EPCOT Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[TrainsOfDisney]

So either you never change anything, you flatten the whole thing and start over, or you do things that line up pretty well but maybe not perfectly using the properties to which you have access and are popular.

Well I definitely don’t want them to flatten Epcot!

I think the France pavilion and Seas Pavilion are ideal - they add popular IP while still fitting in with the vision of Epcot.

Frozen and Guardians get a fail.

Moana is in the middle. The concept fits Epcot, but it feels out of place currently but that’s more to the design around the area that could change in a future master plan.

 

[UNCgolf]

Well I definitely don’t want them to flatten Epcot!

I think the France pavilion and Seas Pavilion are ideal - they add popular IP while still fitting in with the vision of Epcot.

Frozen and Guardians get a fail.

Moana is in the middle. The concept fits Epcot, but it feels out of place currently but that’s more to the design around the area that could change in a future master plan.

If you solely mean Turtle Talk, then yes -- the Nemo ride at the Seas is a disaster, though, and was a major part of screwing up the whole pavilion theme.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If you solely mean Turtle Talk, then yes -- the Nemo ride at the Seas is a disaster, though, and was a major part of screwing up the whole pavilion theme.

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

 

[doctornick]

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

The old ride was terrible and boring, just basically riding past the aquariums. Which then you got out and saw from the other side.

The neat thing about the original pavilion setup was the hydrolaters and the basic conceit of traveling down to a sea base at the bottom of the ocean. Both the film in the beginning and the ride were IMHO the weakest stuff in classic Epcot and were good targets to be replaced. It would have been nice to keep Seabase Alpha as an idea and just integrate Nemo into that though.

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s not a home run but it’s not a disaster. Actually…. I need to go watch martins video on the original seas pavilion cause I don’t even remember the old ride. I just remember standing in a room waiting for a hydrolator haha.

It didn't really have a ride -- the SeaCabs weren't intended to be a separate attraction (which I'm sure is a big part of the reason the Nemo ride is so terrible; that space was never intended to function as a standalone ride); they were part of the overall concept of the pavilion and as a whole concept that pavilion is among the best things WDI has ever done.

The Nemo ride is both bad and unpopular, and is a worse use of the space than just uncovering the existing aquarium windows so you can see the sea life. Adding it made the pavilion worse.

 

[UNCgolf]

The old ride was terrible and boring, just basically riding past the aquariums. Which then you got out and saw from the other side.

The neat thing about the original pavilion setup was the hydrolaters and the basic conceit of traveling down to a sea base at the bottom of the ocean. Both the film in the beginning and the ride were IMHO the weakest stuff in classic Epcot and were good targets to be replaced. It would have been nice to keep Seabase Alpha as an idea and just integrate Nemo into that though.

It was an integral part of the Seabase Alpha concept, though, and while the concept could still function without the Seacabs, the pavilion definitely lost something without them. They were transport into the Seabase along the ocean floor and really did a lot towards selling the whole theme.

It doesn't really make sense to judge it as as a ride because it wasn't ever intended to be a separate attraction -- e.g., it would have been nonsensical to include it on FastPass or Genie+ (not that would have necessarily stopped Disney). If they wanted to build a Nemo ride, they should have built it beside or behind the pavilion instead of taking what was essentially non-attraction space and trying to shoehorn something in there.

Seeing into the aquarium was more interesting than the absymal Nemo ride, which is one of the worst things at WDW (and I don't think I'm even out on a limb there, considering it's almost always a walk-on; most people just skip it and go into the aquarium). At the very least, they could have made an attraction that actually tied into the seabase concept and used all of the existing windows with character projections or something along those lines -- that would have been a much better attraction than the half-baked existing one.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Seeing into the aquarium was more interesting than the absymal Nemo ride, which is one of the worst things at WDW (and I don't think I'm even out on a limb there, considering it's almost always a walk-on; most people just skip it and go into the aquarium)

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

 

[UNCgolf]

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

I didn't say it was the worst, just among the worst... all of those are also among the worst!

 

[doctornick]

I kinda like it, it’s better than the mermaid ride. I don’t think it’s worse than the Mexico boat ride either, or even the current figment.

I think the Nemo ride is okay-ish. We do it every trip and I don't feel like it is a waste or anything. Better than Imagination I would agree (though not Mexico). I do think part of the issue with the ride (and the pavilion in general) is that it is tucked into a corner and not really easily accessible; I do wonder if having JoW near will increase the draw to the Seas as well by making it more worthwhile to travel to the area of the park.

That said, I think a good option would have been using Nemo characters in a more educational fashion (e.g. Mr. Ray teaching about the oceans). And there's no reason they couldn't have kept the Hydrolators and just used Nemo to replace the original ride in a way that the animated sea creatures escort you to Seabase Alpha

 

[Tom Morrow]

Does it "fit" with EPCOT (or what it's supposed to be, anyway):

Frozen: Nope. Not at all, and probably the worst offender. Arendelle is not Norway. Being Norwegian inspired doesn't matter if the actual location is still fictional so I'm not really sure how they could make the IP work.

Ratatouille: Nope. It takes place in Paris, but the ride is just you running from danger. They could have made it work if they came up with a new concept - Remy takes you on a tour of Paris culture and cuisine, while dodging danger. Boom, done.

Nemo: Nope. The ride is just a recap of the film. They could have made it work by having it be, say, a field trip with Mr. Ray touring coral reefs or something.

Journey of Water: Not really. The edutainment value they attempted to shoe-horn in about the flow of water is superficial at best.

Guardians: Nope. They present what is basically a parody of an old school Epcot pavilion. If the actual ride had something of value to say it might be different, but instead you're just outrunning the bad guy.

Gran Fiesta Tour: Actually, yes! You're trying to find Donald, but Donald is too busy enjoying the sights and culture of Mexico. It's the first IP makeover and the only one they did right.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think the Nemo ride is okay-ish. We do it every trip and I don't feel like it is a waste or anything. Better than Imagination I would agree (though not Mexico).

That said, I think a good option would have been using Nemo characters in a more educational fashion (e.g. Mr. Ray teaching about the oceans). And there's no reason they couldn't have kept the Hydrolators and just used Nemo to replace the original ride in a way that the animated sea creatures escort you to Seabase Alpha

This is what they should have done if they were determined to shoehorn something in to that space (and as I said above, I don't think the Seacabs were ever a ride in the traditional sense, and don't think the location was really conducive to anything else). That actually would have worked relatively well, and kept the aquarium views too.

Otherwise they needed to build a Nemo attraction from scratch that didn't have such significant constraints.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Finally saw this a few weeks ago, both during the day and at night. During the day I feel it is not worth it and it really doesn't feel like it belongs where it is.

At night, however, it is very beautiful and worth it due to the lighting. It actually even, slightly, feels in-line with Epcot due to the combination of technology and "nature" on demonstration to you.

Go back when it’s 90° out and see if you like it better during the day.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Does it "fit" with EPCOT (or what it's supposed to be, anyway):

Frozen: Nope. Not at all, and probably the worst offender. Arendelle is not Norway. Being Norwegian inspired doesn't matter if the actual location is still fictional so I'm not really sure how they could make the IP work.

Ratatouille: Nope. It takes place in Paris, but the ride is just you running from danger. They could have made it work if they came up with a new concept - Remy takes you on a tour of Paris culture and cuisine, while dodging danger. Boom, done.

Nemo: Nope. The ride is just a recap of the film. They could have made it work by having it be, say, a field trip with Mr. Ray touring coral reefs or something.

Journey of Water: Not really. The edutainment value they attempted to shoe-horn in about the flow of water is superficial at best.

Guardians: Nope. They present what is basically a parody of an old school Epcot pavilion. If the actual ride had something of value to say it might be different, but instead you're just outrunning the bad guy.

Gran Fiesta Tour: Actually, yes! You're trying to find Donald, but Donald is too busy enjoying the sights and culture of Mexico. It's the first IP makeover and the only one they did right.

I guess I must have a much better time than you at Epcot.

But, gee, how will I ever learn about Paris?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I guess I must have a much better time than you at Epcot.

Who said they had a bad time at epcot? This is a discussion board discussing the parks and our opinion on how the company has chosen wisely and poorly over the years.

A couple of weeks ago I went to WDW for the sole reason of visiting Epcot for festival of the arts. 2 days at Epcot and I didn’t ride one ride. Had a wonderful time.

But I still see the flaws of how the park is expanding… I wasn’t walking around grumpy because of it. Although I did scratch my head at the new gardens area and the rusty trees. Haha.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

I don’t think it fits Epcot period. I mean they did try with the entrance and all but it’s such a stretch. I also think the attraction isn’t even as good as the mummy at universal so there’s that hot take haha.

Would you have preferred Tron? Would you say Tron would of fitted better?

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes, I enjoyed these additions and changes for what they are (except Ratatouille, which I think is a genuinely bad attraction). But in an alternate universe somewhere, there's a version of Epcot where a little more effort was put into making these changes work with the park rather than against it. I want parks to be a cohesive experience, and not just "Collection of IPs location A", "Collection of IPs location B", etc.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Would you have preferred Tron? Would you say Tron would have fitted better?

Yes and yes! I actually would have loved to see tron added to the celebration area and have a little outdoor run - fun for the riders and it would add some really cool kinetic energy.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

The new gardens were slapped together because they needed to get something done quickly.

Boy and the pace was over 5 years!

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes, and see here's why it's frustrating. 15 years ago every single one of these changes except Gran Fiesta Tour would have been used on these boards as a parody example of how bad things would have to get for Disney to even consider it. Nemo was met with this reaction, or "as long as they don't continue this trend then it's okay I guess since it revived a dead pavilion". So today having a bunch of Disney park fans boldly stating that there is, in fact, nothing to critique and we're just choosing to be bitter demonstrates a pretty big shift downward in what is regarded as quality from Disney Parks and how powerful Disney's marketing is. They have successfully swayed the popular opinion to "actually, people criticizing the forced IP additions are wrong and what they are wishing for was never great." But we know it was great, or WDW wouldn't have become the number one resort in the world.

So yeah, I can and do find some enjoyment in these additions, but I know that a better version was possible.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

Does it "fit" with EPCOT (or what it's supposed to be, anyway):

Frozen: Nope. Not at all, and probably the worst offender. Arendelle is not Norway. Being Norwegian inspired doesn't matter if the actual location is still fictional so I'm not really sure how they could make the IP work.

Ratatouille: Nope. It takes place in Paris, but the ride is just you running from danger. They could have made it work if they came up with a new concept - Remy takes you on a tour of Paris culture and cuisine, while dodging danger. Boom, done.

Nemo: Nope. The ride is just a recap of the film. They could have made it work by having it be, say, a field trip with Mr. Ray touring coral reefs or something.

Journey of Water: Not really. The edutainment value they attempted to shoe-horn in about the flow of water is superficial at best.

Guardians: Nope. They present what is basically a parody of an old school Epcot pavilion. If the actual ride had something of value to say it might be different, but instead you're just outrunning the bad guy.

Gran Fiesta Tour: Actually, yes! You're trying to find Donald, but Donald is too busy enjoying the sights and culture of Mexico. It's the first IP makeover and the only one they did right.

I love this! Full agree Gran Fiesta Tour is the only one they got right and is one of my most favorite must go on for me on any Epcot day.

Frozen:
As much as I love Frozen, it's annoying now know-ing about World of Frozen that WDW because of this result 90% will not get a World of Arrendale of it's own. Magic Kingdom could of become a headliner international park if it had this land. Magic Kingdom should have something to be proud of for once have something new and first that none other parks in the world don't have. Sure WDW has Epcot and Animal Kingdom but going by new things even if WDW was the first to ever get Frozen Ever After.

The Nemo idea and Ratatouille` Paris idea is spot on and would of given The Florida version of Ratatouille a unique component when we already don't have the Remy's restaurant.

Journey of Water is fine it just makes the entrance to Epcot look like Disney Park now. I don't care for Guardians yes the big blue building which gotten use to it but other than that the statue fits the pavilion aesthetic along with Mission Space.