JH MuppetVision 3D reopening report

[wdwmagic]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor, we could listen to the people that know


- The digital copy is not 'new', it has been in use in DCA for some time.

- The sweetums 'goof up' towards the end is more evident in the newer copy of the film because of the increase in clarity. Thats why more have noticed it.

The problem is that everyone has thus far assumed that the projection is Disney Digital 3d (realD) which it is not...... Don't you think the company would take the time to advertise that fact if ANY of the shows used DD3d? They don't, because it's a different technology..

In other words, this form of digital 3d projection requires 2 (if not more depending on screen size/usage - see philharmagic) projectors..

Enough said.

You've proven over the last 2 days that you have no idea what you are really talking about. The 'new' version of Wishes, and the hand drawn Waldo. Before you start spouting off you need to earn some credability, and at the moment, you have none.

Back to muppet talk

 

[gustaftp]

Digital does not "Have" to display digital artifacts. Just go see Avatar at a commercial digital cinema. Hall of Presidents digital is pristine. This is a short film, and is repeated over and over - They could easily use uncompressed video on a relatively small less than one terrabyte drive. You can bet that they would not do a significant refurb at this point to any show like this and NOT do the digital changeover. Almost all of our local theaters are digital now - I cannot imagine that WDW would not do the same.

Those two films were designed with new HD technology in mind. They look stunning in Blu-Ray on a large HDTV.

However, if I watch an older movie that was converted to Blu-Ray before the advent of HD, I can see the "graininess" associated with film. Some movies it's less evident than others, but if it was filmed before the advent of the latest filming technology, the film will only ever be as good as its source.

How do I know? I used to run my own business converting people's home movies to DVD. Occasionally I'd get someone complain that their home movies were as crisp and clear as a DVD should be. I then had to explain that aside from minor adjustments, if the source was VHS, it would look like a VHS tape regardless of me converting it to DVD.

 

[adaml212]

There is a misconception here that if they switched to digital than there should be only one projector used. Digital 3D can use two projectors, and they probably are using two if they did switch to digital. Yes, most cinemas use only one projector for 3D, but in certain situations it is beneficial to use two. Now I can't confirm their setup but I do have knowledge in this area (a projectionist).

Benifits in using two projectors are:

1) To increase light output (the 3D process greatly reduces brightness).
2) No 3D flicker which can cause fatigue or headaches. Single projector setups (except Sony 3D) can only show one eye at a time (called triple flash). Using two projectors both eyes are shown at all times.
3) Increased picture quality / resolution.

Since 70mm was used for the film presentation (I believe), going to a single 2k projector (or 4k Sony which would still be 2k in 3D) would be a definite downgrade. Digital IMAX is an example that uses two 2k digital projectors.

 

[fosse76]

And just how do you know what everyone else has been assuming?

Statements like that (to say nothing of the introduction to your post) actually tend to get you ignored, not heard. Regardless if you believe yourself to be someone in the know......

Well, not knowing the veracity of his statements, I can say that I never noticed Sweetums on the screen and in the theater at the same time until I watched it at Disneyland a few weeks ago. Assuming the film is now digital, it is most probable that this is merely a copy of what is already at Disneyland. It could also be a new print of the film. I liked what I saw in Anaheim...Disney World's looked ghetto in comparison. So either way this has got to be an improvement.

 

[wm49rs]

Well, not knowing the veracity of his statements, I can say that I never noticed Sweetums on the screen and in the theater at the same time until I watched it at Disneyland a few weeks ago. Assuming the film is now digital, it is most probable that this is merely a copy of what is already at Disneyland. It could also be a new print of the film. I liked what I saw in Anaheim...Disney World's looked ghetto in comparison. So either way this has got to be an improvement.

I'm hoping for an improvement as well, regardless of the technology....

 

[projectorguy1]

Those two films were designed with new HD technology in mind. They look stunning in Blu-Ray on a large HDTV.

However, if I watch an older movie that was converted to Blu-Ray before the advent of HD, I can see the "graininess" associated with film. Some movies it's less evident than others, but if it was filmed before the advent of the latest filming technology, the film will only ever be as good as its source.

How do I know? I used to run my own business converting people's home movies to DVD. Occasionally I'd get someone complain that their home movies were as crisp and clear as a DVD should be. I then had to explain that aside from minor adjustments, if the source was VHS, it would look like a VHS tape regardless of me converting it to DVD.

Film grain can be removed in a digital transfer as well. I am not a fan of this, as some other details can be lost at the same time. As I said, the Hall of Presidents video is pristine, and it is a transfer from film. The digital presentation quality is dependent on the quality of the original film master. Watch the Bluray of North by Northwest if you want to see how good an older film can be in digital. I bet the original film did not look as good at release. They took several masters and "digitally combined" the best bits from each frame by frame, to arrive at a stunning digital "master".

 

[WDWExplorer]

You've proven over the last 2 days that you have no idea what you are really talking about. The 'new' version of Wishes, and the hand drawn Waldo. Before you start spouting off you need to earn some credability, and at the moment, you have none.

Back to muppet talk

Waldo was hand drawn..... He was RAY TRACED (yes, I know hat doesn't mean he was traced by some animators hand.... I'm not an idiot..)..... which is VERY different from a conventional 3d wire-frame model..

i stand by the version of wishes being slightly different.. I've seen it hundreds of times from multiple angles.. and i can watch it again tonight if you'd like... there was more pyro and different pyro than before, even taking previous perimeter shows into account... I guess I should have video taped it, eh? thought this was a fan board, not cnn... perhaps the pow wow paid for a little 'extra'?

as far as credibility.. I really don't care if you, or anyone else believes me.. just stating the facts as they are.. take them or leave them..

 

[WDWExplorer]

Film grain can be removed in a digital transfer as well. I am not a fan of this, as some other details can be lost at the same time. As I said, the Hall of Presidents video is pristine, and it is a transfer from film. The digital presentation quality is dependent on the quality of the original film master. Watch the Bluray of North by Northwest if you want to see how good an older film can be in digital. I bet the original film did not look as good at release. They took several masters and "digitally combined" the best bits from each frame by frame, to arrive at a stunning digital "master".

whatever you do.. don't post logical statements! you have to have street cred here first apparently!

I really believe that more people would LIke to believe that disney NEGLECTED the refurb, than replaced the equipment.... either that, or they'd rather believe that they stripped the soul from adventurers club (yuck) and polished the camera lenses with it, before using parts from the jules verne AA in Horizons to rebuild the Swedish Chef AA...

/sarcasm

My point is, people here would rather believe the negatives, than anything thing positive...

 

[hack2112]

Waldo was hand drawn..... He was RAY TRACED..... which is VERY different from a conventional 3d wire-frame model..

i stand by the version of wishes being slightly different.. I've seen it hundreds of times from multiple angles.. and i can watch it again tonight if you'd like... there was more pyro and different pyro than before, even taking previous perimeter shows into account... I guess I should have video taped it, eh? thought this was a fan board, not cnn... perhaps the pow wow paid for a little 'extra'?

as far as credibility.. I really don't care if you, or anyone else believes me.. just stating the facts as they are.. take them or leave them..

POW WOW didn't pay for a single thing Sunday night. Disney footed the bill. And placed two girls dancing in clear box-thingies with vodka.

 

[tim911]

whatever you do.. don't post logical statements! you have to have street cred here first apparently!

I really believe that more people would LIke to believe that disney NEGLECTED the refurb, than replaced the equipment.... either that, or they'd rather believe that they stripped the soul from adventurers club (yuck) and polished the camera lenses with it, before using parts from the jules verne AA in Horizons to rebuild the Swedish Chef AA...

/sarcasm

My point is, people here would rather believe the negatives, than anything thing positive...

I posted my opinion on what I thought was done. I asked a question for someone to confirm or deny what was my opinion. I still have yet to hear a definitive answer. So, I will continue to bump thread.

 

[wdwmagic]

Ignore the idiot folks, back to Muppets.

 

[Testtrack321]

POW WOW didn't pay for a single thing Sunday night. Disney footed the bill. And placed two girls dancing in clear box-thingies with vodka.

Why doesn't Disney do this ALL the time? It'd make Stitch so much more enjoyable!

PS +1 on the avatar

 

[RSoxNo1]

Without getting two technical, can someone explain how Real 3D works without multiple projectors?

My understanding of 3D was that it required two projectors, and up until recently this caused a level of distortion depending on the angles of the projectors and the angle that you're viewing the screen.

This doesn't seem to be the case with Real 3D, so what's the difference? How similar is the concept behind Real 3D and the 3D Televisions?

 

[rodserling27]

This whole talk of Real3D, Disney 3d, and all that....confuses the heck outta me! I'm glad the show is back, though...and in the meantime apparently I have A LOT of learning to do about cinematography and 3D films!!:lol:

 

[projectorguy1]

Without getting two technical, can someone explain how Real 3D works without multiple projectors?

My understanding of 3D was that it required two projectors, and up until recently this caused a level of distortion depending on the angles of the projectors and the angle that you're viewing the screen.

This doesn't seem to be the case with Real 3D, so what's the difference? How similar is the concept behind Real 3D and the 3D Televisions?

Current 3D theatrical systems use polarized glasses, each lens oriented 90 degrees from the other. The two images can be sent to the screen with one projector running at 144 Hz, refreshing each eye at 72 Hz (theater systems are 144Hz - current home systems use 2 x 60 Hz, which may introduce some flicker for some people).

Since the glasses cut a significant amount of light, two projectors, aligned together can be used, each projector providing one polarized image on top of the other. This was used more in earlier theratrical systems, before the electronics were available to process the image above 60Hz, and the digital pojectors were not as bright as today.

 

[hack2112]

Why doesn't Disney do this ALL the time? It'd make Stitch so much more enjoyable!

PS +1 on the avatar

As soon as I find the picture I'll post it. It's hilarious.

PS +1 on your avatar too

 

[Raven66]

I would watch it being mimed by stick people if it meant I could be at Walt Disney World at this moment.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

For what its worth I have it from a reliable source (no I wont name) that the new projectors are indeed digital and they also remastered the film and audio before the transfer.

 

[Captain Hank]

I saw the refurbed MuppetVision today. The main show was absolutely fantastic, extremely bright and crisp compared to what it was previously. The Vacuumuppet effect worked better than I remember, and there were many more bubbles than I recall. Didn't get wet during Fozzie's squirting flower gag, though from the sound of it, many others did. The long-missing "let's burn rubber" smoke effect was almost there--there was a blast of air, but no smoke. No in-theater fireworks, unfortunately. Like many others, I noticed Sweetums being in two places in once. He is plainly visible on screen while at the same time he is delivering lines in the theater. There really should be some adjustment made to either the film or Sweetums' timing in the theater--it looks really bad.

 

[EpcotServo]

I saw the refurbed MuppetVision today. The main show was absolutely fantastic, extremely bright and crisp compared to what it was previously. The Vacuumuppet effect worked better than I remember, and there were many more bubbles than I recall. Didn't get wet during Fozzie's squirting flower gag, though from the sound of it, many others did. The long-missing "let's burn rubber" smoke effect was almost there--there was a blast of air, but no smoke. No in-theater fireworks, unfortunately. Like many others, I noticed Sweetums being in two places in once. He is plainly visible on screen while at the same time he is delivering lines in the theater. There really should be some adjustment made to either the film or Sweetums' timing in the theater--it looks really bad.

Seriously, if everyone is just now noticing Double Sweetums, including me, when will people start taking about the only human in MuppetVision?
:lol: :zipit: