Jungle Cruise Update

[Californian Elitist]

In the case of IASW, don’t you think it has something to do with Africa having all the cool animals? What animal would they use for Italy for example? I can’t even think of one animal that is really associated with the country off the top of my head. On a ride, you are going for the most bang for your buck as the boats glide by the given scene. For Italy, they chose a gondola because people see that instantly understand. For Africa they chose a few African natives and all the really cool animals because it instantly paints a picture. By the way, the Africa scene is by far my favorite scene in IASW. It has the most character with all the colorful animals and all of the greenery hanging from the ceiling gives it much more depth than ceiling tiles found elsewhere. Someone looking at the glass half full could say they cared the most about the Africa scene. Would a few more natives with perhaps more accurate clothing in addition to the animals really make a difference?

It’s my ongoing joke but if we want to be really accurate we could just put all the dolls in business casual clothing and have them sitting in cubicles. Of course the ride has to be based on stereotypes because it’s in those stereotypes that you find the most color, character and diversity.

There’s nothing necessarily wrong with the presence of animals. It’s the possible fact that there are more animals than there are dolls. African countries are rife with various cultures. There’s really no excuse to showcase Africa with mostly animals. There’s more to the countries and the continent in general than lions and elephants. I believe that it would make a difference.

I’m not even sure if there are more animals than doll children. Might have to look at a ride-through.

 

[mickEblu]

There’s nothing necessarily wrong with the presence of animals. It’s the possible fact that there are more animals than there are dolls. African countries are rife with various cultures. There’s really no excuse to showcase Africa with mostly animals. There’s more to the countries and the continent in general than lions and elephants. I believe that it would make a difference.

I’m not even sure if there are more animals than doll children. Might have to look at a ride-through.

I’m not sure either. It could just be that the animals get most of our attention due to their size and colors.

Well that’s what I was saying earlier. There’s a lot more to all the countries that are showcased in IASW. I went to Sicily for a month and I didn’t see one gondola.

 

[Brer Panther]

The reason I brought up the complaints about It's a Small World is because somebody else pointed out that removing the natives from the Jungle Cruise makes it look like there are no humans in Africa, only animals. Since that's something people complained about in regards to It's a Small World, won't the updated Jungle Cruise get complaints for that same reason?

I still really don't care whether or not they remove the natives, I'm just asking.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The reason I brought up the complaints about It's a Small World is because somebody else pointed out that removing the natives from the Jungle Cruise makes it look like there are no humans in Africa, only animals. Since that's something people complained about in regards to It's a Small World, won't the updated Jungle Cruise get complaints for that same reason?

I still really don't care whether or not they remove the natives, I'm just asking.

Context. Jungle Cruise is about animals. “It’s a small world” is about peoples of the world, not animals. That’s the problem. Certain peoples get placed with the animals, not the other people.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Haven't there people been claiming that the Africa scene in It's a Small World is problematic because it's full of animals with very few humans?

Interesting! Honestly have not heard that. Hmmmmm animals being represented along w children getting along and having fun in of all places Africa! I believe some more animal species need to be interspersed interacting happily w the children.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Context. Jungle Cruise is about animals. “It’s a small world” is about peoples of the world, not animals. That’s the problem. Certain peoples get placed with the animals, not the other people.

Really! This thought is a bit much, yes, even for you.

 

[el_super]

Haven't there people been claiming that the Africa scene in It's a Small World is problematic because it's full of animals with very few humans?

So change it?

I don't understand the tu quoque, "whataboutism," defense. Is the idea to make us think that changing Small World can never happen, and ergo make us change our mind about changing the Jungle Cruise?

Both can be changed. Nothing will be perfect, and the lack of perfection is not a valid excuse not to try.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Personally, while I have no problem with any scene of IASW as it is (except for that wretched "allegedly America but we really just wanted to put in bad Woody and Jesse dolls" scene), it would be less offensive to me if they were to update some of the dolls to fit better within a modern context/understanding of culture, should the need arise, than what they did when they just threw the Disney characters into the attractions in the most disingenuous way possible.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m not sure either. It could just be that the animals get most of our attention due to their size and colors.

Well that’s what I was saying earlier. There’s a lot more to all the countries that are showcased in IASW. I went to Sicily for a month and I didn’t see one gondola.

I think gondolas are mainly a Venice thing, no? I went to a number of cities in Italy and only saw the gondolas in Venice.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I think gondolas are mainly a Venice thing, no? I went to a number of cities in Italy and only saw the gondolas in Venice.

Yea, gondolas are absolutely a Venice Italy thing even though the term is applied to things such as cable cars it would definitely not fit the Jungle Cruise.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I’m not sure either. It could just be that the animals get most of our attention due to their size and colors.

Well that’s what I was saying earlier. There’s a lot more to all the countries that are showcased in IASW. I went to Sicily for a month and I didn’t see one gondola.

Try Venice. Just a suggestion.

 

[mickEblu]

I think gondolas are mainly a Venice thing, no? I went to a number of cities in Italy and only saw the gondolas in Venice.

Yeah they are. That’s my point. One dude on a gondola is representing the entire country.

 

[mickEblu]

Try Venice. Just a suggestion.

You missed my point

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yeah they are. That’s my point. One dude on a gondola is representing the entire country.

And you and others have every right to be disappointed by that, if that’s how you feel. It’s understandable.

 

[mickEblu]

And you and others have every right to be disappointed by that, if that’s how you feel. It’s understandable.

I’m personally not. Because it’s just an innocent Fantasyland ride from the 60s with good intentions. I’m also not offended because I have never given it this much thought and nobody ever would unless hours upon hours are spent on a site like this. I would imagine many Southern Italians wouldn’t feel represented by the IASW scene if they gave it a second thought. I just don’t think we care. Many Northern Italians kind of think Sicilians and Southern Italians are beneath them. We’re not “real” Italians because our blood is mixed with too many other races/ ethnicities. I think their may also be a “class” thing going on. Of course, I haven’t experienced this first hand but it’s a thing according to my family.


EDIT: well I kind of have experienced it actually. Their have been times when I or a family member hear someone speaking Italian and strike up a conversation. We ask where their from and let’s say they say Rome, Venice or Milan for example. When we respond with Sicily you can see the wind come out of their sails. And you just kind of get the coldest “oh.”

 

[Brer Panther]

Context. Jungle Cruise is about animals. “It’s a small world” is about peoples of the world, not animals. That’s the problem. Certain peoples get placed with the animals, not the other people.

Ah, okay.

 

[mickEblu]

Ah, okay.

I’m quoting you because I’m too lazy to find @lazyboy97o ‘s post. I’m just honestly wondering if any African person would rather have their entire country represented by one doll and zero animals? Or would they prefer the way it stands today’s with a lot of colorful animals and multiple dolls. I’m guessing the latter. And honestly I’m done talking about this. This is all just getting too silly now. Now we can’t have cartoon African animals in Africa if they outnumber the amount of people dolls. I might need to take a break from these boards. None of these conversations are bringing me any joy. Somebody wake me up when all the PC changes are done, the Coronavirus/ associated discussions are long gone and we have something more pleasant to talk about again. A healthy break is in order. Not just from this site but from social media and just having my phone in my face in general. I think their are real problems and injustices in the world but when EVERYTHING becomes “problematic” you start losing people- myself included. I think the battles should be chosen a little more carefully.

Peace y’all!

 

[PiratesMansion]

Do we have an actual source that people are talking about the *need* for the Africa scene to change? I see no one here saying that, and the only reference was to an unspecified "some people" calling for this. Who are these "some people?" Someone on Twitter? Why should we care what those people say?

It just seems like nothing more to me than people running with the the misplaced "Well THESE changes are happening and that means the only and inevitable thing that will happen is that everything Good and Pure about My Disneyland will be DESTROYED!" narratives that have taken root in the past year.

 

[BrianLo]

Africa is a continent.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Africa is a continent.

Exactly. People don't bat an eye when, say, Europe has several distinct groups and countries/cultures represented. Africa, which if nothing else has more countries and land area than Europe, is crammed into one room and the dolls have (so far as I remember; I'm hardly an IASW scholar) no distinguishable characteristics between them and they are playing second fiddle to the (admittedly cool) animals that live in (part of) it.

Again, I don't *need* them to make a change, but it's not exactly equitable.