Jungle Cruise Update

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I do pretty great impersonation. Wish we could upload audio files.

That would be epic

 

[Californian Elitist]

it has always been my opinion. You have told me many times people would leave Splash Mountain feeling non inclusive due to the ride's racism. You have said you have seen it first hand and I called you out saying no you have not. That no one has ever walked off that ride not smiling.

You have a history of attempting to pass your opinion as fact.

No I haven’t. What are you talking about? Something I have witnessed is multiple children walking off Snow White in tears from fear. Unless my memory is jumbled, I’ve never said people left Splash feeling non-inclusive.

How would I even know something like that, unless I was a Splash ride operator and heard it first-hand for guests or took a survey?

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

You have a history of attempting to pass your opinion as fact.

No I haven’t. What are you talking about? Something I have witnessed is multiple children walking off Snow White in tears from fear. Unless my memory is jumbled, I’ve never said people left Splash feeling non-inclusive.

How would I even know something like that, unless I was a Splash ride operator and heard it first-hand for guests or took a survey?

You did say it. It was so long ago I am not going to try to find the exact quote in the mess those Splash Mountain threads became so we can drop that. Sometimes the things I say are facts. Sometimes my opinion can coincide with facts. But every take I have is obviously my opinion. Let's agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You did say it. It was so long ago I am not going to try to find the exact quote in the mess those Splash Mountain threads became so we can drop that. Sometimes the things I say are facts. Sometimes my opinion can coincide with facts. But every take I have is obviously my opinion. Let's agree to disagree on this topic.

I’m glad you’ve matured since you first joined and can now acknowledge when an opinion is actually an opinion and not a fact.

We’ll see if you can find something. I’m curious.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

I’m glad you’ve matured since you first joined and can now acknowledge when an opinion is actually an opinion and not a fact.

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We’ll see if you can find something. I’m curious.

Like I said it is something you did say but I don't have the time or energy to go find it nor want to. So it is a point I have agreed to drop. I have always been a mature person but its ok to have silly and serious posts. Everyone is a summer and a winter.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Like I said it is something you did say but I don't have the time or energy to go find it nor want to. So it is a point I have agreed to drop. I have always been a mature person but its ok to have silly and serious posts. Everyone is a summer and a winter.

You won’t find anything because there’s nothing there.

Have a good evening.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

You won’t find anything because there’s nothing there.

Have a good evening.

You have a good night too Raven

 

[SuddenStorm]

I wish there was a way to give Jungle Cruise a more exciting climax. People say there is some fire effect in HK or something. That could work. Or maybe just enclosing the last bit in some pitch black ruins as we hear bats flying all around us. Might make it a little less kid friendly though. Lol

I thought the end of the ride was the best part... the return to civilization!

 

[TP2000]

Sure, it’s just ride. But it’s not alone. It is also just movies, and television, and graphic arts, and theater, and jokes, and so you get to where we are now where the default depiction of a number of peoples is negative.

You also get to where we are now, where no one can laugh at themselves and Jerry Seinfeld refuses to play college campuses because no one there has a sense of humor. Or if they do have a sense of humor, they have to hide it so they don't get kicked out of the dorms.

 

[TP2000]

I thought the end of the ride was the best part... the return to civilization!

That line is probably toast. History. Erased.

Because that line implies that Africa and South America and Asia is not as civilized as Disneyland USA. You are racist for even typing it! Or so the current fashionable tastemakers would say.

Honestly, I used to think it was a minor miracle that Disneyland escaped the period of 1968-1971 when the world went nutso and Yippies invaded and something as pure Americana as Disneyland was seen as the evil enemy by many very fashionable people in academia and the media, and maybe even an edia or two I've never heard of.

But today? In 2020-2021 and beyond? I have no words. The Jungle Cruise as designed by Walt Disney and Marc Davis is described as "negative" by official Disney press releases. Abraham Lincoln is now a racist evil white man that must be erased, any high school labeled Lincoln High is racist, and President Lincoln's show (that Walt was so personally proud of) on Main Street USA is likely headed to Yesterland. Heck, even Main Street USA is not immune; it's a representation of White Supremacy and all the evil that the USA represents. People in this very thread are itching to move to Canada.

Because.... the current Canadian Prime Minister who appeared repeatedly in Blackface in the 1990's and who has only vaccinated less than one third the amount of his citizens as the USA is somehow better? The mind boggles at that. But here we are.

And why is it that disgruntled liberal Americans always threaten to move to Canada (but never actually do), but they never mention Mexico? Is it racist that they automatically default to a country that is 81% white? Why not pick somewhere more diverse? Odd how that one always works. I'm moving to Canada! (Uh, no you're not. Trust me. You don't qualify for their strict immigration laws.)

I wonder if a place like Disneyland can even survive this Woke onslaught? Or, if Disneyland does survive to ring in 2023, will there be anything recognizable left besides Star Wars Land, a Starbucks, and a DVC cart?

 

[SuddenStorm]

That line is probably toast. History. Erased.

Because that line implies that Africa and South America and Asia is not as civilized as Disneyland USA. You are racist for even typing it! Or so the current fashionable tastemakers would say.

Honestly, I used to think it was a minor miracle that Disneyland escaped the period of 1968-1971 when the world went nutso and Yippies invaded and something as pure Americana as Disneyland was seen as the evil enemy by many very fashionable people in academia and the media, and maybe even an edia or two I've never heard of.

But today? In 2020-2021 and beyond? I have no words. The Jungle Cruise as designed by Walt Disney and Marc Davis is described as "negative" by official Disney press releases. Abraham Lincoln is now a racist evil white man that must be erased, any high school labeled Lincoln High is racist, and President Lincoln's show (that Walt was so personally proud of) on Main Street USA is likely headed to Yesterland. Heck, even Main Street USA is not immune; it's a representation of White Supremacy and all the evil that the USA represents. People in this very thread are itching to move to Canada, where the Covid vaccination rates are less than one third what they are in the USA, or some such incomprehensible train of thought.

Because.... the current Canadian Prime Minister who appeared repeatedly in Blackface in the 1990's and who has only vaccinated less than one third the percentage of his citizens as the USA is somehow better? The mind boggles at that. But here we are.

And why is it that disgruntled liberal Americans always threaten to move to Canada (but never actually do), but they never mention Mexico? Is it racist that they automatically default to a country that is 81% white? Why not pick somewhere more diverse? Odd how that one always works. I'm moving to Canada! (Uh, no you're not. Trust me. You don't qualify for their strict immigration laws.)

I wonder if a place like Disneyland can even survive this Woke onslaught? Or, if Disneyland does survive to ring in 2023, will there be anything recognizable left besides Star Wars Land, a Starbucks, and a DVC cart?

Yep, the planned changes go beyond just removing the African Natives from the attraction. The script as it exists today is based on a script Marc Davis wrote back in the '60s (if I remember correct). Yes, there's a lot of flexibility and changes over the years- but, unless I'm mistaken, that's where many of the popular jokes originate. But with this new skipper story line, I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a number of changes made to what's expected from the skipper spiel. Which could be really good, or really bad. And after seeing what Disney did to Fantasmic, Pirates, Tower of Terror- I expect to be at least somewhat let down by the execution. If they were switching out the three scenes with African Natives with newer vignettes, or using unused Marc Davis concepts, and leaving the rest of the attraction untouched I wouldn't be worried at all. But modern WDI does not understand storytelling in rides, and now the Jungle Cruise will suffer for it.

To see modern Imagineering describe the Jungle Cruise, one of Disney's defining attractions as negative in a press release is interesting and disheartening. Since it's basically saying that nothing in Disneyland is safe. And Disneyland is a park that relies heavily on nostalgia and history- so WDI and Disney need to be very careful in how they implement these changes.

It's surreal to think that there's a plausible future where Disneyland doesn't have Lincoln, Main Street USA, The Enchanted Tiki Room, the hanging corpse in Mansion, Splash Mountain- not because any of these are actually offensive, but because they might offend someone- is disheartening and depressing.

 

[TP2000]

Yep, the planned changes go beyond just removing the African Natives from the attraction. The script as it exists today is based on a script Marc Davis wrote back in the '60s (if I remember correct)....

I believe you are correct. Although we'd need a Jungle Cruise expert with a Doctoral level of understanding to confirm that. But I believe you are correct; the bulk of what we know of the Jungle Cruise spiel today is directly attributable to the 1960's script based on Marc Davis's famous Imagineering.

To see modern Imagineering describe the Jungle Cruise, one of Disney's defining attractions as negative in a press release is interesting and disheartening. Since it's basically saying that nothing in Disneyland is safe. And Disneyland is a park that relies heavily on nostalgia and history- so WDI and Disney need to be very careful in how they implement these changes.

Thank you. That was the part that rubbed me the wrong way. The use of the phrase "negative depictions" in the official Disney press release.

Whatever Burbank intern that's left in the Communications department, and whatever WDI executive working from home on Cabernet fueled Zoom calls that approved his work before hitting the Send button, backed that bus up right over Marc Davis and Walt Disney and dozens of other dead Imagineers from the 20th century that designed and plussed that attraction out of love and pure talent.

There's a bunch of other words or phrases they could have used that would have more accurately depicted the changes coming to Jungle Cruise. But instead they went with the sloppy and hurtful "negative". Shame on them.

It's surreal to think that there's a plausible future where Disneyland doesn't have Lincoln, Main Street USA, The Enchanted Tiki Room, the hanging corpse in Mansion, Splash Mountain- not because any of these are actually offensive, but because they might offend someone- is disheartening and depressing.

Abraham Lincoln is persona non grata now in San Francisco and Portland other fashionable cities of the far left. When you consider how low that bar has been lowered that Abe Lincoln is now considered a "racist", I can't imagine how the Tiki Room or Main Street USA or the Haunted Mansion survives that same culture of erasure and revision. No one, and no thing, is safe. Almost all must be erased and replaced. Autopia? Small World? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? Casey Jr.? All of Frontierland and most of New Orleans Square? Is the seatbelt lecture we get from Salah in Indiana Jones to be replaced because they made Salah do an exaggerated Indian accent?

What about the park's daily Flag Retreat ceremony? That seems rife with White Supremacy and Colonialism and Hate.

It was a slippery slope once they claimed a singing chicken log ride was racist.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I believe you are correct. Although we'd need a Jungle Cruise expert with a Doctoral level of understanding to confirm that. But I believe you are correct; the bulk of what know of the Jungle Cruise spiel today is directly attributable to the 1960's script based on Marc Davis's famous Imagineering.



Thank you. That was the part that rubbed me the wrong way. The use of the phrase "negative depictions" in the official Disney press release.

Whatever Burbank intern that's left in the Communications department, and whatever WDI executive that approved his work before hitting the Send button, backed that bus up right over Marc Davis and Walt Disney and dozens of other dead Imagineers from the 20th century that designed and plussed that attraction out of love and pure talent.

There's a bunch of other words or phrases they could have used that would have more accurately depicted the changes coming to Jungle Cruise. But instead they went with the sloppy and hurtful "negative". Shame on them.


Abraham Lincoln is persona non grata now in San Francisco and Portland other fashionable cities of the far left. When you consider how low that bar has been lowered that Abe Lincoln is now considered a "racist", I can't imagine how the Tiki Room or Main Street USA or the Haunted Mansion survives that same culture of erasure and revision. No one, and no thing, is safe. Almost all must be erased and replaced. Autopia? Small World? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? Casey Jr.? All of Frontierland and most of New Orleans Square? Is the seatbelt lecture we get from Salah in Indiana Jones to be replaced because they made Salah do an exaggerated Indian accent?

What about the park's daily Flag Retreat ceremony? That seems rife with White Supremacy and Colonialism and Hate.

It was a slippery slope once they claimed a singing chicken log ride was racist.

This definitely isn't the year to be a Splash Mountain fan, or a Jungle Cruise fan. And soon we can't be Tiki Room fans, or Lincoln fans. Since that implies you like something that's racist, and are therefore racist- not for any action or bias, but for liking a ride with frogs and chickens that sing. Or a ride where the highlight is literally someone saying "The backside of water" with a burned out, sarcastic tone since everyone on the boat's heard it a million times.

Heck, the Jungle Cruise has a cult following behind it. There's skippers that run a podcast called Tales From the Jungle Crews, but of course now that's just a bunch of skippers talking about all the great times they had working an attraction that is actually negative and a blight on the company's history.

What do we think the chances of Disney distancing themselves from Walt is? Since creative decisions made during his lifetime are at the root of many of these negative attractions? And Mickey, who has a few cartoons Disney probably wishes didn't get made, because caricatures and stereotypes were (and still are) prevalent in animation?

Disneyland has a level of popularity that's unmatched in themed entertainment. Disney has yet to build a park that matches the popularity of Walt's original. And it hasn't had a new 'classic' built since '95, and many of the creatives and management working at the park then are gone. Today's WDI and TDA inherited the park's popularity, and have spent much of their marketing dollars monetizing guest nostalgia for those early years. But now, that park they inherited is negative. And instead of spending their budget fixing areas of the park that are in desperate need of fixing- the Launch Bay and Tomorrowland being the biggest offender, they're spending money altering and outright removing popular attractions.

Oh, and much of TDA is still furloughed. Entertainment is gone. Thousands of hourly cast members have been living off of unemployment for months since Disney laid them off- but this is what they have a budget for? Making significant changes to two of the most beloved attractions ever?

 

[_caleb]

But today? In 2020-2021 and beyond? I have no words. The Jungle Cruise as designed by Walt Disney and Marc Davis is described as "negative" by official Disney press releases.

Scenes from the the Jungle Cruise, not the entire ride. And here’s a link to Disney’s press release. Not mention of the word, negative there. Maybe you’re referring to the announcement of the project at D23, which does use the word, but the quote is:

​

“But I want to make sure people know we are not changing the whole Jungle Cruise. This is not a re-envisioning of the entire attraction. It’s the Jungle Cruise you know and love, with the skippers still leading the way, and at the same time, we’re addressing the negative depictions of “natives.” So that’s one of the scenes we’re going to go in and change.”​

Abraham Lincoln is now a racist evil white man that must be erased, any high school labeled Lincoln High is racist, and President Lincoln's show (that Walt was so personally proud of) on Main Street USA is likely headed to Yesterland.

I’m not sure where you get the idea that Abraham Lincoln is racist, but you’re smart enough to recognize that initiatives to rename schools and remove monuments is much more complicated than you present it here.

If you take down statues/rename schools named after racists who fought to own and exploit people, the question then becomes, “how do we decide who is worthy for a monument or to have a school named after them?“ Many communities now are saying it’s better to just not build monuments to individuals or name schools after individuals at all.

When you deliberately exaggerate and mischaracterize the perspectives you disagree with, it might whip others up into a frenzy, but it also makes it seem like you don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Again I disagree with your theory there is "racism" in the rides at all. It's not that I "don't see it". you guys keep saying that as if you guys have such a higher understanding than the rest of us, but what you don't comprehend or are refusing to comprehend is we DO get what you are saying and just flat out disagree. Just because I have a differing view does not mean I "need to do research" etc. You are not more "enlightened" socially than the rest of us. I disagree with your take. Simple as that. And you won't convince me of your point of view otherwise.

One cannot negate unbiased facts with their opinions. Either the people in charge of designing Disneyland, who were predominately if not entirely white, excluded the contributions and perspectives of non-white Americans or they did not. The fact is they did. That is not a theory, sir.

 

[Californian Elitist]

1. It’s been obvious that nothing at Disneyland is 100% safe for decades. I shouldn’t have to mention the obvious, but the park has gone through countless changes since 1955, whether it’s updating/changing attractions, restaurants, aesthetics, etc. or removing something or adding something. Folks should be used to this by now.

2. The argument that history is being “erased” is quite far-fetched, ludicrous, and simply false. It’s a dramatic response.

 

[mikeanabean]

i guess this type of post and comments was the reason Yahoo stopped allowing comments For news articles. the “ I know more than you“ type of opinions are very exhausting and is a way show the persons true character. some of you might need some professional help if you cannot find fun in anything and always trying to be super serious and hyper-opinionated on everything. If I get kick out for that oh well.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

How much you all wanna bet animatronics will be replaced with cardboard cutouts like at 3 Cabelleros? Look at Disney, continuing the great legacy of papa Chapek.

 

[el_super]

some of you might need some professional help if you cannot find fun in anything and always trying to be super serious and hyper-opinionated on everything. If I get kick out for that oh well.

I know it is still too soon, but I really hope people find some fun in the new Jungle Cruise.

 

[_caleb]

i guess this type of post and comments was the reason Yahoo stopped allowing comments For news articles. the “ I know more than you“ type of opinions are very exhausting and is a way show the persons true character. some of you might need some professional help if you cannot find fun in anything and always trying to be super serious and hyper-opinionated on everything. If I get kick out for that oh well.

Do you honestly think nobody here knows more than you do? I sort of assume everyone here is smarter than me. Until they prove otherwise with a bunch of ignorant comments.

Some of us enjoy have good conversation about Disney parks. I find it fun to interact with people I may disagree with. I even enjoy the serious ones, as long as people are respectful and at least try to engage in good faith.