Jungle Cruise Update

[lazyboy97o]

Do we have an actual source that people are talking about the *need* for the Africa scene to change? I see no one here saying that, and the only reference was to an unspecified "some people" calling for this. Who are these "some people?" Someone on Twitter? Why should we care what those people say?

It just seems like nothing more to me than people running with the the misplaced "Well THESE changes are happening and that means the only and inevitable thing that will happen is that everything Good and Pure about My Disneyland will be DESTROYED!" narratives that have taken root in the past year.

I have seen it observed in the past. As a whole it’s rather disturbing how many Disney fans just seem to instinctively lump Africans with animals. Someone mentions building a pavilion for an African country in World Showcase or now building a Wakanda land somewhere and inevitably people will start saying it belongs in or is repeating Africa at Disney’s Animal Kingdom. You do not see such a strong sentiment expressed if somebody expresses wanting an India Pavilion at World Showcase.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I’m personally not. Because it’s just an innocent Fantasyland ride from the 60s with good intentions. I’m also not offended because I have never given it this much thought and nobody ever would unless hours upon hours are spent on a site like this. I would imagine many Southern Italians wouldn’t feel represented by the IASW scene if they gave it a second thought. I just don’t think we care. Many Northern Italians kind of think Sicilians and Southern Italians are beneath them. We’re not “real” Italians because our blood is mixed with too many other races/ ethnicities. I think their may also be a “class” thing going on. Of course, I haven’t experienced this first hand but it’s a thing according to my family.


EDIT: well I kind of have experienced it actually. Their have been times when I or a family member hear someone speaking Italian and strike up a conversation. We ask where their from and let’s say they say Rome, Venice or Milan for example. When we respond with Sicily you can see the wind come out of their sails. And you just kind of get the coldest “oh.”

As a half Italian/Sicilian myself I do appreciate this discussion. But honestly I also don’t fault popular culture for gravitating to the more “cosmopolitan” aspects of any culture. Just as I’m sure people throughout the world largely envision America as a broadly expansive space bookended by Hollywood/LA and New York City.

That said that could be since I’m a second generation American and much of what remains of my extended cousins that remain migrated north to Turin/Milan to work at the Fiat factory, it’s all pretty monolithic to me, too.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just as I’m sure people throughout the world largely envision America as a broadly expansive space bookended by Hollywood/LA and New York City.

“In a land so vast, where will we go?”

 

[BrianLo]

Again, I don't *need* them to make a change, but it's not exactly equitable.

Same. I have no huge problem, it is always going to skew more to an American sensibility as more recognizable touristy things. America is over represented (but not diversified) same with Western Europe and arguably Polynesia.

While I hate to say it, Africa is Animals because Americans simply are more familiar with the animals than the culture - again from a tourist side of things. I know I am equally guilty of this based on my travel patterns, some cost mediated.

I kind of like the difference in HK that is a little more Asia focused, just for variety. But most Western markets understand the differences between France and Italy. Most really don't understand other than China, Japan and "other", if I'm being generous.

Is Morocco technically also represented? I'm not sure if any are supposed to be Morocco or just wide brush Middle East.

 

[PiratesMansion]

As a half Italian/Sicilian myself I do appreciate this discussion. But honestly I also don’t fault popular culture for gravitating to the more “cosmopolitan” aspects of any culture. Just as I’m sure people throughout the world largely envision America as a broadly expansive space bookended by Hollywood/LA and New York City.

That said that could be since I’m a second generation American and much of what remains of my extended cousins that remain migrated north to Turin/Milan to work at the Fiat factory, it’s all pretty monolithic to me, too.

I think in some ways I understand the desire to stay true to how people viewed areas in the past. Through so many changes in the past century we have all become more similar than different and those differences that once existed aren't as pronounced as they once were.

But on the other hand sometimes these views of the past are, for various reasons (and lack of a better word), "problematic," and I don't feel like, to stay with the digression of the past several pages, cultural understanding (in the US anyway) of Africa has changed at all in the past 100 years in any way, because we keep seeing the same sorts of images over and over again.

Which is not to say that those images are *never true*, but what has been internalized by many, consciously or not, is that they are *always true.* Especially because they've stayed so consistent over the years.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m personally not. Because it’s just an innocent Fantasyland ride from the 60s with good intentions. I’m also not offended because I have never given it this much thought and nobody ever would unless hours upon hours are spent on a site like this. I would imagine many Southern Italians wouldn’t feel represented by the IASW scene if they gave it a second thought. I just don’t think we care. Many Northern Italians kind of think Sicilians and Southern Italians are beneath them. We’re not “real” Italians because our blood is mixed with too many other races/ ethnicities. I think their may also be a “class” thing going on. Of course, I haven’t experienced this first hand but it’s a thing according to my family.


EDIT: well I kind of have experienced it actually. Their have been times when I or a family member hear someone speaking Italian and strike up a conversation. We ask where their from and let’s say they say Rome, Venice or Milan for example. When we respond with Sicily you can see the wind come out of their sails. And you just kind of get the coldest “oh.”

And that’s fine. You don’t have to be disappointed, but others shouldn’t feel bad about wanting to see better representation, especially when it can be linked to racism.

I’m well aware of the vitriol northern Italians spew at southerners. It’s unfortunate.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Do we have an actual source that people are talking about the *need* for the Africa scene to change? I see no one here saying that, and the only reference was to an unspecified "some people" calling for this. Who are these "some people?" Someone on Twitter? Why should we care what those people say?

It just seems like nothing more to me than people running with the the misplaced "Well THESE changes are happening and that means the only and inevitable thing that will happen is that everything Good and Pure about My Disneyland will be DESTROYED!" narratives that have taken root in the past year.

Yeah, the sensationalism surrounding recent announcements (this and Splash) has been off the charts insane. As many have speculated already, SM was the only attraction that needed the most attention due to its ties with SotS, and so the rest of the changes would be much more minor like we're seeing here with JC.

As for IASW, WDW Pro claimed that changes would be made to the finale scene, along with the Africa scene in the attraction, though he never specified much beyond that. Hopefully whatever changes are made are tasteful. Speaking of rumors and speculation, I talked to a former CM online about IASW, and he told me back in 2018, TDA wanted to raze it in favor of something completely different because of some survey question, which, just sounds ridiculous. I never really had full closure on whether that was a hoax or not, though I'd like to assume it's not the truth.

 

[D.Silentu]

Yeah, the sensationalism surrounding recent announcements (this and Splash) has been off the charts insane.

I think that this is partly due to Disney miscalculating current public feelings. On paper it might make sense to roll out changes during the longest closure in park history, "new coke" style. What I think escaped their notice was the fact that the pandemic has changed everyone's lifestyle so rapidly that people are grasping at any sense of normalcy they can find. Hearing Disneyland, a place meaningful and nostalgic for multitudes, is going to be changed right now is yet another sacrifice on the Covid alter. Despite the fact that there are good intentions behind all of this, it's hard for many to shake the feeling that the disease just took one more thing from their world.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I think that this is partly due to Disney miscalculating current public feelings. On paper it might make sense to roll out changes during the longest closure in park history, "new coke" style. What I think escaped their notice was the fact that the pandemic has changed everyone's lifestyle so rapidly that people are grasping at any sense of normalcy they can find. Hearing Disneyland, a place meaningful and nostalgic for multitudes, is going to be changed right now is yet another sacrifice on the Covid alter. Despite the fact that there are good intentions behind all of this, it's hard for many to shake the feeling that the disease just took one more thing from their world.

I think if the park was open or we had a better idea of when the park *would* open, and we had a better idea of *when* Splash is going to close it would also help soften the blow and de-escalate the rhetoric and intensity coming from both sides of these discussions. Give people a date and a deadline that gives people a reasonable amount of time to say goodbye to Splash and it would help *a little*. The vitriol on the JC side of things for most people, in my view, is less because people feel strongly about Jungle Cruise continuing to operate as is than a fear that just as they couldn't ride JC before the changes, the same thing will happen with Splash.

The timing and unknown nature of all this makes everything worse, particularly because people have been through a year of stress with limited ways to get out their energy and feelings in a productive way, so everyone's left just shouting at each other on the internet.

 

[Practical Pig]

Here are some observations on recent discussion in this thread:

I'm posting YouTube time-cued links to both the Italian and the African portions of IASW for convenience in comparison

Here is the Italy section of IASW:



There are three female dolls in addition to the gondolier on the same Italian architecture set piece. Unless I’m missing something, that makes four dolls, a Pinocchio, and a fantasia of architectural imagery including the leaning tower representing the country. This scene appears amid similar presentations of selected other countries on the Eurasian Continent, the largest on Earth, that are most familiar to an American perspective. In my opinion, this scene is relatively weak in presenting Italy compared to some other Eurasian countries, and the set piece that contains it is not a a strong part of the ride design.

Here is the African section of IASW:



It starts in North Africa with Egyptian motifs and moves on. I didn’t count the number of human figures vs animal figures, but there are quite a few of both, with the animals (if we assume a pure intent) substituting for architecture to establish the contextual environment.

This scene is very rich in imagery on its own legs. But then it is representing an entire continent of many countries and cultures all by itself.

 

[Sailor310]

Here are some observations on recent discussion in this thread:

I'm posting YouTube time-cued links to both the Italian and the African portions of IASW for convenience in comparison

Here is the Italy section of IASW:



There are three female dolls in addition to the gondolier on the same Italian architecture set piece. Unless I’m missing something, that makes four dolls, a Pinocchio, and a fantasia of architectural imagery including the leaning tower representing the country. This scene appears amid similar presentations of selected other countries on the Eurasian Continent, the largest on Earth, that are most familiar to an American perspective. In my opinion, this scene is relatively weak in presenting Italy compared to some other Eurasian countries, and the set piece that contains it is not a a strong part of the ride design.

Here is the African section of IASW:



It starts in North Africa with Egyptian motifs and moves on. I didn’t count the number of human figures vs animal figures, but there are quite a few of both, with the animals (if we assume a pure intent) substituting for architecture to establish the contextual environment.

This scene is very rich in imagery on its own legs. But then it is representing an entire continent of many countries and cultures all by itself.

About half way through it dawned on me that I could turn sound off. It was wonderful!

 

[TP2000]

There is a difference between associating Italy and Italians with gondolas versus leaving most of the Africa scenes full of wild animals. Unfortunately, there’s a very long history of portraying Africans and black people in general as animals and savages, especially as monkeys and apes. In addition, the narrative that Africa is nothing but huts and wild animals is still an ongoing thing.

I don’t think anyone is trying to argue that Disney’s intent is bad, just that some decisions should be carefully thought out.

The irony there is that the original 1964 New York and 1966 Disneyland versions of the ride had more human dolls in the Africa scene.

But they were removed when the first wave of 20th century offended people complained the children were laughing along with the laughing hyenas and that allegedly showed that African children were just like wild animals. Or something? But the laughing children with the laughing hyenas were removed, leaving the Africa room with fewer humans than it had originally.

Here's the original scene setup with the four dolls laughing with the hyena who were removed later in the 20th century.



The Africa scene actually has a lot of dolls still left, mainly because of the turntable with the tribesmen doing the Twist up on the turntable, and many musicians perched up along the walls and upper sets. The removal of the laughing children down in front left that scene looking more bare closer to the boats.

But I think it's fairly obvious where any human representation of Africans is going in the parks. They will be removed entirely, and Disney will give it all the Lion King treatment and just pretend that Africa only has animals there and no living humans or human culture to reference or portray. Problem solved!

Now, about that little Dutch boy knocking his wooden shoes together in that topsy-turvy tulip...

Honestly, every single doll and set in It's A Small World is a cartoonish stereotype of the country/culture/continent it's portraying. How anyone could be offended at any of this is beyond me. Except for the Canadians. That entire country has no dolls, no sets, and just a plywood Mountie flapping his arms in a dark corner.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The irony there is that the original 1964 New York and 1966 Disneyland versions of the ride had more human dolls in the Africa scene.

But they were removed when the first wave of 20th century offended people complained the children were laughing along with the laughing hyenas and that allegedly showed that African children were just like wild animals. Or something? But the laughing children with the laughing hyenas were removed, leaving the Africa room with fewer humans than it had originally.

Here's the original scene setup with the four dolls laughing with the hyena who were removed later in the 20th century.



The Africa scene actually has a lot of dolls still left, mainly because of the turntable with the tribesmen doing the Twist up on the turntable, and many musicians perched up along the walls and upper sets. The removal of the laughing children down in front left that scene looking more bare closer to the boats.

But I think it's fairly obvious where any human representation of Africans is going in the parks. They will be removed entirely, and Disney will give it all the Lion King treatment and just pretend that Africa only has animals there and no living humans or human culture to reference or portray. Problem solved!

Now, about that little Dutch boy knocking his wooden shoes together in that topsy-turvy tulip...

Honestly, every single doll and set in It's A Small World is a cartoonish stereotype of the country/culture/continent it's portraying. How anyone could be offended at any of this is beyond me. Except for the Canadians. That entire country has no dolls, no sets, and just a plywood Mountie flapping his arms in a dark corner.

No one here insinuated that they were offended. In addition, I'm not sure how you're getting the idea from this thread that the African dolls will be removed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Honestly, if they decide to alter/ update anything in IASW, I won't be upset, because first off it probably isn't going to be anything drastic, and secondly, if that one former CM I talked to online, who claimed TDA wants to erase/ raze IASW in favor of some other IP based amalgamation of an E Ticket, is in fact telling the truth, then it's a good sign they view IASW as a worthy investment, thus increasing its staying power.

Maybe don’t put too much stock into what is said by Cast Members who just repeat garbage from MiceChat.

 

[TP2000]

No one here insinuated that they were offended. In addition, I'm not sure how you're getting the idea from this thread that the African dolls will be removed.

No, my point was just the opposite. They already removed some of the dolls from the 1960's in the Africa scene. So add some back! At least the four they removed.

If it's still offensive to laugh along with the laughing hyenas, even if the hyenas survived and are still there laughing away, add those four dolls somewhere else in that room. There's not enough dolls down close to the boats there, that room has most of the dolls up on turntables or distant set pieces. Get some of them closer like they are in Oceania or Europe, and I think it would work wonders there.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Maybe don’t put too much stock into what is said by Cast Members who just repeat garbage from MiceChat.

That's why I scoffed at the rumor right away. The former CM was adamant about his claims, and even went as far to claim the MiceChat debacle and the situation he was referring to were separate. One taking place in 2018, and the BS MiceChat article in 2019. I'm assuming he misunderstood something he was told a while back, thus the reason he was so adamant about his claims being true. He's a nice guy, and I don't want to trash talk him behind his back. However, you just can't really expect someone to buy into your rumor about an iconic attraction being erased from an equally iconic park, especially when said claim has some connections to a clickbait trash MiceChat article from 2019.

Anyways, let's get back on topic...

 

[DCBaker]

"As we shared earlier this year, we are building on the original story of the Jungle Cruise at Disneyland park and Magic Kingdom Park. We’re adding more humor, wildlife and skipper heart to the classic attraction, and as part of a much larger effort, this updated experience will welcome new characters from around the world.

The enhancements include several new scenes guests will experience along the river, all interconnected. Our world-famous skippers will continue to share the unique adventure and interactions guests expect on the Jungle Cruise.

The new scenes will heighten our skippers’ legendary comedic tone, beginning with a trapped safari party that finds itself up a tree after their journey goes awry. Unexpected scenarios along the way will give the jungle and animals the last laugh!

For those looking to dive deeper, we’re also expanding the attraction’s backstory, centered around Alberta Falls, granddaughter of world-renowned Dr. Albert Falls, as the proprietor of the Jungle Navigation Company Ltd.

Jungle Cruise fans might be familiar with her name; however, wouldn’t you know it, we recently uncovered a copy of an interview with Alberta Falls that was featured in a 1938 issue of The Daily Gnus about her and the World-Famous Jungle Cruise. We hope you’ll enjoy getting to know her!



Stay tuned for more details coming later this year!"

Jungle Cruise Adds New Characters, Mischievous Wildlife and Skipper Humor to Classic Attraction

As we shared earlier this year, we are building on the original story of the Jungle Cruise at Disneyland park and Magic Kingdom Park. We’re adding more humor, wildlife and skipper heart to the classic attraction, and as part of a much larger

disneyparks.disney.go.com

 

[PiratesMansion]

Alberta Falls? *groan*

 

[Brer Panther]

I like the sound of "added more wildlife".

 

[DCBaker]

A lot more in this article here -

Felix Pechman XIII, Jungle Navigation Company Ltd. Skipper

Felix landed his new job as a Jungle Cruise skipper soon after leaving his home in Silver Springs, Florida. A rather unlucky chap — his surname means “bad luck man” in several languages — Felix found himself cutting his skipper teeth by leading his very first boat tour for Alberta’s VIP guests.

“Unfortunately,” said Lively, a story editor with Walt Disney Imagineering, “Pechman’s trademark bad luck has followed him to the jungle, and, well… we know where that landed them!”

Skipper Felix joins the attraction as an Audio-Animatronic skipper, whose role will complement the live skippers we know and love. “Your expedition will still be led by a live skipper delivering classic puns,” said Lively, who, as a former Jungle Cruise skipper, brings firsthand experience of the role to his writing of the updates. “With the addition of the Skipper Felix, his passengers, and their fractured boat; new opportunities will arise for his ‘live’ coworkers to make some witty comments about the situation.”

-

"While Disney hasn’t revealed all of the planned updates, we wondered what the ride’s reimagining could mean for Trader Sam, the jungle’s “head” salesman who appears near the end of the ride and lends his name to Trader Sam’s Enchanted Tiki Bar at the Disneyland Hotel and Trader Sam’s Grog Grotto and Tiki Bar at Walt Disney World’s Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort.

While Tubert and Lively didn’t elaborate on how the character Trader Sam might be addressed within the ride, Tubert did confirm that there are no changes currently planned for the eponymous tiki bars, both of which remain closed due to the pandemic at present.

“As far as Trader Sam’s Enchanted Tiki Bar at Disneyland Resort and Trader Sam’s Grog Grotto at Walt Disney World Resort, no plans are on the way to update them currently,” Tubert said."

Imagineers talk new Jungle Cruise characters, S.E.A., Trader Sam’s

We got the inside scoop from Walt Disney Imagineering on new Jungle Cruise characters (new S.E.A. member!), Trader Sam’s, and more.

attractionsmagazine.com