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Jungle Cruise Update

Sharon&Susan

Well-Known Member
It's sad that Tomorrowland is currently the worst land at both US Magic Kingdoms when it comes to having diversity other than having some of the minority Star Wars characters making cameos on Star Tours. But I guess adding more diversity would require looking past the newest Pixar and Star Wars movies as source material for Tomorrowland.

Also:
Emily B..jpg
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I agree. I guess what rubs me the wrong way was how Disney put out a press release calling its own historical work "negative". Talk about throwing Marc Davis and Walt Disney and a hundred other Imagineers under the bus!

That was poor form on Disney's part. Really quite tacky and hurtful, if you ask me. Especially because most of the Imagineers who did that work out of pure love are now dead, and can't respond to that criticism. :(

Bingo! These legends who's work has defined pop culture for generations through Disneyland and their animated films reputation is now being tarnished, when it didn't need to be.

There's a million ways to announce attraction changes, and they could have done it without once mentioning a need to erase stereotypes in the iteration of the attraction generations have loved. And without referencing the attractions as 'negative'.

At least in theme parks there aren't credits- most guests have no idea that Marc Davis added many of those vignettes in the '60s or who Blaine Gibson is. So really the only person who's legacy could be meaningfully tarnished in the realm of public opinion is Walt Disney- and I'm curious if Disney's PR team has a strategy to counter that if someone on Twitter puts 2 and 2 together and realizes it was Walt who greenlit Song of the South, Tiki Room, Jungle...
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I can't remember the last time I had a good, memorable skipper. It's been YEARS. Teach them how to do it well, and let them improvise!


So are you saying that all Real Africans are just like the people from the Jungle Cruise?
But as I said, respresentation matters. They may be Africans in story, but if you are an African American visiting the park, you don't see that many people/characters/animatronics etc. that look like you. If the ones you do see are made to look like buffoons, is that good?

Representation matters.

So when we talk about the great history of America that's represented in Disneyland that's all well and good, but when it's about hundreds of years of colonialization and the effects of that your eyes glaze over? Hmm...

We're seeing these changes BECAUSE images are powerful and carry messages. And, as always, just because YOU think they are fine does not necessarily mean that everyone has felt that way. The people depicted on the Jungle Cruise don't exactly represent you. Nor did the Indians. People who are/were represented by them should have a little more weight in those conversations as a result.

Again, this is not to say that this was all done in the 50s with bad intentions. But the thing about history, society, and viewpoints is that they change over time. Things that once weren't given a second thought get re-examined. That ultimately can and does include silly entertainment at amusement parks.
The ride takes place in the 20s or 30s deep in the jungle. The africans it shows within that context are appropriate to the setting and accurate and not portrayed as bafoons in any form. I have never understood the argument when people say "that AA or character does not look like me so I don't feel represented." It is such a foreign concept to me and superficial. I am hispanic, when I see Carlos being dunked on Pirates in the town well I never once thought, "I can't relate to him because he does not look like me. Why is the Hispanic being dunked?!!! Treating my people like bafoons!! RACISTS!". That is how a 5 year old thinks. Not a mature adult who can tell the difference between real life and a theme park. I don't go to Disneyland looking for accurate representation in a park where I can ride a flying elephant. I GO TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND LAUGH. I see myself in real life people of different cultures regardless of race but by how they conduct themselves and share similar values I have and how they live their lives by displaying those values. If you are going to a theme park and feel the robots on a fake jungle adventure ride from set in the 30s dont represent africans of the real life modern day, then I got nothing for you pal.
 
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SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
So now that it appears that they are showing some restraint by not adding any major movie tie ins to Jungle Cruise, can we see them removing the Depps out POTC? Or at the very least change the audio back?

Oof, this whole Depp situation is a mess. Iconic character that led a billion dollar franchise- and now he's Hollywood kryptonite. And Disney plastered him all over their most iconic attraction ever, and the last one overseen by Walt Disney.

Honestly, it's a great example of why Disney shouldn't add real world characters to these attractions that exist in the realm of fantasy- so it's nice that Kim learned her lesson in the last 20 years and isn't going to have a Rock animatronic replace Mr. Sam as the head salesman of the Jungle...

Also, I just saw if anyone's interested- he has a great deal going! He'll trade two of his heads for only one of yours.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Oof, this whole Depp situation is a mess. Iconic character that led a billion dollar franchise- and now he's Hollywood kryptonite. And Disney plastered him all over their most iconic attraction ever, and the last one overseen by Walt Disney.

There's generally a rule that you don't name a bridge or an airport after a politician until after they are dead and buried. That way, all their scandals and hookers and affairs and drug dealers and money laundering schemes are buried with them too, and it's finally safe to spend the money on a plaque and a sign.

Disney should have done that with Johnny Depp before they plastered "Jack Sparrow!" all over their most popular ride.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
There's generally a rule that you don't name a bridge or an airport after a politician until after they are dead and buried. That way, all their scandals and hookers and affairs and drug dealers and money laundering schemes are buried with them too, and it's finally safe to spend the money on a plaque and a sign.

Disney should have done that with Johnny Depp before they plastered "Jack Sparrow!" all over their most popular ride.

I agree. Didn’t work with Michael Jackson though
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. Riding past the black animatronics in Jungle Cruise didn’t inspire me as a black person, nor make me proud to be black. I don’t mind their presence but I’m not going to miss them either. They can go if need be. Don’t care if they stay either.

Okay.

But as a white person, riding past the white animatronics on Pirates or Carousel of Progress or Haunted Mansion (even though they are dead) doesn't inspire me nor make me proud to be white. It's just a fun ride at an amusement park.

Is it possible some folks, even current Imagineers, are assigning too much importance to what an amusement park ride should do for them? Personal inspiration or pride in oneself is not something I generally get out of Disneyland rides. That seems a fairly tall order to give to a jokey boat ride at an amusement park.

That said, there are a couple notable exceptions. I always got goosebumps at Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. And I usually tried to find the Swedish kids in Small World, and rolled my eyes at the outsized representation that Denmark gets with all those toy soldiers in Tivoli Gardens.

But at least I'm not Canadian. They don't even get a doll. They only get a plywood Mountie flapping his arms. :cool:

f5a8bbfc773f20822aa50f8aeb8cf10a.jpg
 
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1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
There's generally a rule that you don't name a bridge or an airport after a politician until after they are dead and buried. That way, all their scandals and hookers and affairs and drug dealers and money laundering schemes are buried with them too, and it's finally safe to spend the money on a plaque and a sign.

Disney should have done that with Johnny Depp before they plastered "Jack Sparrow!" all over their most popular ride.
To be fair Depp did not do anything wrong. She was the abuser.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Okay.

But as a white person, riding past the white animatronics on Pirates or Carousel of Progress or Haunted Mansion (even though they are dead) doesn't inspire me nor make me proud to be white. It's just a fun ride at an amusement park.

Is it possible some folks, even current Imagineers, are assigning too much importance to what an amusement park ride should do for them? Personal inspiration or pride in oneself is not something I generally get out of Disneyland rides. That seems a fairly tall order to give to a jokey boat ride at an amusement park.

That said, there are a couple notable exceptions. I always got goosebumps at Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. And I usually tried to find the Swedish kids in Small World, and rolled my eyes at the outsized representation that Denmark gets with all those toy soldiers in Tivoli Gardens.

But at least I'm not Canadian. They don't even get a doll. They only get a plywood Mountie flapping his arms. :cool:

f5a8bbfc773f20822aa50f8aeb8cf10a.jpg
That’s you though. You’re welcome to not feel anything when you float by white animatronics, not feel inspired, and move on. But this isn’t about how this effects white people. I as a black woman experience color, race, and representation in an entirely different way. The lack of healthy and diverse representation of the black community has been a cycle that continued for centuries, especially here in America, and has just now started to shift a bit. There’s a reason why black people went nuts and spent money on brand new outfits just to see Black Panther at the theater. Finally we were seeing ourselves on the big screen not as slaves and savages/“thugs,” but as a powerful and intelligent group of black people.

It’s not “just a fun ride at an amusement park” for us minorities who rarely see ourselves in progressive and healthy/different in entertainment. You have the privilege (yes, privilege) of not having to worry about NOT seeing your race represented in diverse and plentiful ways. Growing up as a black child in the early 90s with no proper representation anywhere I looked, including Disneyland, as well as attending school with mostly white children obliterated my self esteem. I HATED being black and wished I was white. I hated my kinky hair, my physical features, and especially hated that I was descended from slaves. I struggled from elementary all the way through high school. It wasn’t until I took an African American studies course taught by a proud black woman as a freshman in college (something I never saw in school) when I finally started to shed that toxic negativity. It took years of learning about black history in college and learning to self love to undo years of pain and self-hatred.

Thank God society is taking representation more seriously nowadays and doing a better job of trying to be more inclusive. I never had a Princess Tiana at Disneyland as a child. She will most likely be the only black princess Disney creates, so I hope they continue to place her in the parks in as many mediums as possible to and hopefully spare some little black girls of the self-loathing I experienced. I love seeing the faces of young black children light up when they see her in the parks. That was something I desperately needed as a kid. Minority children NEED to see representations of themselves outside of their homes, including at theme parks such as Disneyland. I wrote a short paper on this topic for a writing competition by Disney years ago and was rewarded for it. I’m happy to know they are making changes.

What’s telling is @Dr. Hans Reinhardt and I are the only black regulars here (I believe) and very few of you, you included TP, have made an attempt to ask us questions to gain our perspective on this topic which concerns black representation (the ones screaming WHO CARES and AFRICANS USED SPEARS IN THE JUNGLE). And that’s because you guys and gals don’t care. You don’t care to be educated on this topic, you don’t care to understand how we as black people might mentally and emotionally respond to things like this. You simply don’t care because you enjoy it and want to continue to be able to enjoy the ride without having to be forced into questioning the ride, all while mocking efforts for inclusivity and healthy representation. Let’s keep it real.

Continue enjoying Lincoln.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
There’s a reason why black people went nuts and spent money on brand new outfits just to see Black Panther at the theater. Finally we were seeing ourselves on the big screen not as slaves and savages/“thugs,” but as a powerful and intelligent group of black people.
No one purchased a trench coat when Blade and Blade 2 came out? Where were they when Spawn came out? Black Panther was not the first big screen mainstream super hero despite what you read online.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
That’s you though. You’re welcome to not feel anything when you float by white animatronics, not feel inspired, and move on. But this isn’t about how this effects white people. I as a black woman experience color, race, and representation in an entirely different way. The lack of healthy and diverse representation of the black community has been a cycle that continued for centuries, especially here in America, and has just now started to shift a bit. There’s a reason why black people went nuts and spent money on brand new outfits just to see Black Panther at the theater. Finally we were seeing ourselves on the big screen not as slaves and savages/“thugs,” but as a powerful and intelligent group of black people.

It’s not “just a fun ride at an amusement park” for us minorities who rarely see ourselves in progressive and healthy/different in entertainment. You have the privilege (yes, privilege) of not having to worry about NOT seeing your race represented in diverse and plentiful ways. Growing up as a black child in the early 90s with no proper representation anywhere I looked, including Disneyland, as well as attending school with mostly white children obliterated my self esteem. I HATED being black and wished I was white. I hated my kinky hair, my physical features, and especially hated that I was descended from slaves. I struggled from elementary all the way through high school. It wasn’t until I took an African American studies course taught by a proud black woman as a freshman in college (something I never saw in school) when I finally started to shed that toxic negativity. It took years of learning about black history in college and learning to self love to undo years of pain and self-hatred.

Thank God society is taking representation more seriously nowadays and doing a better job of trying to be more inclusive. I never had a Princess Tiana at Disneyland as a child. She will most likely be the only black princess Disney creates, so I hope they continue to place her in the parks in as many mediums as possible to and hopefully spare some little black girls of the self-loathing I experienced. I love seeing the faces of young black children light up when they see her in the parks. That was something I desperately needed as a kid. Minority children NEED to see representations of themselves outside of their homes, including at theme parks such as Disneyland. I wrote a short paper on this topic for a writing competition by Disney years ago and was rewarded for it. I’m happy to know they are making changes.

What’s telling is @Dr. Hans Reinhardt and I are the only black regulars here (I believe) and very few of you, you included TP, have made an attempt to ask us questions to gain our perspective on this topic which concerns black representation (the ones screaming WHO CARES and AFRICANS USED SPEARS IN THE JUNGLE). And that’s because you guys and gals don’t care. You don’t care to be educated on this topic, you don’t care to understand how we as black people might mentally and emotionally respond to things like this. You simply don’t care because you enjoy it and want to continue to be able to enjoy the ride without having to be forced into questioning the ride, all while mocking efforts for inclusivity and healthy representation. Let’s keep it real.

Continue enjoying Lincoln.
Legit question- within the context of the ride, which to recap is a jungle water boat tour in africa set in late 1920s to early 1930s give or take, how is showing a tribe of native africans deep in the jungle dressed and using items appropriate to the time period the ride is set in bad representation of black people? (JEPOARDY THEME SONG PLAYS)
I am hispanic. We dont have a hispanic super hero. We are not in a lot of rides. And the one major ride we are in one of us is being dunked in a town well by Pirates looking for Johnny Depp and I dont know one hispanic disgusted by that scene because its not inclusive or does not represent hispanic people. It is a ride. You cant throw out the 'its a theme park argument' because we are talking about a theme park made in the late 1950s. You can't view a ride made in the 50s through modern eyes. Your problem is you are upset about the type of black people used in the ride when it is historically accurate to the theme of the ride and appropriate. What did you want them to do? Not have any africans in a ride set in africa in the jungle? How would you want them used? The way they are used is appropriate for the context of the ride. Its our Splash Mountain argument all over again when you said people got off the ride offended they were not represented felt exluded on a ride with singing animals. No one ever got off the ride thinking that just like no one has ever gotten off The Jungle Cruise without a smile because they understood it is a theme park ride.
 
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Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
That’s you though. You’re welcome to not feel anything when you float by white animatronics, not feel inspired, and move on. But this isn’t about how this effects white people. I as a black woman experience color, race, and representation in an entirely different way. The lack of healthy and diverse representation of the black community has been a cycle that continued for centuries, especially here in America, and has just now started to shift a bit. There’s a reason why black people went nuts and spent money on brand new outfits just to see Black Panther at the theater. Finally we were seeing ourselves on the big screen not as slaves and savages/“thugs,” but as a powerful and intelligent group of black people.

It’s not “just a fun ride at an amusement park” for us minorities who rarely see ourselves in progressive and healthy/different in entertainment. You have the privilege (yes, privilege) of not having to worry about NOT seeing your race represented in diverse and plentiful ways. Growing up as a black child in the early 90s with no proper representation anywhere I looked, including Disneyland, as well as attending school with mostly white children obliterated my self esteem. I HATED being black and wished I was white. I hated my kinky hair, my physical features, and especially hated that I was descended from slaves. I struggled from elementary all the way through high school. It wasn’t until I took an African American studies course taught by a proud black woman as a freshman in college (something I never saw in school) when I finally started to shed that toxic negativity. It took years of learning about black history in college and learning to self love to undo years of pain and self-hatred.

Thank God society is taking representation more seriously nowadays and doing a better job of trying to be more inclusive. I never had a Princess Tiana at Disneyland as a child. She will most likely be the only black princess Disney creates, so I hope they continue to place her in the parks in as many mediums as possible to and hopefully spare some little black girls of the self-loathing I experienced. I love seeing the faces of young black children light up when they see her in the parks. That was something I desperately needed as a kid. Minority children NEED to see representations of themselves outside of their homes, including at theme parks such as Disneyland. I wrote a short paper on this topic for a writing competition by Disney years ago and was rewarded for it. I’m happy to know they are making changes.

What’s telling is @Dr. Hans Reinhardt and I are the only black regulars here (I believe) and very few of you, you included TP, have made an attempt to ask us questions to gain our perspective on this topic which concerns black representation (the ones screaming WHO CARES and AFRICANS USED SPEARS IN THE JUNGLE). And that’s because you guys and gals don’t care. You don’t care to be educated on this topic, you don’t care to understand how we as black people might mentally and emotionally respond to things like this. You simply don’t care because you enjoy it and want to continue to be able to enjoy the ride without having to be forced into questioning the ride, all while mocking efforts for inclusivity and healthy representation. Let’s keep it real.

Continue enjoying Lincoln.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 

SSG

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So, I wonder if the Jungle Cruise ornaments and Jungle Cruise dress--both currently sold on Shop Disney- will be pulled?

JC Orn.jpg



JC Dress.jpg
 
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Ellen Ripley

Well-Known Member
Okay.

But as a white person, riding past the white animatronics on Pirates or Carousel of Progress or Haunted Mansion (even though they are dead) doesn't inspire me nor make me proud to be white. It's just a fun ride at an amusement park.

Is it possible some folks, even current Imagineers, are assigning too much importance to what an amusement park ride should do for them? Personal inspiration or pride in oneself is not something I generally get out of Disneyland rides. That seems a fairly tall order to give to a jokey boat ride at an amusement park.

That said, there are a couple notable exceptions. I always got goosebumps at Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. And I usually tried to find the Swedish kids in Small World, and rolled my eyes at the outsized representation that Denmark gets with all those toy soldiers in Tivoli Gardens.

But at least I'm not Canadian. They don't even get a doll. They only get a plywood Mountie flapping his arms. :cool:

f5a8bbfc773f20822aa50f8aeb8cf10a.jpg


There's a thing called unconscious bias, and we all have it:




 
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Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
I forgot how african tribes deep in the jungle live in modern apartments. silly me.
I hear the rent's pretty good for those.
My bet is Tiki Room is next. As soon as Twitter learns it's a white man voicing Jose...
They'll probably redub his voice with some random Hispanic celebrity who sounds nothing like the original. Is George Lopez still a draw?
So now that it appears that they are showing some restraint by not adding any major movie tie ins to Jungle Cruise, can we see them removing the Depps out POTC? Or at the very least change the audio back?
Doing that would make it look like they support Amber Heard. Which, let's face it, they probably do. It ain't fair, but I wouldn't put it past them.
 

J2B

New Member
Bingo! These legends who's work has defined pop culture for generations through Disneyland and their animated films reputation is now being tarnished, when it didn't need to be.

There's a million ways to announce attraction changes, and they could have done it without once mentioning a need to erase stereotypes in the iteration of the attraction generations have loved. And without referencing the attractions as 'negative'.

At least in theme parks there aren't credits- most guests have no idea that Marc Davis added many of those vignettes in the '60s or who Blaine Gibson is. So really the only person who's legacy could be meaningfully tarnished in the realm of public opinion is Walt Disney- and I'm curious if Disney's PR team has a strategy to counter that if someone on Twitter puts 2 and 2 together and realizes it was Walt who greenlit Song of the South, Tiki Room, Jungle...
Unfortunately Disney is woke
 

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