their round of the WS lagoon?

We have sixty pages of people applauding TDO for opening a Starbucks on Main Street, which is infinitely longer than this thread will ever be. The message from fans is loud and clear.

 

[hsisthebest]

Just got back from 9 days in the World. Had a total blast and the KIDS loved it. WDW is totally geared to kids and in that respect I take issue with several of Kevin's grievances.
1st- that the price of anything (tickets, food, lodging, private events) is to high- that's silly and wrong, as long as there is a customer base willing to pay (i.e. me and tens of thousands of others) then the product is not overpriced. I am happy to shell out extra money for resort rooms, the convenience of food and WDW buses is well worth it because I have 3 small kids. Same thing with private ticket events- most MVMCP have been sold out in Dec.I remember when EMH at night were an extra fee and I loved it because the lines were really short and often DW and I were close to the only ones left at FW some nights- well worth the money if I want to spend it.

2nd- Ride conditions/maintenance- once again I am focused on my kids' experience and whether they are having a good time. I took DD (4yrs.) on Splash for the first time, it was so much fun and there is still so much working on the ride it was great. ToT looks as good as it did 13 yrs. again when I rode it for the 1st time. The only problem I saw that actually bothered me was the tarps on Splash. And Backlot tour- what the heck is up with the Backlot tour. Anything you all say about that ride I'll agree with.

3rd - park hours- they were just fine for us, again small kids can't stay out all night. Plus I seem to recall several times over the summer/fall when operating hours were extended on several nights.

4th- fastpass- Kevin cannot possibly have children or he would never besmirch the wonderful joy that is fastpass. With kids that need to potty, eat, diaper change constantly, etc., being able to walk on popular rides is priceless. I can't wait for fastpass plus so I can pre-reserve wait times- this was the second trip where Toy Story Mania was not an option- we just can't get the kids to HS in time to get a regular fastpass.

To give an overall assessment I would just say that Disney have been catering more and more to families, especially those with small kids. Why? Because we spend more money. Every time the 6 of us ate, slept (AoA), or bought merchandise, we spent more money than a teens/adults looking to go on rides constantly.

The New Fantasy land is great- and geared toward little kids. We loved Mermaid and the whole circus area. I was blown away by the magnitude of the Seven Dwarfs mine coaster and will definitely be back shortly after it opens. With another baby in tow.

With fastpass+ in hand.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The issue, as many have pointed out already, is short-term thinking vs. long-term. Instead of looking at an investment directly and asking how much it specifially will return, one should be asking how the investment will strengthen the overall value of the brand and the property. This apparantly is how companies like Google and Apple (and Disney many years ago) have succeeded. They didn't look at each individual investment in terms of specific ROI so much as they looked at them as a means to strengthen the value of the brand. I'm not a business expert so I'm relying on information I've read from books such as "A Passion for Excellence" and simple common sense when it comes to Apple and Google. The theme park business however I do know!

For example the Test Track budget went though its normal budget cuts and we ended up with a stripped down rehab that only barely makes the grade. Sure there is some eye candy and the ride will be enjoyable for some and it is arguably better than the orginal Test Track (which isn't saying much at all in my opinion). What if instead, for once in the past 15 years, WDW decided to give us a $250 million blockbuster? In comparison to today's Test Track what would be the guest response? What would be the long-term result? Would more guests' word-of-mouth be something like, "wow!!! You really need to go to Epcot and check out the new Test Track..I mean I really felt like I was in another world...It was AMAZING!!??" That as opposed to an attraction that will be popular for a few years rather than a classic such as Pirates or Mansion that will be enjoyed by million for years to come.

My point is the person that brought up the argument regarding guest perception is spot on. He pointed out that while a guest may not be able to put his or her finger on the reason they are not 100% satisfied with an experience they still know that the experience could have been better. That's the difference between a low-budget upgrade and a "Cars Land" spectacular. Walking through Radiator Springs and being surrounded by high quality scenery invokes a positive emotion and thereby strengthens the possiblity that more guests will return and spend more money. This should be common sense but they don't teach that in business school.

Where are the long-term thinkers in the Disney company? Sure you can save $100 million in the short-term by giving the public a watered down version of Fantasyland but the price will be customers that leave indifferent, not excited or inspired. Indifferent customers don't complain but they don't recommend that experience voluntarily either. They also don't go out of their way to come back. WDW is in the business of emotional experiences whether they want to admit it or not. There are many ways to illicit that emotion and most of the methods require spending money on the right things. How about going back to spending on the core business again?

Universal, despite all the wonderful things happening now, is not at all immune from this poisonous thinking. Trust me when I say Creative Studios is a mess! If it weren't for J.K. and Warner Brothers Potter phase one would have ended up quite mediocre and Potter Phase two would possibly be worse. The only reason Phase two will be freakin AMAZING is solely because of J.K. and WB in spite of UC. Here's one example for you: recently all the video servers and associated hardware had been designed and ordered and equipment delivered for the Hogwarts Express. Millions of dollars in equipment and design labor. Before all this UC management was asked if they wanted the show critical video to be 30 frames per second or 60 frames per second. To save money they of course went with the 30 frames against the strong recommendations from designers. The difference in quality is huge! When J.K. found out about it she insisted they go to the 60. So now hundreds of thousands more will be spent to redesign and reorder and even more to upgrade equipment. That's the kind of quality control going on there...something that WDW does not have and something that will put Universal on top in terms of immersive experiences in Orlando. Yes they'll go over budget but it will pay off for them and their brand will strengthen. Now let's compare Per Capita spending and attendance increase percentages of the two companies. Hello Disney is anyone there?

Yes...

...but, that's the designer's perspective. The designer always wants more money to realise ever more ambitious dreams. There is no limit.
Everybody loves to spend his time devising up awesome rides. Browsing the glossy brochures of show equipment companies. But as these go, there is no limit to the amount of money one can spend on them. One can spend a milion dollar on a home audio system alone, never mind on a alrge-scale theatrical audio set-up.

There has to be budgetary control. This works twofold: to guard over the budget, period. And to make sure that the budget is spend evenly, that is, for example, that not twelve million is spend on audio alone for a twenty million ride. That would leave lipstick on a pig - which nevertheless every desinger of every show aspect would happily do if given the chance. Which lighting engineer couldn't do much more 'if only they would've given me a proper budget...'

The whole of EPCOT was build with severe time and budgetary restraints. Horizons was the cliff-notes version of what was planned. But great design is not 'dreamig up the greatest design imaginable', but accepting budgetary constraints and then conjuring up a killer design within those limitations. The budget of Horizons was severly cut, the ride shortened. Still, the designers played the hand they were dealt and gave the best they could within the limitations they were set.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Yes, WDW is now Legoland on steroids. Unfortunately for Disney I am not a toddler.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Just got back from 9 days in the World. Had a total blast and the KIDS loved it. WDW is totally geared to kids and in that respect I take issue with several of Kevin's grievances.

WDW is not totally geared to kids. It is geared towards families, geared towards letting people of all ages have a blast together.

Sadly, it is because people mistake WDW for a kiddie amusement centre, that it is slowly being turned into one. With all detrimental effects that brings about, such as lower standards, disrespecting the intelligence of guests, and infantilising the entire experience.

WDW was once about dining on elegant paddlewheel boats, about inspiritional edutainment in EPCOT, about mature sophisticated offerings in the MK.
Nowadays, WDW parks are about clowns performing for half-naked kids being squirted water at by cartoon monkeys.


Kevin does have kids. (not private information, these kids have been publicly written about in the same column that is the subject of this thread)

 

[Captain Chaos]

Isn't it amazing how we have had some peaceful months of no jt04, no wannab@dis and no Jimmy Thick. Then within a week all 3 are back?

Coincidence and commission what is the difference?

Winter break??? Ah wish the kids would lose their internet access... So peaceful and quiet without the nonsense...

But, then again, TDO got wind of this thread and sent their brainless apes (plants) to derail a once again negative thread...

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Kudos to J.K. for keeping tight control of her creation and its offshoots. She's doing what Walt used to do with his entire company. But that was the thing with Walt...he was the creative side, while his brother Roy was the economic side, of the Walt Disney Company (or Walt Disney Productions, as I think it used to be called in those days). The current WDC is made up of all Roys and no Walts, it seems to me. I used to hope that John Lasseter would somehow fill the giant void left by Walt's death...but it hasn't worked out that way, at least not to the extent I had hoped. Or maybe I'm giving Lasseter too much credit?

An excllent post. As a big fan of Roy, allow me to add an amendment.

There is a creative aspect to Roy-o-neering the parks. Let's say there is a demand for, and an allocated budget, for a $30 million ride. The creatives come to Roy. Sound wants ten million, lighting wants ten, props wants ten, show building wants ten, ride infrastructure wants ten, costumes wants ten, and operations wants ten million for staff training too. That's demand for seventy million. Roy has to make the call who gets what. Does he give lighting six, ride props three, and ride infrastructure ten million? That would leave a very different product than lighting ten, ride props one, and ride infrastructure three million.

Controlling the budget is very much a creative enterprise. Roy as much as Walt creates the creative content.