Jungle Cruise Update

[Californian Elitist]

I think people are literally concocting narratives in their head to try and justify why they feel called out or annoyed by these changes.

This is the issue with conversations like these online, intent is completely lost.

Maybe we need to have a zoom call and we can all discuss this for real.

But the thing is I’d actually be down to have a Zoom call and chat with folks here. Excuse me, SOME of the folks here. Let me be a little more specific.

I’m down if you’re down.

 

[Brer Panther]

Even if nobody's outright saying that people who like Splash Mountain and the Jungle Cruise's headhunters are racist, that's the vibe I'm getting off from their posts. Even now it still feels like people who support/understand the changes are trying to brush off anyone who doesn't as insensitive or ignorant or whatever.

I obviously don't want anyone who goes to a Disney park to feel uncomfortable. I understand why people would find the Jungle Cruise's headhunters offensive, but with Splash Mountain I'm not seeing anything that would make somebody uncomfortable (the fact that it features the animated characters and some songs from Song of the South should not be enough to make it qualify as "racist").

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I disagree with you there Doc.

Do you also disagree that the world is round?

Oh well I tried.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Even if nobody's outright saying that people who like Splash Mountain and the Jungle Cruise's headhunters are racist, that's the vibe I'm getting off from their posts. Even now it still feels like people who support/understand the changes are trying to brush off anyone who doesn't as insensitive or ignorant or whatever.

I obviously don't want anyone who goes to a Disney park to feel uncomfortable. I understand why people would find the Jungle Cruise's headhunters offensive, but with Splash Mountain I'm not seeing anything that would make somebody uncomfortable (the fact that it features the animated characters and some songs from Song of the South should not be enough to make it qualify as "racist").

And what vibe are we supposed to be getting from people who so easily dismiss other people's experiences with prejudice/discrimination/racism/etc? Particularly from those who do so again and again?

Part of having empathy for others is being able to look beyond your own perspective. As much as we would all like to believe that we are reasonable, intelligent beings, the fact of the matter is that no matter what judgment I make, and no matter how well reasoned I find that judgment to be, that does not necessarily mean it is true for ANY other person. It's not my place to tell other people that their thoughts/fears/concerns aren't valid simply because I don't personally agree with or identify with them. I don't get to invalidate those thoughts just because I've never experienced them before.

And if enough people feel them, or could come to feel them in the future, is it really fair for me to categorically dismiss them simply because it's something that has never occured to *me*?

 

[Brer Panther]

And what vibe are we supposed to be getting from people who so easily dismiss other people's experiences with prejudice/discrimination/racism/etc? Particularly from those who do so again and again?

Part of having empathy for others is being able to look beyond your own perspective. As much as we would all like to believe that we are reasonable, intelligent beings, the fact of the matter is that no matter what judgment I make, and no matter how well reasoned I find that judgment to be, that does not necessarily mean it is true for ANY other person. It's not my place to tell other people that their thoughts/fears/concerns aren't valid simply because I don't personally agree with or identify with them. I don't get to invalidate those thoughts just because I've never experienced them before.

And if enough people feel them, or could come to feel them in the future, is it really fair for me to categorically dismiss them simply because it's something that has never occured to *me*?

Are you trying to imply that I am racist for not seeing what's so racist about Splash Mountain? Because I would like to point out that Splash Mountain has existed for years, there are fans of the attraction who are of color (that's not a politically incorrect term, is it?) and not all people of color think the same way. Splash Mountain is not Song of the South. None of the film's racist elements are in the attraction, ergo, I don't see why somebody would look at it as a problematic ride, especially since many parkgoers likely haven't even seen the film. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

 

[Brer Panther]

And before anybody says anything about me not realizing how offensive Splash Mountain is because I'm not black. I'm not Indian, but I find Raj from The Big Bang Theory an offensive caricature of Indians. I understand why the Indians from Peter Pan are considered racist. As I've said multiple times, I understand why people find the headhunters in the Jungle Cruise offensive. I'm just not seeing what's so racist about Splash Mountain (aside from the whole "Song of the South exists" thing).

 

[Deleted member 107043]

And what will happen and how would you feel if it won't happen?

How could it not happen is the question you should be asking. The removal of outdated cultural stereotypes is inevitable, at least if Disney intends to keep its Parks business relevant.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Only a handful of people raised their arms ya know

And you would know this to be true how?

I'll wait.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Why are they presumably replacing the monkeys in the camp scene with an abandoned/hijacked JC boat? Are we now being enlisted as Honorary Jungle Expedition Recruits to save a lost skipper named Roe Jhode?

 

[Brer Panther]

Why are they presumably replacing the monkeys in the camp scene with an abandoned/hijacked JC boat? Are we now being enlisted as Honorary Jungle Expedition Recruits to save a lost skipper named Roe Jhode?

I think the "chimps in a boat" scene will actually be replacing the headhunters or Trader Sam. I could be wrong, though.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Do you also disagree that the world is round?

Oh well I tried.

The world is round Doc.

 

[Sailor310]

Where's TP? "OK JC skipper recruit. It's your job to go rescue the lost crew." It's a new immersive adventure.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Are you trying to imply that I am racist for not seeing what's so racist about Splash Mountain? Because I would like to point out that Splash Mountain has existed for years, there are fans of the attraction who are of color (that's not a politically incorrect term, is it?) and not all people of color think the same way. Splash Mountain is not Song of the South. None of the film's racist elements are in the attraction, ergo, I don't see why somebody would look at it as a problematic ride, especially since many parkgoers likely haven't even seen the film. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

I don't believe I've named anyone specifically, nor am I even really talking about Splash Mountain in this instance. I don't believe I've said much of anything about Splash Mountain in this thread.

For this is not, despite the best efforts of some, Splash Mountain Topic # 37.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I get that you're not the only one doing this, but MAN some people on here just must have incredibly delicate and fragile lives that are several layers bubble-wrapped from genuine hardship and suffering if THIS is the hill they are choosing to die on right now, a hill they claim they don't care about yet keep circling back to, again and again.

Yep. I understand sadness and disappointment over change. What I don't understand is getting triggered over alterations that will make attractions more inclusive for ALL Disney fans. Apparently certain posters here think their narrow view of racial representation is the last word even when people who have firsthand experience are explaining it to them. How does one go through life like this?

I'm done with this conversation but before I go I'd like to direct y'all to the TikTok post in the link below. I know it won't change any minds, but please watch if you're even remotely interested in the points I've tried to get across.

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

 

[Practical Pig]

And before anybody says anything about me not realizing how offensive Splash Mountain is because I'm not black.

There's been so much discussion about Splash I don't pretend to remember everyone's opinions. But I don't remember people saying that the ride as exists is a depiction of racism. Only that the source the ride is based on has become a liability for Disney and that Disney was responding by trying to stay ahead of the issue and preserve a positive image in a changing social climate. I recall discussion being mostly about whether or not Disney should do it.

My own position, BTW, is that when Splash was designed, every trace of anything that could be considered racist was very carefully avoided. There is nothing offensive in the ride that I can see. But it was inevitable in this evolving society that Disney was going to distance themselves as much as possible from Song of the South, and the ride was doomed.

I just don't remember any audible volume of voices crying "Splash is Racist."

 

[Brer Panther]

I don't believe I've named anyone specifically, nor am I even really talking about Splash Mountain in this instance. I don't believe I've said much of anything about Splash Mountain in this thread.

For this is not, despite the best efforts of some, Splash Mountain Topic # 37.

Yeah, sorry. Let's stop talking about this and just stick to talking about the Jungle Cruise changes.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

And you would know this to be true how?

I'll wait.

Well not my best effort but here's an example for you.

Sorry, did I keep you waiting too long for this?

 

[Brer Oswald]

I really think the degree of "you're racist for liking it" rhetoric is vastly overstated. I don't really see any of that. Perhaps I'm not thorough enough in my forum-deep dives. Almost no one has actually said that.

I can only speak for myself on this. From personal experience it isn’t overstated. However, the claims come from other, more easily accessible platforms, with virtually zero claims on here. So, after my experience with receiving by all that on the other platforms, I came here to vent about it on here, where the people with opposing opinions are generally more respectful and avoid attacking one’s character. Perhaps it would be more suited to take my concerns to those platforms, but I have, in the most mild form possible, and I was mocked for it.

I want people to learn from my experience. Not just the fact that those people that bully others with that rhetoric actually do exist, but also the fact that I handled myself remarkably poor. Even someone like myself can recognize my mistakes, recover, and handle future discussions in a more tactful manner.

It is becoming incredibly common for people to “false flag” others with overused/inappropriate terms solely due to a difference of opinion. It is up to us to call that out, even if they use it in a way that supports our opinions. None of that stuff encourages intellectual discussions, and it certainly doesn’t make our argument any more convincing to those that disagree with us.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Thank you. Folks are now making things up to make themselves appear bullied.

It’s Twitter. The things aren’t made up, but they aren’t coming from any posters on here. I tried to explain my personal experience in my previous post.

I’m guilty of venting it on here last year. I don’t think I pointed any fingers, but I definitely got carried away and vented about my thoughts while also replying to other people’s posts. So I am sorry for that, but I do want to thank all of you I’ve talked to I’m the past 8 months for being an open ear. I come on here without the fear of being “bullied” by a mob of 15-23 year olds behind faceless accounts, being led by their “Disfluencer” leader. So thank you, again.

I worry that people are parroting the things I said last year, which were only applicable to the group on Twitter. Please don’t guys. Don’t play the victim when nobody is calling you racist.

 

[Disney Analyst]

But the thing is I’d actually be down to have a Zoom call and chat with folks here. Excuse me, SOME of the folks here. Let me be a little more specific.

I’m down if you’re down.

I’m in. 100%