Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

[rreading]

FW is officially dead.

As much as I’ve always loved Epcot, Future World died with Horizons. Most of the North half of Epcot had little to nothing to do with the future. True EPCOT probably died with Walt.

edit to add: if there were a true EPCOT though (say on Mars or on a spacecraft) - I would actually think World Showcase would be a reasonable template. Maintaining the identities and architecture of our cultures for the future would allow our future to continue to have distinct flavors.

 

[rreading]

Yup. I've said it a hundred times on here. Rename the park.

At least AK and MK have pretty appropriate names.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

For those who are accepting the death of Future World and Epcot/Epcot Center (which I understand and sadly agree with), can anyone tell me the theme(s) of the new park?

 

[MisterPenguin]

For those who are accepting the death of Future World and Epcot/Epcot Center (which I understand and sadly agree with), can anyone tell me the theme(s) of the new park?

World Fair...

World Nature.​

​

World Discovery.​

​

World Celebration.​

​

World Showcase.​

​

World Disney World.

 

[WDWJoeG]

For those who are accepting the death of Future World and Epcot/Epcot Center (which I understand and sadly agree with), can anyone tell me the theme(s) of the new park?

Drinking and "fun rides"?

Kind of like your local county fair?

Maybe they can add a Tilt a Whirl and beer pong tables as that seems to be the standard now.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

For those who are accepting the death of Future World and Epcot/Epcot Center (which I understand and sadly agree with), can anyone tell me the theme(s) of the new park?

The real world meets the magic of Disney

 

[James Alucobond]

For those who are accepting the death of Future World and Epcot/Epcot Center (which I understand and sadly agree with), can anyone tell me the theme(s) of the new park?

Haven't they publicly said that the guiding theme is storytelling and how world cultures, the natural environment, and our thirst for discovery inspire the stories we tell? I thought that's why they were updating Spaceship Earth to have the story light, reworking many Showcase pavilions to include a Disney story inspired by that culture, etc.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Haven't they publicly said that the guiding theme is storytelling and how world cultures, the natural environment, and our thirst for discovery inspire the stories we tell? I thought that's why they were updating Spaceship Earth to have the story light, reworking many Showcase pavilions to include a Disney story inspired by that culture, etc.

"Storytelling" is such a broad theme that its essentially meaningless, of course - it could be applied with equal accuracy to MK or MGM.

To be fair, Universal does very little to differentiate between the themes of its various parks, and IOA and EU seem like they will be largely interchangeable. To be fairer, the real issue is that Disney used to have clearly defined themes in each park, and it's a big reason why WDW in the early to mid-90s remains the greatest theme park resort that has ever existed (I'd point to 1994 and 1995 as the all-too-brief apex, but your mileage may vary).

 

[James Alucobond]

"Storytelling" is such a broad theme that its essentially meaningless, of course - it could be applied with equal accuracy to MK or MGM.

To be fair, Universal does very little to differentiate between the themes of its various parks, and IOA and EU seem like they will be largely interchangeable. To be fairer, the real issue is that Disney used to have clearly defined themes in each park, and it's a big reason why WDW in the early to mid-90s remains the greatest theme park resort that has ever existed (I'd point to 1994 and 1995 as the all-too-brief apex, but your mileage may vary).

You're singling out the word "storytelling" when the central idea is more about staging stories adjacent to their real-world context, which is actually quite different from Magic Kingdom. Each land in MK is either a pure fiction or a cultural notion of a place that never really was. EPCOT attractions, by contrast, are staged next to facsimiles of real places, actual aquariums, working greenhouses, etc. Likewise, their cast are supplemented by cultural representatives, marine biologists, horticulturalists, etc. At this point, I'd say it actually has more in common with Animal Kingdom than Magic Kingdom or Hollywood Studios.

I certainly wouldn't rate the theme as being as inspired or unique relative to other theme parks as it used to be. Even so, I think it's still a sufficiently differentiated experience.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

You're singling out the word "storytelling" when the central idea is more about staging stories adjacent to their real-world context, which is actually quite different from Magic Kingdom. Each land in MK is either a pure fiction or a cultural notion of a place that never really was. EPCOT attractions, by contrast, are staged next to facsimiles of real places, actual aquariums, working greenhouses, etc. Likewise, their cast are supplemented by cultural representatives, marine biologists, horticulturalists, etc. At this point, I'd say it actually has more in common with Animal Kingdom than Magic Kingdom or Hollywood Studios.

I certainly wouldn't rate the theme as being as inspired or unique relative to other theme parks as it used to be. Even so, I think it's still a sufficiently differentiated experience.

I think that's the problem. Every one of these ideas would be ok, but it's far from consistently applied. Epcot is becoming the muddled mess that TL has become. After being arguably the most thematically consistent of all the parks (aside from DAK maybe). I get that many don't care, but any of the themes people have mentioned are half-arsed at best.

I do agree that the lands in many parks (Disney and Universal) are kinda mixed together. The big issue is Disney is now blurring the lines within lands to an extent not usually seen. (World Discovery being the biggest example.) And, I'm not sure to what end. I 100% believe that a Guardians Coaster with a strong attempt to tie it to the original Epcot ideas would be just as popular as the MK TL ride we are getting. It's ironic that "storytelling" is the theme highlighted, and that's where they seem to be failing the most recently. After all, the setting of your story is often just as important as the story itself.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

"Storytelling" is such a broad theme that its essentially meaningless, of course - it could be applied with equal accuracy to MK or MGM.

To be fair, Universal does very little to differentiate between the themes of its various parks, and IOA and EU seem like they will be largely interchangeable. To be fairer, the real issue is that Disney used to have clearly defined themes in each park, and it's a big reason why WDW in the early to mid-90s remains the greatest theme park resort that has ever existed (I'd point to 1994 and 1995 as the all-too-brief apex, but your mileage may vary).

Well, I do agree with you, but isn't Islands of Adventure based on literature?
(Comics, Harry Potter, Seuss, Jurassic Park?)

Universal Studios is Movies...but because so many literary works become movies, there is some confusion and cross-over. For instance, we see the movie versions of Harry Potter and Jurassic Park but is that much different than how the books describe them?

Epic Universe, on the other hand, just seems to be a hodgepodge of IP.

 

[No Name]

Well, I do agree with you, but isn't Islands of Adventure based on literature?
(Comics, Harry Potter, Seuss, Jurassic Park?)

Universal Studios is Movies...but because so many literary works become movies, there is some confusion and cross-over. For instance, we see the movie versions of Harry Potter and Jurassic Park but is that much different than how the books describe them?

Epic Universe, on the other hand, just seems to be a hodgepodge of IP.

Harry Potter is a stretch, so is Jurassic World. They are clearly based on movies that happen to be based on books. Not that “literature” is a very good premise for a park anyway, but it’s been abandoned at this point. The Kong ride is in no way based on literature.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Harry Potter is a stretch, so is Jurassic World. They are clearly based on movies that happen to be based on books. Not that “literature” is a very good premise for a park anyway, but it’s been abandoned at this point. The Kong ride is in no way based on literature.

If TheZach worked for Universal, I'm sure we would hear how Skull Island draws upon the deep literary history of Michael Chrichton, inspiring amazing properties like Jurassic Park. Drawing from books like Congo that celebrate the majesty of gorillas, they expanded the concept of Jurassic Park while expanding it to be more literary, more relevant, more Universal. And, Kong and Amy totally drank from the same watering hole in 1987 (or something like that).

 

[TikibirdLand]

Harry Potter is a stretch, so is Jurassic World. They are clearly based on movies that happen to be based on books. Not that “literature” is a very good premise for a park anyway, but it’s been abandoned at this point. The Kong ride is in no way based on literature.

His first appearance was in the novelization of the 1933 film King Kong from RKO Pictures, with the film premiering a little over two months later. Upon its initial release and subsequent re-releases, the film received universal acclaim.

So, technically, it was in literature first.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Harry Potter is a stretch, so is Jurassic World. They are clearly based on movies that happen to be based on books. Not that “literature” is a very good premise for a park anyway, but it’s been abandoned at this point. The Kong ride is in no way based on literature.

Harry Potter being a book is a stretch? Jurassic PARK is the land. Yes, some cues from the later films have been added but it's still PARK and not World (yet). These work in both cases...in a movie park and a book park. No different than Star Wars working in a movie park and a land based on fantasy/sci-fi. Or a Haunted Mansion that fits into multiple lands across the globe with basically just a facade change to fit the aesthetic of the land.

That being said, I will agree that Kong doesn't even fit in the land it's in...that is just bad placement and should've gone to the studios. (I think we can agree that every theme park has attractions that don't fit into the theme of the park/land.)

Monsters Inc Laugh Floor in Tomorrowland?
Splash Mountain in Frontierland?
Finding Nemo the Musical in DinoLand USA?
Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot.
Frozen Ever After in Epcot.
Rip Ride Rockit. No real theme...just a rollercoaster thrown in to a themed park.

I didn't say it was a great theme...but it's an overall theme for the park nonetheless. Is it any different than "MOVIES?" One is written that can basically get any theme shoehorned into it and the other is film which can have any theme shoehorned into it.

 

[No Name]

Harry Potter being a book is a stretch? Jurassic PARK is the land. Yes, some cues from the later films have been added but it's still PARK and not World (yet). These work in both cases...in a movie park and a book park. No different than Star Wars working in a movie park and a land based on fantasy/sci-fi. Or a Haunted Mansion that fits into multiple lands across the globe with basically just a facade change to fit the aesthetic of the land.

That being said, I will agree that Kong doesn't even fit in the land it's in...that is just bad placement and should've gone to the studios. (I think we can agree that every theme park has attractions that don't fit into the theme of the park/land.)

Monsters Inc Laugh Floor in Tomorrowland?
Splash Mountain in Frontierland?
Finding Nemo the Musical in DinoLand USA?
Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot.
Frozen Ever After in Epcot.
Rip Ride Rockit. No real theme...just a rollercoaster thrown in to a themed park.

I didn't say it was a great theme...but it's an overall theme for the park nonetheless. Is it any different than "MOVIES?" One is written that can basically get any theme shoehorned into it and the other is film which can have any theme shoehorned into it.

The Velocicoaster is wholly based on the films and uses characters, settings, designs schemes, etc. that were never part of the book. If you have to justify something’s existence by saying its source material’s source material’s source material was a book then that’s a stretch.

It’s really a horrible theme for the park, if I can even call it one. First of all, it’s just a trivial thing the rides’ source material have in common (same problem with the direction of the studios parks, to your point). Second, people don’t get jazzed up about literature often or maybe even anymore, and Universal has no skin in it. A vague sense of adventure is what they are going with now and any recent projects that fit the old theme are just a matter of coincidence or convenience.

 

[networkpro]

Epcot has never been more than a superficial treatment of any subject that some mistakenly embrace as an authoritative in-depth treatise.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

The Velocicoaster is wholly based on the films and uses characters, settings, designs schemes, etc. that were never part of the book. If you have to justify something’s existence by saying its source material’s source material’s source material was a book then that’s a stretch.

It’s really a horrible theme for the park, if I can even call it one. First of all, it’s just a trivial thing the rides’ source material have in common (same problem with the direction of the studios parks, to your point). Second, people don’t get jazzed up about literature often or maybe even anymore, and Universal has no skin in it. A vague sense of adventure is what they are going with now and any recent projects that fit the old theme are just a matter of coincidence or convenience.

I've never walked through Islands of Adventure and thought... "What is the theme of this area?" So, in that case...it's a win.
Aside from Kong, which doesn't feel like it's part of Jurassic Park or Toon Lagoon (and has "Island" in it's attraction name to somewhat make it part of its own land), the lands flow well due to there being enough room separating the lands and each one having some sort of "entry." The cohesive design of the lands are throughout. Now they just need to add something or fix the existing Lost Continent area.

Epcot and Universal Studios are the worst offenders at the moment between the two big Orlando area resorts.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Epcot has never been more than a superficial treatment of any subject that some mistakenly embrace as an authoritative in-depth treatise.

If that's your metric, than what at Walt Disney World isn't? Literally everything would fit into that category.

 

[networkpro]

If that's your metric, than what at Walt Disney World isn't? Literally everything would fit into that category.

I didnt expand, like you, my criticism to encompass the entirety of Walt Disney World, but just Epcot (which by the way would never exist as a city because of zoning laws). Collapsing entire countries into region-specific charactures, presenting single-sided arguments as the only logical path to the future, and entire industries represented only by one company's approach to provide products to meet consumer demand is disingenious.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, why not rename Fantasyland as "Repurposed Grimm's anthology of collected European fairytales-land".