It's the Tourists...

[CarlHS]

Kevin Yee has a fantastic article at(http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky082307a.htm). It should be read by every manager and imagineer at WDW.

One of my pet peeves (deletion of attractions without replacement) is covered so well by this section:

[Quoting Kevin Yee]:

Moving beyond FastPass, let's talk about another element in the crowds and wait-time puzzle: capacity. We already said that FP doesn't add ride capacity, and may in fact move people out of the queues and into the walkways, making them crowded. But look again at ride capacity apart from FastPass. If parks close rides and don't put in new ones (keelboats, canoes, 20,000 Leagues, skyway), then there are fewer things to do in the park. Your village idiot at this point can compute that will mean longer lines in the rides left open.

What the parks need are rides known as 'people eaters', ones that swallow 2,000 people per hour without breaking a sweat. It's probably for this reason that the Carousel of Progress remains open in Tomorrowland. Everyone knows it's outdated, but by golly it has great capacity, so it should be kept open. And rightly so, I might add.

There's a corollary to this that park managers should heed: a park with a lot of rides and low wait times may look 'expensive' in terms of your labor costs, but if it keeps visitors returning every twelve months (rather than every 24), it was a worthwhile cost.

Pretty much every park at WDW needs more rides. At a minimum, of course, they must honor the commitment to build a new ride for every old one they close, but even more than that, they must open still new ones. I won't even embarrass the East Coast here by comparing the ride lineup at Disneyland vs. any one park at WDW. And even Disneyland, with its many more rides in a single park, has need of more 'people-eater' rides. Capacity matters, quite a lot.
[End Quote]


I will embarrass them:
The most attend (and likely most profitable) park on the planet has had the least amount of reinvestment in attractions of any Disney Park. It is better than 20 rides behind DL and a good 8 to 10 of those are E-Tickets.

DCA, with all it's weakness, exceeds DHS right now, and the 1.2 billion infusion will caus that park to excee all the WDW parks in content as well.

Disney needs to realize the reason they have in the vacinity of 80% passholders in CA vs. vacinity of only 20% in FL is this content disparity.

...and don't think the WDW TLC which has begun, will change things much, I just read that HM in DL will be getting another "plus" refit shortly after WDW's HM. Just look how all the TLC that DL got for the 50th paid off in profits (and further reinvestment in attractions, they are developing a new E-Ticket for TL right now, and MK still sits there idle).

I know a lot of AP holders who buy an AP once every other year or once every third year because “the parks change so slowly, why waste the money.” WDW needs to get on the ball and replace those deleted rides and add at least 1 E-Ticket to every park and in MHO two in MK. Then capacity will go up, wait times down, AP buyers will increase and profits will grow, not to mention filled hotel rooms. I hope Disney can learn from it’s own success!

You're thoughts?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Well Disney doesn't want that many passholders. Tourists spend more money than passholders. The reason DL must constantly update is because of those passholders--they get bored much faster than tourists. I'm not defending WDW's operations in recent years, but the goal for both WDW and the DLR is not to increase the number of APs, but rather to encourage more tourists to visit--that's why they spend the big bucks on these campaigns that they can market all over the place.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

If the powers that be don't want to directly spend money to invest in additional attractions, lower the park capacity number so that the parks are not so miserably overcrowded. Turning people away at the gates seems terrible on one hand but ensuring a quality experience for the masses who are there could be an investment also.

I try not to go during the hot, traditionally busy times of year. It's just not worth it to pay twice as much to do half as much. You know?

 

[ToTBellHop]

guests would be very displeased being turned away, no? You won't get many return visitors if it becomes common practice to close the gates. I don't personally think the lines are all that ridiculous. The only rides that I routinely see with absurd wait times are Test Track and Soarin, and they are like that pretty much year-round.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Kevin Yee couldn't be anymore innacurate with his overly-critical potshot-infested articles.

Don't read his articles, please. Just like Al Lutz, Yee is just another pessimistic and cynical curmudgeon who hates Disney to no end and will always go out of his to bash them and make them look bad, no matter what they do.

Don't let Lutz or Yee brainwash you!

 

[djkidkaz]

Kevin Yee, Al Lutz and Miceage suck! They rag on everything WDW. I think its funny that Al Lutz made mention that DL is now getting all the upgrades that the WDW Haunted Mansion is getting. Oh really Al? Is that because you can't bare to know that WDW has something better than your beloved DL? I stopped reading Miceage months ago after I couldn't find any positive reports on WDW. That site is a joke.

 

[jt04]

Funding WDWQuestions

IMHO an investment similar to that being done at DCA (over 1 Billion) spread out over all 4 parks at WDW would fill all the rooms and make a sizable profit. It seems like a chicken and egg argument. If the crowds show up at WDW they will have the money to build more attractions OR if they build more attractions the crowds will show up, increasing profit. I believe the second is true. Does Disney do all of it's own financing, or do they sometimes use outside financing???? Just wondering how that works, because I can't imagine they would have any problems finding investors or a financial institution that would be willing to invest in updating WDW including even a monorails expansion:shrug: Anyone know more?

 

[MIDisneyFamily]

Rides are often closed due to the high cost of refurbishment in relation to thier draw in attendance numbers to the parks. This cost often includes safety improvements as a major factor. Replacement of a ride isnt always a direct replacement on the same location as a removed attraction. It could be the addition of an attraction at a different spot, or even a different park.
Or Disney just takes away all the rides Mr. Yee like just to make him mad.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

I did notice that article was a bit biased towards DL vs. WDW. I don't frequent too many Disney sites, tho. :shrug:

 

[CarlHS]

Well Disney doesn't want that many passholders. Tourists spend more money than passholders. The reason DL must constantly update is because of those passholders--they get bored much faster than tourists. I'm not defending WDW's operations in recent years, but the goal for both WDW and the DLR is not to increase the number of APs, but rather to encourage more tourists to visit--that's why they spend the big bucks on these campaigns that they can market all over the place.

I respectfully disagree. Most AP holders spend much more than most 1-time or Annual visitors do. Not in one big clump, but when you add it all up over the year, they do. Especiallay the ones far enough away to need a hotel for weekend jaunts...

Also, It's the APs that keep DL alive, it couldn't survive without them, and look how much growth and profit servicing them has brought to DL's bottom line...

 

[CarlHS]

I did notice that article was a bit biased towards DL vs. WDW. I don't frequent too many Disney sites, tho. :shrug:

As someone who frequents both CA and FL, CA is far ahead on the quality and content levels. These atricles may sound biased, but if you go to CA you have to admit much of the quality is better in a much smaller space. And you can't deny the financial sucess DL is seeing as a result. Why not apply that logic to WDW so it truly becomes the best Disney facility? It really should be the best one afterall, shouldn't it?

 

[Main Street USA]

Disney needs to realize the reason they have in the vacinity of 80% passholders in CA vs. vacinity of only 20% in FL is this content disparity.

For the most part, the argument for more attractions is true, but this line you wrote has NOTHING to do with lack of rides in WDW. It has EVERYTHING to do with location, what type of person visits Disneyland these days (locals, teenagers hanging out) as compared to WDW (primarily families that have traveled there for vacation). People that visit WDW once a year, which you or Kevin said is what they should be shooting for, have no need for an annual pass every year. Simple as that...completely different subject than attraction totals and capacity.

 

[jt04]

For the most part, the argument for more attractions is true, but this line you wrote has NOTHING to do with lack of rides in WDW. It has EVERYTHING to do with location, what type of person visits Disneyland these days (locals, teenagers hanging out) as compared to WDW (primarily families that have traveled there for vacation). People that visit WDW once a year, which you or Kevin said is what they should be shooting for, have no need for an annual pass every year. Simple as that...completely different subject than attraction totals and capacity.

Great information, More please. It seems to me the 1990's build out proved that the more they add, the bigger the crowds. Why not continually adding and upgrading rides at WDW???? I have never understood this. Thanks

 

[Thiger]

I concur with the thought that DL and WDW attract 2 different types of demographics. I've considered visiting DL but only for a day trip whereas all of my WDW trips are at least 5 days long.
Obviously with a park thats really only a 1 day adventure, you need to rely on AP's to keep the property filled. WDW could probably been seen in 4 days, but even w/ a week parkhopping I still feel like I dont get to see it all.
I believe his article boils down to an east-coast/west-coast grudge and to be honest, i think the world is doing a lot of great things to increase crowds year -round, pirate/princess party, star wars weekends, food n wine fest.

 

[Main Street USA]

Great information, More please. It seems to me the 1990's build out proved that the more they add, the bigger the crowds. Why not continually adding and upgrading rides at WDW???? I have never understood this. Thanks

I totally agree with the "adding attractions will bring more crowds" viewpoint. It's accurate, no doubt. I was only speaking out against the more attractions will bring more AP holders, and DL vs. WDW argument.

Overall, I'd say most of us could agree that WDW has had a lot of problems and bad decision making over the past 5 - 10 years or so. That being said, I think they're spending a LOT of money right now making things right. I, for one, am REALLY excited about the current and near future additions and upgrades.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I respectfully disagree. Most AP holders spend much more than most 1-time or Annual visitors to. Not in one big clump, but when you add it all up over the year, they do. Especiallay the ones far enough away to need a hotel for weekend jaunts...

Also, It's the APs that keep DL alive, it couldn't survive without them, and look how much growth and profit servicing them has brought to DL's bottom line...

over the year, yes. But that's not what matters. What matters is what the average guest spends on the average day, and when you consider that, tourists spend FAR more. Think of it this way: if you have 15,000,000 visitors to a park in a given year, and all of them are tourists, you will be making far more money than if all of them hold APs. That is why Disney tries to increasingly appeal to tourists.

 

[Thiger]

especially to DHS / DMGMS
I hope they just build like 3-5 rides immediately (toy story mania, rat coaster + a few more [hopefully another star wars ride in addition to ST 2.0]).
To me, that park is a half day (including my traditional 4 rides of RRC & TZHTT)

 

[lilclerk]

I concur with the thought that DL and WDW attract 2 different types of demographics. I've considered visiting DL but only for a day trip whereas all of my WDW trips are at least 5 days long.

I definitely agree. I've been to WDW twice (I'm a rookie compared to most of you :animwink:,) both trips were at least 6 days, and I still don't feel finished.
I went to DL in June and had 3 days in both parks and felt like I did everything I wanted. Except see the night shows because they weren't showing them during the week.
So yes, while the quality of the attractions in DL (especially Pirates, Space, and HM) were mostly better, the WDW experience is better. IMHO of course.

 

[MIDisneyFamily]

Whether someone spends one week per year as a tourist, or spends 20 or more days a year there with an annual pass is a huge relevant statistic. It does matter what a single guest spends over a year in a way. An annual pass holder will spend more just because of the fact they are there many more days. Disney concentrates on two statistics...one for hotel guests, and one for "day " visitors. Both categories have increased. The average spending per night of on site guests, as well as the average per day spending, on average, of thier visitors overall. Both have increased 3 to 5 percent over the last year. The goal is to increase the amount both AP holders and single yearly visitor guests spend each day. I dont see any statistic that would support that AP holders on average dont spend more per year than a single trip guest.

 

[DisneyJoe]

An annual pass holder will spend more just because of the fact they are there many more days.

Not necessarily. Many of the WDW AP holders that I know don't even eat in the parks, they go and visit for a few hours and leave; and they rarely purchase souvenirs, unless it is a special event, such as Star Wars weekends, etc.

Of course, my sample population may not be representative of the whole.....