just back, etiquette questions

[mikewdw]

just wanted some opinions on a couple of incidents from our trip last week.
1.) wife asked a couple sitting on a planter wall (in Liberty Square just down from the Hall of Presidents) if they were saving the spots in front of them for anyone for the upcoming parade, the man (with an attitude!) explained that they would put up post and rope to mark parade route and no one would be allowed to sit there. she of course knew he was wrong, she said "so then you're not saving it for anyone then" he then said no, they were hoping for a "front row seat". my wife sat down with our kids. they then began signing to each other (seemingly to talk about us) and giving our family those kind of looks even though my wife sat with our 3 children on the ground in front of them with enough space that later another row of people sat behind us and in front of them. to me, it us unbelivable that someone would think they could claim all of the space in front of their spot like that.
2.) bus etiquette, crowded bus going back to bus on hot afternoon. as we go toward back of bus, bus spiel over speakers is saying "please make room for elderly, small children, etc" we have 3 kids, DD 6, twin DS 4. seats are already taken. no one offers a seat. our kids are trying to hold on to rail and legs. my wife looks at me and says "i am soooooo aggravated" a woman realized our situation and offers her seat and so does a guy. but amazingly a college age looking guy (sitting between what appears to be his parents) completely ignores the kids as does his father. i know sometimes when you get on the bus you're so tired you don't notice others but when you see a woman offer her seat you would think a young man would move to help also. not only did he not offer the lady her seat, he also never offered for one of our kids (two of which were sharing the ladies seat). we went numerous times before we had kids, so if i ever did that to someone i apologize (although i dont think i did, my wife would kick me in the behind for that) but it just amazes me how some men will just ignore women standing like that (much less children). i ended up facing the back of the bus and the father of the college boy never made eye contact the entire ride. he looked everywhere else on the bus, out the windows, etc but never looked at me or my wife who still had to stand.
i live in a small rural area town so i am not used to crowded situations. am i being unreasonable here or am i right and the people just refused to live up to courteous standards?
luckily these were the only things i could find wrong with our trip. had a great trip otherwise!!!!!
mikewdw

 

[SleepingMonk]

I'll gladly offer my seat to any lady and/or the elderly regardless of gender.

Kids?

Sorry, I'm keeping my seat.

 

[Hakunamatata]

We just got back as well. Saw the same thing happening. Generaly the younger generation that would sit there and not offer a seat to someone who could really use it. For the most part, I never sat. Stood the majority of the time.

 

[mikewdw]

sleeping monk
so you would not offer your seat to a small child and leave them standing, trying to hold on to a rail in a crowded bus?

 

[SleepingMonk]

sleeping monk
so you would not offer your seat to a small child and leave them standing, trying to hold on to a rail in a crowded bus?

Is the small child riding all alone?

No?

The parents can secure the little bundle of joy, if not they should have made other plans.

I never expected anyone to stand so my child could sit. In fact I would never allow such a thing.

 

[mikewdw]

i am surprised somewhat at the attitude about children. small children do have a difficult time balancing on a bus like that. that was my concern for our kids.
as for our particular situation we actually thought we would get a seat or we wouldnt have gotten on the bus. my wife was actually the first person to not get a seat. we waited numerous other times as a PP said in order to make sure we got a seat (which we will always do from here on out). she also did not in any way expect a seat (the offer would have be nice but not expected). it was ironic to me that the bus recorded announcements mentioned offering seats to children just as we began trying to juggle two strollers, back packs, and 3 small children and no one offered a seat. i also understand that those men might have some difficulty that was not evident. but statistically the chance is probably really, really, really small that someone with a condition (so severe that it would force them to physically not be able to offer at seat to a child) would have made it in that heat until 2 or 3 in the afternoon before going back to rest.
i know you're not guaranteed a seat, you don't have to take that bus, that they paid just as much for their tickets as we did for our kids, etc, etc, i am just surprised by the fact that people wouldnt be more helpful. i know people have different standards etc but i still think the old fashioned way is better. i normally find DisneyWorld to be the place that brings out the best in people and i am always surprised there when it doesnt. hopefully when it's your kids who don't have a seat, maybe someone who read this post will think about it and offer your kids a seat.
thanks for the opinions,
mikewdw

 

[mickey2008.1]

i have four kids. the eldest being 12, the youngest 4. if my kids are over age 6, they have to stand on the bus if others, meaning younger children, expectant mothers, or seniors are on the bus. but if its just someone like me, they have every right to a seat.

 

[the-reason14]

I can recall only one time where I've given up my seat. But for the most part, I rarely stand up on busses. We usually calculate it to where we know for sure we will have a seat, but when I sit down I stay seated until the bus reaches its destination.

 

[raven]

WDW is full of guests from all over the world from all cultures. While we expect people to always be curtious, reality kicks you in the face and you have to realize that not all people are.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

just wanted some opinions on a couple of incidents from our trip last week.
1.) wife asked a couple sitting on a planter wall (in Liberty Square just down from the Hall of Presidents) if they were saving the spots in front of them for anyone for the upcoming parade, the man (with an attitude!) explained that they would put up post and rope to mark parade route and no one would be allowed to sit there. she of course knew he was wrong, she said "so then you're not saving it for anyone then" he then said no, they were hoping for a "front row seat". my wife sat down with our kids. they then began signing to each other (seemingly to talk about us) and giving our family those kind of looks even though my wife sat with our 3 children on the ground in front of them with enough space that later another row of people sat behind us and in front of them. to me, it us unbelivable that someone would think they could claim all of the space in front of their spot like that.
2.) bus etiquette, crowded bus going back to bus on hot afternoon. as we go toward back of bus, bus spiel over speakers is saying "please make room for elderly, small children, etc" we have 3 kids, DD 6, twin DS 4. seats are already taken. no one offers a seat. our kids are trying to hold on to rail and legs. my wife looks at me and says "i am soooooo aggravated" a woman realized our situation and offers her seat and so does a guy. but amazingly a college age looking guy (sitting between what appears to be his parents) completely ignores the kids as does his father. i know sometimes when you get on the bus you're so tired you don't notice others but when you see a woman offer her seat you would think a young man would move to help also. not only did he not offer the lady her seat, he also never offered for one of our kids (two of which were sharing the ladies seat). we went numerous times before we had kids, so if i ever did that to someone i apologize (although i dont think i did, my wife would kick me in the behind for that) but it just amazes me how some men will just ignore women standing like that (much less children). i ended up facing the back of the bus and the father of the college boy never made eye contact the entire ride. he looked everywhere else on the bus, out the windows, etc but never looked at me or my wife who still had to stand.
i live in a small rural area town so i am not used to crowded situations. am i being unreasonable here or am i right and the people just refused to live up to courteous standards?
luckily these were the only things i could find wrong with our trip. had a great trip otherwise!!!!!
mikewdw

Where in Alabama do ya live? My folks & in-laws live in Monroeville. We'll be spending a bunch of time there this summer. All my dad's family are from Evergreen. I'm really, really familiar with small, southern towns. I think that's the problem or difference in perspective. You and I still not only believe in good ol' fashioned gentlemanly courtesy, we live it. I bet your children say "Yes Sir", "No Sir", "Yes Ma'am", & "No Ma'am" to complete strangers, too. And your friends Bob & Emily are probably known as "Mister Bob" or "Miss Emily" unless those particular people told 'em otherwise. These things we don't think so much about just don't exist so much for the majority of the rest of the world.

My boys are 12 & 14. They've been to WDW 8 times since they were 6 & 7 years old. They both have watched their dad over the years and offer to give up their seats almost every time a bus is packed with standing folks. More often than not, if a bus is full of standing people they do get up and offer for children or ladies or elderly people to take their seats. At least a few times when they were smaller they've squeezed other small kids in with them.

It's not the whole world going to h-e-double-hockey-sticks in a self-absorbed handbasket, darlin'. LOL!

Is the small child riding all alone?

No?

The parents can secure the little bundle of joy, if not they should have made other plans.

I never expected anyone to stand so my child could sit. In fact I would never allow such a thing.

If a parent is standing holding onto a handrail to keep from falling all over you & everyone else how are they holding onto small children, too? The small children are not tall enough to hold onto the handrails overhead. If they happen to be in between the post rails, they have nothing but Mom & Dad's moving legs. It's not like you're giving away your kidney. It's a seat. It's a child. It's not that much of a sacrifice to ensure the safety of a child....especially if, God forbid, there's an accident. Remember, the hand you offer to help someone might well be the hand you need to help you or your loved ones someday. :wave:

 

[Rob562]

I don't usually jump into discussions like this, but I thought I'd put my couple a cents in, for some reason... (probably because I should really be in bed right now and the sleepiness is clouding my judgement)


In most situations on the Disney buses (and on the subway at home), I take an "everyone is created equal" stance. Whether an able-bodied person gets a seat or not (regardless of being a man or a woman) is determined purely by chance, the order of entering the bus/subway car.

Of course, I will be the first to offer my seat to someone who really should sit during the bus ride, including the elderly, young children (under 7-8 years of age), or anyone else who noticably might have issues standing while the vehicle is in motion (pregnant, cast on their leg, otherwise "infirm", etc etc).

But in the theoretcial situation of a bus full of only able-bodied adults, where some people have to stand, having men give up their seats so all the women can sit would be, in my opinion, a pretty old-fashioned (and not in the good way), sexist way of thinking. (And while you may not personally think of it this way, the practice of giving up your seat is rooted in the thinking that women are less-capable and unable to fend for themselves).


In a related topic, I've seen many times on the crowded buses a parent being very courteous to others and having their young children sit on their laps, freeing up another seat or two for more people to sit.
(Of course then you get the total other end of the spectrum, and you have people who haul in their Escalade-sized stroller and take up two seats with it...)

OK, I've said my piece, now I'll slink away to the non-controversial threads...

-Rob

 

[Flower'sChild]

At lot of times when I can see that all the bus seats are taken I will just wait for the next bus. When I get a seat on the bus I never give it up to anyone just because they are a child or a woman or a man.

 

[John]

"But in the theoretcial situation of a bus full of only able-bodied adults, where some people have to stand, having men give up their seats so all the women can sit would be, in my opinion, a pretty old-fashioned (and not in the good way), sexist way of thinking. (And while you may not personally think of it this way, the practice of giving up your seat is rooted in the thinking that women are less-capable and unable to fend for themselves)."

I call it being a gentleman....If its considered being sexist etc. I am guilty as charged....So if I offer my seat to a woman when I am am on my trip next week. I apoligize now to anyone who maybe offended. Sorry, thats the way I was raised. So if your wife,mother,sister is on the bus with me, you can be sure she can have my seat. Also, I will hold the door for her and pull her chair out. To not do so, would be disrespectful to my parents.

 

[wishesjake]

"But in the theoretcial situation of a bus full of only able-bodied adults, where some people have to stand, having men give up their seats so all the women can sit would be, in my opinion, a pretty old-fashioned (and not in the good way), sexist way of thinking. (And while you may not personally think of it this way, the practice of giving up your seat is rooted in the thinking that women are less-capable and unable to fend for themselves)."

I call it being a gentleman....If its considered being sexist etc. I am guilty as charged....So if I offer my seat to a woman when I am am on my trip next week. I apoligize now to anyone who maybe offended. Sorry, thats the way I was raised. So if your wife,mother,sister is on the bus with me, you can be sure she can have my seat. Also, I will hold the door for her and pull her chair out. To not do so, would be disrespectful to my parents.

So, to you, being a gentleman is treating a woman like she is weak? Also, it would disrespect your parents to do something they disapproved of?

 

[Philo]

Couple of things which are important here:

Firstly, I hope that everyone would get up and offer their seat to someone else if they NEEDED it. In this case, 'needing' means that they are unable to stand or it is dangerous for them to stand.

Secondly, because someone doesn't offer their seat, it doesn't mean that they are rude. They could well remain seating because they can't stand (e.g. anything from a disability through to a particularly badly sprained ankle). Sometimes you just can't tell.

In terms of kids, I often offer my seat to young kids but, without wishing to sound too rude, most kids are able to stand on the bus perfectly safely. I wouldn't expect a toddler to do this or any child which is clearly unstable on their feet but a 5 year old would probably be fine.

 

[dave&di]

Wow what a can of worms!! Firstly people should not save seats/spaces for people at the parks, if they can't put the effort in to turn up in advance like the rest of us, then tough. Why should I stand waiting for a parade for 1 hour and then people turn up 10 minutes before the parade and join their friends in the front row??? It gets me soooo mad!

Next, buses - this is a dodgy one. I can't comment on WDW buses really as when I go in Sept overcrowding isn't really a problem. But at home (London), buses are a nightmare, especially in London. I would give up my seat for the elderly and disabled, definately, but even then I would be looking around to see who should give up their seat before me, I'm a 33 year old woman, I would expect any man, or teenager (male or female) to give up their seat before me. I work a 9 hour day in a very physical job, I also suffer from panic attacks who can also make me feel claustaphobic (don't I sound like a barrel of laughs!!!) so if I had to stand up on a busy bus standing shoulder to shoulder I would have to get off the bus.

Basically, yes, give up seats for the elderly, disabled and pregnant women (only heavy pregnant!!! - joking!!!). Children? Debatable, a woman struggling with several toddlers, fair enough. But I was taught to respect my elders, I would not have expected an adult to give me their seat when I was a child. I used to find it fun standing on a bus holding on and being slightly swung around!! Just me??? Tell your children the bus is a thrill ride!!! Obviously if I could see a family were struggling I would give up my seat. Someone shut me up now!!!:hammer:

 

[ShadyLady]

Just back too

We also just got back Saturday and we experienced people getting up on the monorail so my son 8 & daughter 4 could sit, and also on the boat from Boardwalk to Epcot, a man got up to let my husband sit who was holding my sleeping daughter.

We go to WDW every year and I found a few incidinces this year of unprofessional cast member behavior. In HS Animation character greetings, there was acually a CM badmouthing their boss to another CM. You could tell it made the listener uncomfortable.

TWICE, my husband waited in a line for 30 mins after the first CM cleared my son for height, and was turned away by the final height check in AK and on Rock N Roll. Of course, my husband was upset for wasting time after checking with first CM. He said the CM's were indifferent to him, like they could care less.

Also, this year we watched the light parade from a deck and some GRUMPY old people were yelling at a little girl for standing in front of them. Her parents were so upset, so we let her come stand with us and they were so grateful.

I dont know if it was the heat or what, but I think Disney is about the kids first, and I think a lot of people forget that.

 

[kirinan]

So, to you, being a gentleman is treating a woman like she is weak? Also, it would disrespect your parents to do something they disapproved of?

As a woman, it would never occur to me to think that a man offering me a seat, holding a door open for me, pulling out a chair, etc. is treating me like I'm weak. It's simply a nice gesture that I appreciate, even if I decline the offer of his seat--with thanks--because I'm comfortable enough standing. It's simple courtesy and human kindness, which I think is sorely lacking in our society these days.

And as a woman, I'd do the same for anyone who appears to need it, adult or child. I've held doors open for men, and have offered them my seat on a bus. My parents taught me it's just what you do, no matter what your gender.

 

[techiegsy]

On the buses front; Well, I think it is, as philo said, a case of necessity. If this person needs it then you should give it up if you are not higher in the "pecking order". Basically, The elderly, the disabled or those who have trouble standing on a bus should be sitting whenever possible. But children is a trickey one, I tend to only use the Disney buses in the early morning, at park closing, and around mid-day and 3 (taking a break at the hotel). So I only seem to experience big crowds on the late way back. In the morning, an excitable child, who will not stay in their seat, will not warrant me getting up. But a 7 - 8 year old or below who has spent a day at a park and has probably been doing a lot of running will. I'm often not as weary due to the break and can survive standing the journey. But I do enjoy those buses for the breaks, I have often had interesting conversation with people also following The Unofficial Guide's advice, or Disney fanatics, I have even ended up going round the park with them for a while! As to women, If they look as physically fit as myself, then probably not. And door wise and the like, that common manners, I don't care what gender you are, if you are coming through the door at the same time I will wave you through and hold it open, it's what I've always done...

My most interesting experience on a bus was on the way back from DHS after the late showing of Fant! (the first was rained off) and we got to the bus stop and were at the front, by now I was pretty tired so was glad to know I had a seat. Anyway, we went and sat down at the back of the bus and waited for it to fill, this 30 - 40 year old woman sits next to me and her family follows (husband and 16ish daughter). She looks around and at her daughter and after we get moving offers her seat to her daughter and promptly starts complaining that she just had to give up HER seat so her daughter could sit down, no mention of any physical impediment (if she did I would have). Now everyone was looking at each other because they were capable of standing the whole way. So at this point I give up listening to her moaning and start listening to my iPod. And then, before I know it when the bus stops, pretty unjerkingly she flings herself at great pelt, a very obviously fake stumble. So I just keep sitting for the rest of the ride. It was a very odd trip back...

 

[woodardfamily]

Reading this thread surely makes my $14 in parking very well spent. Buses? No, thanks.