Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[Animaniac93-98]

Slowly removing all the science and fun educational stuff. But, that doesn't sell merchandise.

The least attended Disney theme park in the world is the one that is nothing but IP rides and shows.

And its most successful new addition since opening was a ride not based on a Disney movie or TV show.

There is more to a theme park than what items you can put on a store shelf.

(Especially when Disney's habit is to stock whatever, wherever, regardless of what park or land the shop is in)

I say this because Disney has such a strong belief in their IP-only strategy that they fail to realize they've created a self-fulfilling prophecy where if they only build IP rides and sell character merch in their gift shops, that's the only thing their audience will respond too, despite proof otherwise from their own recent history (Soarin', Expedition Everest, Mystic Manor etc).

A Moana walk-through in this location was far from the only option, but the company has become so risk adverse that they thought this would be a modest investment that will yield a satisfactory return on investment in some form or another. It's unknown if that will be true given the prolonged construction timeline or if increased merch sales were really the result of this specific attraction, or Disney just stocking more Moana merch in their existing retail locations. The cause and effect of impulse buys will be hard to measure.

 

[BlakeW39]

The least attended Disney theme park in the world is the one that is nothing but IP rides and shows.

And its most successful new addition since opening was a ride not based on a Disney movie or TV show.

There is more to a theme park than what items you can put on a store shelf.

(Especially when Disney's habit is to stock whatever, wherever, regardless of what park or land the shop is in)

I say this because Disney has such a strong belief in their IP-only strategy that they fail to realize they've created a self-fulfilling prophecy where if they only build IP rides and sell character merch in their gift shops, that's the only thing their audience will respond too, despite proof otherwise from their own recent history (Soarin', Expedition Everest, Mystic Manor etc).

A Moana walk-through in this location was far from the only option, but the company has become so risk adverse that they thought this would be a modest investment that will yield a satisfactory return on investment in some form or another. It's unknown if that will be true given the prolonged construction timeline or if increased merch sales were really the result of this specific attraction, or Disney just stocking more Moana merch in their existing retail locations. The cause and effect of impulse buys will be hard to measure.

I will say this once more.

Disney's current business model is not sustainable. They simply cannot avoid creating new IP forever. I'm not just talking about the parks here.

This business strategy arose when Disney was allowed to accrue far too much IP.

But they can't keep using the same IP over and over again especially when the IPs themselves are rarely being given much respect, and simply being driven into the ground against fans' wishes.

The IP mandate for the parks probably won't last forever. But more importantly, the lack of creativity in the Disney company is not sustainable. I'll remind everyone when I end up being right

 

[SilentWindODoom]

Oof. Busy week for me.

Correct. The soul was the extraordinary visionaries taken to accomplish what the park's intended message was meant to be...

None of that... Test Track, Mission: Space, Space 220, and Soarin' all scream EPCOT to me as well while still reaching minds and expanding horizons... Even Awesome Planet does that... All while remaining true to EPCOT.

I wasn't saying any of that was the soul... although... You think those attractions fit into original EPCOT's oeuvre? Not the start of the end for coherent and soulful EP-

Was Moana placed in the right park?

Sorry... I promise this is my last poll on this. It's a heated topic for me! LOL! Just a note: This is not a discussion on Moana in Animal Kingdom (unless it directly relates to a point being made about the location in EPCOT)... I don't need a poll for that one. This is purely for the water...

forums.wdwmagic.com

O... okay. No room for discussion on the attraction in the thread for the attraction.

Wait... No... I ran to the end there to see if the conversation was still ongoing or if I'd be resurrecting a dead thread now that I'm back. Saw this gem.

Lion King was put into The Land pavilion to specifically educate people about the land. Moana is just doing Moana things in a park Moana doesn't belong in.

Never mind on the whole discussion. There's a willful desire to misunderstand the stated goal here. Just making stuff up.

When this “makeover” began, what were the primary issues facing EPCOT? In rough order of descending importance, I’d argue they were:

1) Lack of a coherent, guiding vision and theme for the park. This was far and away the most pressing concern.
2) The shameful state of several rides, most notably Imagination but also including Seas and the descent of SE.
3) The lack of desirable headliners and attractive capacity- the biggest rides, Soarin, TT, and especially Space, were notably lackluster.
4) The concrete expanses of the entry plaza and the Communicore area.

What has this “makeover” achieved? It has not only failed to address 1, the core reason for the park’s dysfunction, it has exacerbated the problem with a narratively incoherent GotG and the absurdly misplaced Moana. Point 2 has also been completely ignored. 3 has been somewhat addressed - GotG is a physically exciting ride and an overall positive addition, but it’s also deeply lacking in areas in which Disney rides are supposed to excel: theming, narrative, aesthetics, etc. Despite some improvement, point 3 remains an issue. Point 4 was addressed.

Had you told these boards fifteen years ago that this would be the final extent of the EPCOT makeover, posters would have been dubious or openly derisive. That’s without adding in the information that the process would take nearly a decade and, for much of that time, the full-priced park would be a difficult-to-navigate maze of construction walls. The scale of this “makeover’s” failure is truly impressive.

I don't know whether or not "The introduction to the park being poor-quality food and empty warehouses" counts as part of 4 or a subgroup of it. Nevertheless, the goal of the makeover was never to fix 1. At least, not in a meaningful way. I'd say the rebranding of lands and opening up of the back of the central plaza was a superficial attempt to make the park feel more coherent in terms of being a whole rather than two halves (with one being split into its own halves with a liminal hallway).

This whole plan's desire was to rid the park of dead zones. Draw to people through the World Showcase with attractions in the back. Draw people to the weird empty patch of the UK Pavilion. Replace what to many was an un-touched dead end where Energy and Wonders were. Replace the empty warehouse and make Seas not a dead end. Of course, even all of that didn't happen and we somehow wound up with an additional dead zone in Morocco, but they largely did what they wanted to.

We need more. Hopefully, we get more. Hopefully the way that they're featuring Imagination suggests possible future plans there. Hopefully we get *something* in the gold dome. I would have never expected them to take a bath on the Harmonious barges, but it's happening. Who knows what else may come?

 

[KikoKea]

Looking back at posts, it appears Iger (or someone at Disney) has said that once current projects, Moana and whatever is going on at the building that replaced the tabletop, are finished, that will complete the Epcot update. Is this correct??
(Sorry- last few months were a doozy in RL and I'm trying to get up to speed on the parks' goings on)

 

[Disstevefan1]

Looking back at posts, it appears Iger (or someone at Disney) has said that once current projects, Moana and whatever is going on at the building that replaced the tabletop, are finished, that will complete the Epcot update. Is this correct??
(Sorry- last few months were a doozy in RL and I'm trying to get up to speed on the parks' goings on)

Yes, the failed successful EPCOT renovation will be considered completed.

 

[James Alucobond]

Looking back at posts, it appears Iger (or someone at Disney) has said that once current projects, Moana and whatever is going on at the building that replaced the tabletop, are finished, that will complete the Epcot update. Is this correct??
(Sorry- last few months were a doozy in RL and I'm trying to get up to speed on the parks' goings on)

It completes the update of the park’s layout and core facilities. Doesn’t mean they won’t continue to deal with attractions that need attention.

 

[KikoKea]

Yes, the failed successful EPCOT renovation will be considered completed.

Wow! That is so disappointing.

It completes the update of the park’s layout and core facilities. Doesn’t mean they won’t continue to deal with attractions that need attention.

Well, I'm not holding my breath on their updating SE, Imagination, the Seas. And, poor Play!

Makes me wonder how the park execs are not embarrassed by the above.
Thank you both for responding.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Oof. Busy week for me.



I wasn't saying any of that was the soul... although... You think those attractions fit into original EPCOT's oeuvre? Not the start of the end for coherent and soulful EP-



O... okay. No room for discussion on the attraction in the thread for the attraction.

Wait... No... I ran to the end there to see if the conversation was still ongoing or if I'd be resurrecting a dead thread now that I'm back. Saw this gem.



Never mind on the whole discussion. There's a willful desire to misunderstand the stated goal here. Just making stuff up.



I don't know whether or not "The introduction to the park being poor-quality food and empty warehouses" counts as part of 4 or a subgroup of it. Nevertheless, the goal of the makeover was never to fix 1. At least, not in a meaningful way. I'd say the rebranding of lands and opening up of the back of the central plaza was a superficial attempt to make the park feel more coherent in terms of being a whole rather than two halves (with one being split into its own halves with a liminal hallway).

This whole plan's desire was to rid the park of dead zones. Draw to people through the World Showcase with attractions in the back. Draw people to the weird empty patch of the UK Pavilion. Replace what to many was an un-touched dead end where Energy and Wonders were. Replace the empty warehouse and make Seas not a dead end. Of course, even all of that didn't happen and we somehow wound up with an additional dead zone in Morocco, but they largely did what they wanted to.

We need more. Hopefully, we get more. Hopefully the way that they're featuring Imagination suggests possible future plans there. Hopefully we get *something* in the gold dome. I would have never expected them to take a bath on the Harmonious barges, but it's happening. Who knows what else may come?

All I've had to say about the attraction has been said. This is old discussion now.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

Good.

As for the update being over, we've come to expect a cycle of work around the parks, but what have we seen in terms of big changes in the other parks when it's another one's turn? Tron, of course, but all timelines were so weird over the last decade.

 

[Disstevefan1]

 

[tparris]

View attachment 711050

 

[BagOfGroceries]

View attachment 711061

You know it’s an issue when there are specific memes about it.

 

[Snow Queen 83]

If it was just a thematically accurate water area I'd have no problem with it. But Moana doesn't belong, they must have gotten the memo to squeeze her in as many parks as possible.

 

[MisterPenguin]

If it was just a thematically accurate water area I'd have no problem with it. But Moana doesn't belong, they must have gotten the memo to squeeze her in as many parks as possible.

You're not going to see IP-less attractions pretty much anymore in any theme park. Time to reset expectations.

 

[Snow Queen 83]

You're not going to see IP-less attractions pretty much anymore in any theme park. Time to reset expectations.

I'm alright with IP's in the park.

What I don't want is IP's that don't make sense for that certain park. If this was in Adventureland no one would have a problem with it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm alright with IP's in the park.

What I don't want is IP's that don't make sense for that certain park. If this was in Adventureland no one would have a problem with it.

What IP could be associated with a walk-thru edutational water attraction that would fit EPCOT that isn't Moana?

 

[Snow Queen 83]

What IP could be associated with a walk-thru edutational water attraction that would fit EPCOT that isn't Moana?

Finding Nemo would have worked.

or

they could have rethemed Innoventions.

 

[Snow Queen 83]

Epcot would have been better off with a Store, a Restaurant (or Starbucks) and an expanded Club Cool. Rather than water fountains themed to Moana.

 

[James Alucobond]

Finding Nemo would have worked.

Why is Nemo better than Moana?

 

[Snow Queen 83]

Why is Nemo better than Moana?

Because Moana fits with Adventureland not Epcot.

Also the front of the park is supposed to be about edutainment (at least it was) and have things that actually exist like marine life. That has seemed to be thrown out the window though. And now they are just putting things in wherever they want.