Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[Poseidon Quest]

The park still seems to be in transition from what it was to whatever it’s going to be. This is why blanket “it doesn’t fit” criticisms seem unwarranted (or, at least premature). Maybe there are NO plans to connect these areas beyond what’s already been done. But I’ve been under the impression that the reorganization of Future World into World Nature, World Discovery, and World Celebration isn’t complete.

It could not be any clearer that there is no vision for Epcot going forward. The new gardens were slapped together because they needed to get something done quickly.

Epcot has no theme, other than "the magic of possibility", because the company does not care. The vision for the park is a giant billboard for Disney+ and the company has achieved that.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I still think the best option for what we’ve been left with at the moment would be to make all of former Future World into World Celebration, with each of the four quadrants representing a theme—nature and conservation for the northwest, imagination and inspiration for the southwest, invention and creation for the southeast, and exploration for the northeast. Keep the green and red theming for the current Nature and Discovery areas and blue for the central corridor, but shift the southeast toward orange/yellow and the southwest toward teal. Adjust planter layout and theming accordingly (like, perhaps add more rockwork to the planters in the nature area, for instance).

I actually don't hate that idea. You could actually pull the colors from the new ring logo to create a new set of ideas. And, each attraction could then tie in that way. I offer that just as an idea.

I actually think the separation was too "half done" to work. So, stepping back like you suggest would be a much better idea.

I still think Epcot should be anchored in the real world somehow, and the Guardians story is a step too far into fantasy. But, you could easily update that with a "Mission 2" or "New Exhibit" to bring it back more to our real world somehow. The infrastructure works great (save for the Big Blue Box, but another story). Same with the World Showcase issues (i.e. showcasing cultures that inspired some of Disney's best stories...)

 

[_caleb]

I don’t think it fits Epcot period. I mean they did try with the entrance and all but it’s such a stretch. I also think the attraction isn’t even as good as the mummy at universal so there’s that hot take haha.

Again, are you talking about old Epcot, or new Epcot? The move to these new "neighborhoods" is a pretty significant change in the overall direction of the parks. Still a "permanent World's Fair," but no longer future oriented in the same way that it was.

 

[_caleb]

It could not be any clearer that there is no vision for Epcot going forward. The new gardens were slapped together because they needed to get something done quickly.

So all the concept art, plans, announcements, construction, signage, and changes at Epcot make it clear that there's no vision for Epcot? You might not like or understand the vision, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Epcot has no theme, other than "the magic of possibility",

This isn't a theme? Or is it just one you don't like?

The vision for the park is a giant billboard for Disney+ and the company has achieved that.

So now there IS a vision for Epcot, it's just that it serve as "a giant billboard for Disney+?"

Maybe people just aren't careful with the wording of their posts, but stuff like this makes it hard to have a discussion about what Disney is ACTUALLY doing with Epcot.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Again, are you talking about old Epcot, or new Epcot?

For guardians I’m talking about any park other than studios.

I’m not exactly sure what the new Epcot is.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Posts like this are why I’m dismissive of a lot of the criticism I read here. Are we just using “it doesn’t fit” to mean “I don’t like it?”

I find a decent amount of the criticism unrealistic.

If you were to bulldoze the whole park and start over, by all means, make your points and be fastidious.

That's not happening. To replace any one attraction with any other (different) attraction that's going to perfectly fit is a longshot. Can it happen? Sure. Should it be expected in every instance? That's not realistic, IMO.

Then the business has a choice: add the Frozen attraction, or nitpick between Arendelle and Arendal. Add a minor water attraction near the Living Seas or..?

Again, some of us make the perfect the enemy of the good. It's pointless. This isn't philosophical. It's nuts and bolts.

So either you never change anything, you flatten the whole thing and start over, or you do things that line up pretty well but maybe not perfectly using the properties to which you have access and are popular.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Finally saw this a few weeks ago, both during the day and at night. During the day I feel it is not worth it and it really doesn't feel like it belongs where it is.

At night, however, it is very beautiful and worth it due to the lighting. It actually even, slightly, feels in-line with Epcot due to the combination of technology and "nature" on demonstration to you.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So either you never change anything, you flatten the whole thing and start over, or you do things that line up pretty well but maybe not perfectly using the properties to which you have access and are popular.

Well I definitely don’t want them to flatten Epcot!

I think the France pavilion and Seas Pavilion are ideal - they add popular IP while still fitting in with the vision of Epcot.

Frozen and Guardians get a fail.

Moana is in the middle. The concept fits Epcot, but it feels out of place currently but that’s more to the design around the area that could change in a future master plan.

 

[UNCgolf]

Well I definitely don’t want them to flatten Epcot!

I think the France pavilion and Seas Pavilion are ideal - they add popular IP while still fitting in with the vision of Epcot.

Frozen and Guardians get a fail.

Moana is in the middle. The concept fits Epcot, but it feels out of place currently but that’s more to the design around the area that could change in a future master plan.

If you solely mean Turtle Talk, then yes -- the Nemo ride at the Seas is a disaster, though, and was a major part of screwing up the whole pavilion theme.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If you solely mean Turtle Talk, then yes -- the Nemo ride at the Seas is a disaster, though, and was a major part of screwing up the whole pavilion theme.

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

 

[doctornick]

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

The old ride was terrible and boring, just basically riding past the aquariums. Which then you got out and saw from the other side.

The neat thing about the original pavilion setup was the hydrolaters and the basic conceit of traveling down to a sea base at the bottom of the ocean. Both the film in the beginning and the ride were IMHO the weakest stuff in classic Epcot and were good targets to be replaced. It would have been nice to keep Seabase Alpha as an idea and just integrate Nemo into that though.

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

It didn't really have a ride -- the SeaCabs weren't intended to be a separate attraction (which I'm sure is a big part of the reason the Nemo ride is so terrible; that space was never intended to function as a standalone ride); they were part of the overall concept of the pavilion and as a whole concept that pavilion is among the best things WDI has ever done.

The Nemo ride is both bad and unpopular, and is a worse use of the space than just uncovering the existing aquarium windows so you can see the sea life. Adding it made the pavilion worse.

 

[UNCgolf]

The old ride was terrible and boring, just basically riding past the aquariums. Which then you got out and saw from the other side.

The neat thing about the original pavilion setup was the hydrolaters and the basic conceit of traveling down to a sea base at the bottom of the ocean. Both the film in the beginning and the ride were IMHO the weakest stuff in classic Epcot and were good targets to be replaced. It would have been nice to keep Seabase Alpha as an idea and just integrate Nemo into that though.

It was an integral part of the Seabase Alpha concept, though, and while the concept could still function without the Seacabs, the pavilion definitely lost something without them. They were transport into the Seabase along the ocean floor and really did a lot towards selling the whole theme.

It doesn't really make sense to judge it as as a ride because it wasn't ever intended to be a separate attraction -- e.g., it would have been nonsensical to include it on FastPass or Genie+ (not that would have necessarily stopped Disney). If they wanted to build a Nemo ride, they should have built it beside or behind the pavilion instead of taking what was essentially non-attraction space and trying to shoehorn something in there.

Seeing into the aquarium was more interesting than the absymal Nemo ride, which is one of the worst things at WDW (and I don't think I'm even out on a limb there, considering it's almost always a walk-on; most people just skip it and go into the aquarium). At the very least, they could have made an attraction that actually tied into the seabase concept and used all of the existing windows with character projections or something along those lines -- that would have been a much better attraction than the half-baked existing one.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Seeing into the aquarium was more interesting than the absymal Nemo ride, which is one of the worst things at WDW (and I don't think I'm even out on a limb there, considering it's almost always a walk-on; most people just skip it and go into the aquarium)

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

 

[UNCgolf]

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

I didn't say it was the worst, just among the worst... all of those are also among the worst!

 

[doctornick]

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

I think the Nemo ride is okay-ish. We do it every trip and I don't feel like it is a waste or anything. Better than Imagination I would agree (though not Mexico). I do think part of the issue with the ride (and the pavilion in general) is that it is tucked into a corner and not really easily accessible; I do wonder if having JoW near will increase the draw to the Seas as well by making it more worthwhile to travel to the area of the park.

That said, I think a good option would have been using Nemo characters in a more educational fashion (e.g. Mr. Ray teaching about the oceans). And there's no reason they couldn't have kept the Hydrolators and just used Nemo to replace the original ride in a way that the animated sea creatures escort you to Seabase Alpha

 

[Tom Morrow]

Does it "fit" with EPCOT (or what it's supposed to be, anyway):

Frozen: Nope. Not at all, and probably the worst offender. Arendelle is not Norway. Being Norwegian inspired doesn't matter if the actual location is still fictional so I'm not really sure how they could make the IP work.

Ratatouille: Nope. It takes place in Paris, but the ride is just you running from danger. They could have made it work if they came up with a new concept - Remy takes you on a tour of Paris culture and cuisine, while dodging danger. Boom, done.

Nemo: Nope. The ride is just a recap of the film. They could have made it work by having it be, say, a field trip with Mr. Ray touring coral reefs or something.

Journey of Water: Not really. The edutainment value they attempted to shoe-horn in about the flow of water is superficial at best.

Guardians: Nope. They present what is basically a parody of an old school Epcot pavilion. If the actual ride had something of value to say it might be different, but instead you're just outrunning the bad guy.

Gran Fiesta Tour: Actually, yes! You're trying to find Donald, but Donald is too busy enjoying the sights and culture of Mexico. It's the first IP makeover and the only one they did right.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think the Nemo ride is okay-ish. We do it every trip and I don't feel like it is a waste or anything. Better than Imagination I would agree (though not Mexico).

That said, I think a good option would have been using Nemo characters in a more educational fashion (e.g. Mr. Ray teaching about the oceans). And there's no reason they couldn't have kept the Hydrolators and just used Nemo to replace the original ride in a way that the animated sea creatures escort you to Seabase Alpha

This is what they should have done if they were determined to shoehorn something in to that space (and as I said above, I don't think the Seacabs were ever a ride in the traditional sense, and don't think the location was really conducive to anything else). That actually would have worked relatively well, and kept the aquarium views too.

Otherwise they needed to build a Nemo attraction from scratch that didn't have such significant constraints.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Finally saw this a few weeks ago, both during the day and at night. During the day I feel it is not worth it and it really doesn't feel like it belongs where it is.

At night, however, it is very beautiful and worth it due to the lighting. It actually even, slightly, feels in-line with Epcot due to the combination of technology and "nature" on demonstration to you.

Go back when it’s 90° out and see if you like it better during the day.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Does it "fit" with EPCOT (or what it's supposed to be, anyway):

Frozen: Nope. Not at all, and probably the worst offender. Arendelle is not Norway. Being Norwegian inspired doesn't matter if the actual location is still fictional so I'm not really sure how they could make the IP work.

Ratatouille: Nope. It takes place in Paris, but the ride is just you running from danger. They could have made it work if they came up with a new concept - Remy takes you on a tour of Paris culture and cuisine, while dodging danger. Boom, done.

Nemo: Nope. The ride is just a recap of the film. They could have made it work by having it be, say, a field trip with Mr. Ray touring coral reefs or something.

Journey of Water: Not really. The edutainment value they attempted to shoe-horn in about the flow of water is superficial at best.

Guardians: Nope. They present what is basically a parody of an old school Epcot pavilion. If the actual ride had something of value to say it might be different, but instead you're just outrunning the bad guy.

Gran Fiesta Tour: Actually, yes! You're trying to find Donald, but Donald is too busy enjoying the sights and culture of Mexico. It's the first IP makeover and the only one they did right.

I guess I must have a much better time than you at Epcot.

But, gee, how will I ever learn about Paris?