Jungle Cruise Update

[SuddenStorm]

To be real, things were so knew that I was kind of lying. I probably would have taken my sister or something. Anyway she actually took me!

I feel like that's the kind of secret you take with you to the grave.

Amazing story by the way.

 

[TP2000]

Florida definitely does a better job telling the story- but there's a delightful charm in the way Disneyland's Splash Mountain is staged. It's a bizarre mishmash of figures that weren't designed for the ride, and staging that had to be reconfigured late into the ride's construction in an attempt to fix it. And somehow, it works. It's like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride but huge. Or the Jungle Cruise, but thrilling and with music. And the soundtrack in Anaheim is absolutely delightful- far more then the twangy banjo Florida got stuck with.

Yes, if we're looking at things from a purely 'by the book' standpoint Florida's is the better designed attraction.

But I'm still going to choose to take offense by your comment.

Don't worry, I have grown to love the Disneyland version for all its flaws. But in the early 1990's, before your parents even started dating, I honestly had no idea what the heck was going on in that singing chicken log ride Disneyland just built.

Now that I think about it, it was when I went on the Tokyo version in the early 2000's that the plotline really crystallized for me. The Tokyo version is several huge leaps ahead of the WDW version, especially because Tokyo does such a vastly superior job on maintenance and upkeep compared to WDW.

But only when I rode the WDW version for the first time did I realize there was some sort of a plot to that thing.

 

[mickEblu]

I feel like that's the kind of secret you take with you to the grave.

Amazing story by the way.

LOL no I’ve told her actually. Kind of half joking but I think she knows.


EDIT: @SuddenStorm actually she brought it up saying that I wouldn’t of taken if her amd I didn’t deny it. I think I told her she was wrong but IN a way where I was really saying she was right

 

[SuddenStorm]

Don't worry, I have grown to love the Disneyland version for all its flaws. But in the early 1990's, before your parents even started dating, I honestly had no idea what the heck was going on in that singing chicken log ride Disneyland just built.

Now that I think about it, it was when I went on the Tokyo version in the early 2000's that the plotline really crystallized for me. The Tokyo version is several huge leaps ahead of the WDW version, especially because Tokyo does such a vastly superior job on maintenance and upkeep compared to WDW.

But only when I rode the WDW version for the first time did I realize there was some sort of a plot to that thing.

I've been strongly considering making a trip out to Tokyo in a year or two when International travel is more feasible. At this rate in a few years it'll have more of what I love about Disneyland then Disneyland- a well maintained Mansion, Splash Mountain, Tiki Room. And I'd love to see the Country Bear show.

 

[mickEblu]

I've been strongly considering making a trip out to Tokyo in a year or two when International travel is more feasible. At this rate in a few years it'll have more of what I love about Disneyland then Disneyland- a well maintained Mansion, Splash Mountain, Tiki Room. And I'd love to see the Country Bear show.

But that dumbo though! Lol and it’s next to the Haunted Mansion too

 

[Californian Elitist]

Hahah yeah it was pretty cool. Then as I was pursuing my career in music I ended up meeting a producer who became a friend of mine. Anyway, this producer was a good friend of Michael’s and was going to take me to meet him one day. Like it was going down. Then June 2009 happened.

Coincidentally I met my now wife, earlier that year and we instantly bonded on 3 common strong interests of ours... the Lakers, Disneyland and Michael Jackson. After he passed, we were both doing anything we could to get to the memorial. We also entered the lottery they were doing to get tickets but both missed out. Out of the blue, one of my wife’s old friends from high school, who she hadn’t talked to in years calls her. She had 2 tickets but couldn’t go. She had also asked 4 other people, who also could not go. She remembered how big a Mj fan my wife was so she called her. We were stunned. My wife (gf then) and I had made a pact that if she won the tickets I’d take her and vice Versa. To be real, things were so knew that I was kind of lying. I probably would have taken my sister or something. Anyway she actually took me! Then came the day to pick up the tickets from Dodger Stadium. They were either going to be tickets for Staples or the Nokia center across the street where you watch on a large screen. We lucked out again and got Staples! We were able to be there live and it was a really Beautiful service. It was amazing how respectful everyone was. Still so mad that I never got to see him live. My wife went to see him during the Bad Tour in LA as a little girl.

Well now I have to meet your wife! I hope she comes on our Miserable field trip, whenever that happens lol. I remember trying so hard to get tickets to the service. You’re very fortunate to have been able to go!

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I've been strongly considering making a trip out to Tokyo in a year or two when International travel is more feasible. At this rate in a few years it'll have more of what I love about Disneyland then Disneyland- a well maintained Mansion, Splash Mountain, Tiki Room. And I'd love to see the Country Bear show.

I would like to visit Tokyo for the same reason.

The more I think about this: I’m holding out hope that the tactful/surgical approach WDI is taking to Jungle Cruise (and to some extent Pirates, even though Redd’s execution should really be revisited) means that at least any changes to Mansion and Tiki Room are at most in the spirit of tasteful restructuring vs a wholesale removal/replacement. But I’ll be honest, I’m fretting/anticipating the latter.

 

[DanielBB8]

It's obvious you have no idea how exhausting it is to have to explain and justify your feelings to white people over and over and over, even on a Disneyland discussion board. No idea. It's probably best you stick to things you understand, none of which includes me and my experiences as an African American.

They’ve made it clear they’re not interested in educating themselves, thus the cycle will continue.

And you know why white people have this “script,” right? You understand why white people should be there to listen and not come back with rebuttals during something like racial bias training, yes?

Message received. Just listen. I’m not telling you anyways so figure it out yourselves. I’m tired. Go away. And just agree with me and you already know what I will say.

 

[DanielBB8]

Agreed. I'm still confused on what "representation" means exactly. But removing Africans from a ride about Africa doesn't seem like a good way to increase representation, unless we want to pretend that 1.2 Billion humans don't live on the African continent.

And that got me thinkin', which is often dangerous as my critics here so often remind me...

How many humans are represented in Disneyland via Animatronic or major Video format? Not aliens, not wild animals, not singing chickens, not even ghosts. But humans, preferably of the animatronic form since if you can get an animatronic into a Disneyland ride that means you've really made it!

Here's what I came up with;

Main Street USA - 1 Human Animatronic

• President Abraham Lincoln - White Male

Adventureland - 19 Human Animatronics

• Indiana Jones Adventure, 1 Dr. Indiana Jones - White Male
• Jungle Cruise, 16 African tribesmen - Black Males
• Jungle Cruise, 1 Trader Sam - Black Male
• Jungle Cruise, 1 Explorer/Hunter - White Male

New Orleans Square - 47 Human Animatronics/Videos (not counting ghosts, cause who knows about skeletons?!)

• Pirates of the Caribbean, 1 Banjo Player - White Male
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 29 Pirates - White Males? (it's hard to tell, but let's count 'em as all white)
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 1 Pirate - Asian Male
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 3 Fort Conquistadors - Hispanic Males
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 2 Men Villagers - Hispanic Males
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 3 Female Villagers - Hispanic/White Females
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 1 Redhead - White Female
• Pirates of the Caribbean, 3 Jack Sparrow - White Male Heroin Addict
• Haunted Mansion, Constance The Bride - White Female (video projection)
• Haunted Mansion, 3 of Constances Dead Husbands - White Males (video projection)
• Haunted Mansion, Little Constance - White Female - (hologram)

Critter Country - Zero

• No Human Animatronics

Frontierland - 13 Human Animatronics

• Rivers of America, 12 American Indians - 8 Indian Males, 4 Indian Females
• Tom Sawyer Island, 1 Pirate In The Cave - 1 White Male

Mickey's Toontown - 1 Human Animatronic

• Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin, 1 Jessica Rabbit - White Female

Tomorrowland - 2 Human Animatronics

• Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters, 1 Buzz Lightyear - White Male (in uniform)
• Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, 1 Darla Scuba Diver - White Female

Fantasyland - No Human Animatronics, But These Stories Representing Each Nation

• Alice In Wonderland - Great Britain
• Peter Pan's Flight - Great Britain
• Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - Great Britain
• Pinnochio's Daring Journey - Italy
• Snow White's Enchanted Wish - Germany
• Sleeping Beauty Castle Walk Thru - Great Britain
• Casey Jr. Circus Train - American South
• StorybookLand Canal Boats - Everything and Anything!
• Matterhorn Bobsleds - Switzerland
• Dumbo Flying Elephant - American South
• King Arthur's Carousel - Great Britain
• Mad Tea Party - Great Britain
• It's A Small World - The Entire Planet! (Except Canada, who only gets a plywood Mountie)

So let's add that up. Disneyland has...

83 Human Animatronics In Disneyland as of Pre-Closure 2020

• 38 White Males
• 17 Black Males
• 8 American Indian Males
• 6 White Females
• 5 Hispanic Males
• 4 American Indian Females
• 3 Hispanic Females
• 1 Asian Male
• 1 White Male Heroin Addict

As a reminder, per the US Census Bureau, the current demographic makeup of the United States in 2019 was...

• Non-Hispanic White = 60.1%
• Hispanic/Latino = 18.5%
• Black = 13.4%
• Asian = 5.9%
• Mixed Race = 2.8%
• American Indian/Alaskans/Hawaiians = 1.5%
• Heroin Users = 0.2%

There are human animatronics in Fantasyland. Animated humans still count like in Snow White with Evil Queen, 7 dwarfs. Gepetto and human Pinnochio in the end of ride. Tons of human characters in Mr Toad and Peter Pan. Peter Pan ride has some obvious minority characters. Jessica Rabbit in Roger Rabbit ride.

Galaxy’s Edge has Rey, Finn, Kylo throughout the attraction in multiple locations in Rise of Resistance.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

Y'know, that's actually a great idea.

I particularly like the snake and bird artwork. More so because those animals are featured in the upcoming movie. So there's IP synergy incentive to see it realized.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Both of those situations sound uncomfortable from a social etiquette perspective. They both seem like they involved people who just weren't thinking more than 1 second ahead of the next word out of their mouth.

So, particularly the grown college professor, is that a "microaggression"? And how do you differentiate between a simple faux pas or fumbled thinking out loud and actual racial prejudice?

Also, you seem to have glossed over your statement that when a white employee attends an HR Diversity session they are there because their ancestors were bad, and so they should just be quiet and not veer off script.

I almost want to go back into the corporate world to see how stifling these HR sessions have become for white folks! It would be fun to go to one knowing I didn't need the job and could just ask the HR leader "So, you're saying only white people can be prejudiced?" and see how quickly my career lasts.

Lucky for me, this is not a "Listening Session" and I am not getting paid to be here. This is a Discussion Forum where we all are free to discuss things, and no one here is my boss, and this isn't the 3rd floor conference room.

Both of those situations were examples of ignorance and yes, micro-aggressions.

I didn’t gloss over it, I responded. Again, white people ARE allowed to speak at things like racial bias trainings when they want to genuinely understand more and know how they can help. It’s specifically when anyone wants to try and deny reality, talk about their own bad experiences living as a white person, dismiss the experiences of people of color, don’t want to try and learn/listen, etc. (kinda like what you’ve been doing) that is absolutely unwelcome. Don’t speak if you have the urge to do that.

The same would go for an LGBTQ+ equivalent. If I were to attend a meeting, seminar, training, etc. regarding the LGBTQ+ community and the prejudices and issues they undoubtedly face in the workplace and outside the workplace, I as a straight woman have NO RIGHT to talk about my life as a straight woman (unless I’m acknowledging my privilege), whine and lie about how straight people have it hard too, dismiss the experiences of LGBTQ+ people, etc. I would be there to, yes, LISTEN and UNDERSTAND. The only time I would speak is when asking how I can continue being an ally and support the LGBTQ+ community and causes.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Message received. Just listen. I’m not telling you anyways so figure it out yourselves. I’m tired. Go away. And just agree with me and you already know what I will say.

Try again.

 

[DanielBB8]

Try again.

Pretty much confirmation.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I also met Janet at a party at an apartment in LA/ Willshire corridor and she was absolutely beautiful in person.

I AM SO JEALOUS!!

 

[Snow Queen]

I was talking about your HR sessions where you discuss race with the employees you supervise and work with.

When that happens in the conference room once per year, every white person at your work knows exactly what to do. We clam up, we stay mostly silent, we nod along in agreement. We might eek out a few rehearsed lines like "I believe diversity is our strength!" or "It's really important that the word inclusion is in our mission statement". Younger folks might be able to muster up something more stylish like "I'm here to listen, not talk." and then go silent for another 20 minutes to help their career.

Otherwise, we sit and nod and try not to breathe the wrong word or the wrong sentiment, lest we lose our jobs. It's important to know that the white people in the workplace are not hateful racists and not bad people, but they know the wrong word used or the mistake of not saying the right slogan can get them branded as a problem employee and someone to watch. It's a script all white people know to follow in the workplace.

This thread is not the workplace. You are a boss, but you are not my boss, and I am not getting paid to be here. So I didn't have to stick to the strict HR script white folks often have to obey when they are at work.

Is the script titled "Not Ignoring the Experiences of Racial Minorities by Talking About Yourself"? There's a lesson people are supposed to learn as adolescents. The world doesn't revolve around you. Sometimes it's not about you, sometimes it's about other people. Now, I say this as the whitest person. If I stand too still in a snow storm, I'm reported missing. Not everyone is being insincere about caring just because you apparently are.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This post epitomizes why a Disneyland discussion board, one with apparently only two active black people in it, is the last place to have a substantive conversation about this subject. It's not the job of black people to explain American imperialism, systemic white supremacy or racism to you. Educate yourself. Go do some research. Listen and learn why people feel they way they do about these things. Please.

Lol in all seriousness, it does appear that age sometimes has to do with what we’re seeing in this thread. Those older in age sometimes aren’t all the way caught up with societal changes.

But peppering comments with racism and misogyny makes them colorfully delightful and folksy, and it’s totally okay if you are pretending to be old.

 

[CaptinEO]

Hahah yeah it was pretty cool. Then as I was pursuing my career in music I ended up meeting a producer who became a friend of mine. Anyway, this producer was a good friend of Michael’s and was going to take me to meet him one day. Like it was going down. Then June 2009 happened.

Coincidentally I met my now wife, earlier that year and we instantly bonded on 3 common strong interests of ours... the Lakers, Disneyland and Michael Jackson. After he passed, we were both doing anything we could to get to the memorial. We also entered the lottery they were doing to get tickets but both missed out. Out of the blue, one of my wife’s old friends from high school, who she hadn’t talked to in years calls her. She had 2 tickets but couldn’t go. She had also asked 4 other people, who also could not go. She remembered how big a Mj fan my wife was so she called her. We were stunned. My wife (gf then) and I had made a pact that if she won the tickets I’d take her and vice Versa. To be real, things were so new that I was kind of lying. I probably would have taken my sister or something. Anyway she actually took me! Then came the day to pick up the tickets from Dodger Stadium. They were either going to be tickets for Staples or the Nokia center across the street where you watch on a large screen. We lucked out again and got Staples! We were able to be there live and it was a really Beautiful service. It was amazing how respectful everyone was. Still so mad that I never got to see him live. My wife went to see him during the Bad Tour in LA as a little girl.

Michael is the best. His music is in my head every day. Disney really needs to bring back Captain EO and honor him as well as African Americans.

It's disrespectful that rumors about him remove his film, while rumors about Johnny Depp have no consequences.

I mean Disney literally has an attraction ready to go with one of the most iconic african americans in history, but show movie advertisements instead yet preach about how diverse they are ...

 

[SuddenStorm]

Michael is the best. His music is in my head every day. Disney really needs to bring back Captain EO and honor him as well as African Americans.

It's disrespectful that rumors about him remove his film, while rumors about Johnny Depp have no consequences.

I mean Disney literally has an attraction ready to go with one of the most iconic african americans in history, but show movie advertisements instead yet preach about how diverse they are ...

Bringing Eo back would be huge! Same with the Whoopi Goldberg California movie.

 

[Brer Panther]

There are human animatronics in Fantasyland. Tons of human characters in Mr Toad and Peter Pan.

Aren't all the humans in Mr. Toad technically plywood cutouts as opposed to audio-animatronics?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Pretty much confirmation.

If that's what you'd like to believe, then sure.