It seems like more competition in the Orlando theme-park space is bad for the consumer.

[Tom Morrow]

Nope, let's not do that.

Pandora and Toy are not huge. Really? You call those huge?

On a side note Toys shows cheapness everywhere so I wouldn't be too proud to put that on the list of accomplishments

Pandora is bigger than every "land" at Universal, and Universal shows cheapness nearly everywhere outside of Potter.

Typical Universal fanboy mental gymnastics. I'm by no means saying Toy Story Land is a great, buuut everywhere you look, there IS detail of everything being made of toys. Meanwhile Universal will slap a fiberglass Chief Wiggum down and some cheap facades over an existing building and it's "genius and immersive". Disney will create a feat of engineering by suspending giant mountains in the air - "this land is so empty and lifeless!" Universal slaps a giant Hulk or Optimus Prime statue at the entrance = "amazing detail!"

"Actually Universal is doing better than Disney!!! Just ignore every effort they've done for the last decade outside of Potter!" And nevermind that even in four or five years when the new park is complete, they will still be one park and one water park behind Disney.

Recognize Universal's strengths but don't act like they're "owning" Disney at Disney's game, because it just looks makes you look like an obnoxious contrarian. In 2010 and 2014 they got woke Disney up and shook the industry, but they have not kept up that momentum.

 

[Tom Morrow]

With Epic Universe coming - WDW better kick it into high gear.
I honestly don't care how many hoity toity shops they put in Downtown Disney.
The biggest land expansion in WDW and DL history and it only has two rides ???
But I can drop 200 on a saber and 20-30 on a bubbly drink - - 50-100 for a droid?

I know they want our money - - but our family needs more to do to get us there.

Diagon Alley is Universal's "biggest" land and it only has one ride and is also mostly a shopping experience. Disney doesn't need to kick it in to high gear when they will still be ahead of Universal even when Epic Universe is finished.

 

[Janir]

So, Disney is just moderately price gouging due to competition instead of completely price gouging?

We wanted to spend a day or two at Universal on our most recent trip. Our pricing options for a family of 4 were either $700 for a single day pass or $1,100 for a 5 day pass (they were running a 3 for 2 special). Needless to say, we skipped Universal and went to SW for $400. Arrogant pricing model on their part.

Disney frontloads their tickets as well. Spend 1 or two days at Disney and you spent a ton of money. Add in few more days and the per day gets cheaper. Both resorts want you to spend the bulk of your time with them vs "The other guy's place" so they incentivise you to just extend your time with us as "It's cheaper!"

 

[NickMaio]

Diagon Alley is Universal's "biggest" land and it only has one ride and is also mostly a shopping experience. Disney doesn't need to kick it in to high gear when they will still be ahead of Universal even when Epic Universe is finished.

Diagon has the Express train to ride with two different stories. Diagon Alley is not big enough for two different rides, the space can not support it. The shops and restaurants are huge fixtures in the Potter verse. Savi and some crummy cantina are not anywhere in SW lore. Just made up for the purpose of sucking money out of pockets.
The stores in the wizarding world have deeper connections to all Potter fans making it a truly unique environment. 14 acres and 1 working ride.......Way to go WDW. That expansion should have been delayed. It was a waste of our time. Even with 2 rides it is underused.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Diagon has the Express train to ride with two different stories. Diagon Alley is not big enough for two different rides, the space can not support it. The shops and restaurants are huge fixtures in the Potter verse. Savi and some crummy cantina are not anywhere in SW lore. Just made up for the purpose of sucking money out of pockets.
The stores in the wizarding world have deeper connections to all Potter fans making it a truly unique environment. 14 acres and 1 working ride.......Way to go WDW. That expansion should have been delayed. It was a waste of our time. Even with 2 rides it is underused.

Your brand allegiance is showing. All you did was some mental gymnastics to justify how one big land with one ride and lots of shops is better than another big land with one ride (but soon 2) with lots of shops.

 

[NickMaio]

Ha - - -brand allegiance.
Love it - - thanks.
I prefer to think of it as a point of view and an opinion. Sorry you don't agree with it.
I have been to WDW over 50 trips in my life time - - We live 2,200kms away, do some math. Brand allegiance to Uni indeed.

 

[HongKongFu]

Pandora is bigger than every "land" at Universal, and Universal shows cheapness nearly everywhere outside of Potter.

What in the world does that have to do with you calling Toy and Pandora huge??

Nothing, nothing whatsoever.

And cheapness is at both properties. I think most all of us know that.
You were the one touting Toy as if it is some meaningful accomplishment. It was a low budget land and is nothing remotely close to Pandora or Galaxy Edge.Toy looks embarrassing to me but again, so what.

 

[Benjamin_Nicholas]

I honestly don't care how many hoity toity shops they put in Downtown Disney.

Even with Disney doubling+ the size of DD, those stores are still mostly garbage.

But I agree totally that Uni is going to steal MAJOR thunder with Epic... As long as it's truly epic

 

[NickMaio]

WDW attendance has been down lately.....that us not a good start to what should have been a huge Aug and Sept.

 

[Tom Morrow]

What in the world does that have to do with you calling Toy and Pandora huge??

Nothing, nothing whatsoever.

And cheapness is at both properties. I think most all of us know that.
You were the one touting Toy as if it is some meaningful accomplishment. It was a low budget land and is nothing remotely close to Pandora or Galaxy Edge.Toy looks embarrassing to me but again, so what.

Two out the three lands qualify as huge. Continue cherry picking the message.

 

[NickMaio]

Two out the three lands qualify as huge. Continue cherry picking the message.

After doing some reading Pandora is approx 12 acres and Hogsmead is 20 acres, which is only 1 side of the wizarding world.
Interesting.......
Not sure what size Toy Story is. We did not bother to go in.

 

[HongKongFu]

Not sure what size Toy Story is. We did not bother to go in.

Wise choice......... unless you like useless rides like Alien Saucers and nothing special, poorly themed coasters like a Slinky Dog or a fully exposed to elements Andy's hot Lunchbox.
D-ish type attraction Midway Mania is worth a once around, though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pandora is bigger than every "land" at Universal, and Universal shows cheapness nearly everywhere outside of Potter.

Typical Universal fanboy mental gymnastics. I'm by no means saying Toy Story Land is a great, buuut everywhere you look, there IS detail of everything being made of toys. Meanwhile Universal will slap a fiberglass Chief Wiggum down and some cheap facades over an existing building and it's "genius and immersive". Disney will create a feat of engineering by suspending giant mountains in the air - "this land is so empty and lifeless!" Universal slaps a giant Hulk or Optimus Prime statue at the entrance = "amazing detail!"

"Actually Universal is doing better than Disney!!! Just ignore every effort they've done for the last decade outside of Potter!" And nevermind that even in four or five years when the new park is complete, they will still be one park and one water park behind Disney.

Recognize Universal's strengths but don't act like they're "owning" Disney at Disney's game, because it just looks makes you look like an obnoxious contrarian. In 2010 and 2014 they got woke Disney up and shook the industry, but they have not kept up that momentum.

Diagon Alley is Universal's "biggest" land and it only has one ride and is also mostly a shopping experience. Disney doesn't need to kick it in to high gear when they will still be ahead of Universal even when Epic Universe is finished.

Your brand allegiance is showing. All you did was some mental gymnastics to justify how one big land with one ride and lots of shops is better than another big land with one ride (but soon 2) with lots of shops.

Two out the three lands qualify as huge. Continue cherry picking the message.

I’m really trying to consider the middle perspective in this snit...because I think the uni vs wdw debate is always biased...

But you’re not doing well here, Tom...

The physical size of “lands” mean nothing if there isn’t enough to DO...and that’s the Disney issue.

The Star Wars land (won’t dignify that stupid name) is well built...but ALOT of it is backdrops/facades and lots of walkway space between boutique shops and food kiosks.

There just is not enough there to be a longterm popular land.

Uni isn’t perfect...but their last 10 years have been much more progress from their starting point than Disney...which has probably stayed stationary as they tinker with their themes and prices

 

[Tom Morrow]

I’m really trying to consider the middle perspective in this snit...because I think the uni vs wdw debate is always biased...

But you’re not doing well here, Tom...

The physical size of “lands” mean nothing if there isn’t enough to DO...and that’s the Disney issue.

The Star Wars land (won’t dignify that stupid name) is well built...but ALOT of it is backdrops/facades and lots of walkway space between boutique shops and food kiosks.

There just is not enough there to be a longterm popular land.

Uni isn’t perfect...but their last 10 years have been much more progress from their starting point than Disney...which has probably stayed stationary as they tinker with their themes and prices

Well, first off, the size of the lands debate was not my point at all and this started because I said "three huge lands" when I should have said "two huge lands and one average sized land". But, since we're now talking about it...

This is a comparison of the walking areas of the lands. Not sure where the acreage numbers posted above came from, but Pandora is bigger than Diagon, and Galaxy's Edge is double the size of Pandora. That qualifies as "huge" in my book.

On to your second point. There is currently exactly the same amount of stuff to do in Galaxy's Edge as there is in Diagon Alley. And soon there will be more to do than Diagon Alley. You can hate it all you want because "it's not stuff I recognize from movies!!!" but this fact does not change. In December, Galaxy's Edge will have more to do than Diagon Alley.

My main point was that this notion that Disney has stayed stationary through the 2010's is flat out wrong and dumb.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, first off, the size of the lands debate was not my point at all and this started because I said "three huge lands" when I should have said "two huge lands and one average sized land". But, since we're now talking about it...

View attachment 411094

This is a comparison of the walking areas of the lands. Not sure where the acreage numbers posted above came from, but Pandora is bigger than Diagon, and Galaxy's Edge is double the size of Pandora. That qualifies as "huge" in my book.

On to your second point. There is currently exactly the same amount of stuff to do in Galaxy's Edge as there is in Diagon Alley. And soon there will be more to do than Diagon Alley. You can hate it all you want because "it's not stuff I recognize from movies!!!" but this fact does not change. In December, Galaxy's Edge will have more to do than Diagon Alley.

My main point was that this notion that Disney has stayed stationary through the 2010's is flat out wrong and dumb.

Disney stayed stationary through the the 2000’s and the aggregate attendance is up 20-25%...
It’s a “sum” game and they used to know that...

What they’re doing now is not “for the 50th”...its simple desperation as they try to make more money going forward...both prices AND increased attendance.

I don’t want to spitball this...but the satisfaction of customers of those “smaller” lands at uni seem to be consistently higher (they’re older) than the new Abrams land or toy story...or nfl

Avatar is great.

But my contention is they all are still not doing what needs to be done - which is allow for increases instead of slaves to prebooked fastpass and upsells

Agree to disagree

 

[HongKongFu]

The Star Wars land (won’t dignify that stupid name) is well built...but ALOT of it is backdrops/facades and lots of walkway space between boutique shops and food kiosks.

There just is not enough there to be a longter

Curious as to why you trivialize the backdrops and facades.......isn't that the absolutely most important thing to saturate the guest in any land. For me the physical sets are paramount, yes, even more important than rides and shops to get me to suspend disbelief.

Without Cadillac Range I have very little desire to ride Radiator Racers. without all of the fronts and architectural delights in Diagon I just don't see an effort to go on into the bank for Gringots. And if Star Wars Land didn't have those marvelous backdrops and fronts there is not much pull for me to enter Savi.
Same with Pandora. Ain't no way I'm putting in for Banshee screens if Pandora got the Toy Story treatment.

 

[networkpro]

I'll trivialize the facades and backdrops (well at least in Starwars Land {aka Black Spire Outpost on Batuu} ) as it could be almost in any of the WDW Parks... its more comparable more to Animal Kingdom than anywhere else IMHO. Noticeably fake rounded mud and wattle.

The one ride in SWL is fun, but the rest of the area is dull... the banners, wandering storm troopers, and that poor unfortunate CM with the blue fringed hair stalking around just falls flatter than the Mandrin Orange or Dragon Fruit vegan "milks" .

 

[NickMaio]

Well, first off, the size of the lands debate was not my point at all and this started because I said "three huge lands" when I should have said "two huge lands and one average sized land". But, since we're now talking about it...

View attachment 411094

This is a comparison of the walking areas of the lands. Not sure where the acreage numbers posted above came from, but Pandora is bigger than Diagon, and Galaxy's Edge is double the size of Pandora. That qualifies as "huge" in my book.

On to your second point. There is currently exactly the same amount of stuff to do in Galaxy's Edge as there is in Diagon Alley. And soon there will be more to do than Diagon Alley. You can hate it all you want because "it's not stuff I recognize from movies!!!" but this fact does not change. In December, Galaxy's Edge will have more to do than Diagon Alley.

My main point was that this notion that Disney has stayed stationary through the 2010's is flat out wrong and dumb.

These are google Earth images what is the actual acreage?- -The numbers I posted were from a BBC article when Hogsmeade was being built and a published article from the Orlando Sentinel when Pandora was being built. - - - Your pics are meaningless to prove your point.
Having things to do that are tied to the IP is EVERYTHING.......Why make a falcon ride at all then.
It ties YOU to the "so-called" immersive land you are visiting.
Creating new things that we the customer has never experienced or seen is asinine, it makes no sense if you are trying to really immerse people.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Curious as to why you trivialize the backdrops and facades.......isn't that the absolutely most important thing to saturate the guest in any land. For me the physical sets are paramount, yes, even more important than rides and shops to get me to suspend disbelief.

Without Cadillac Range I have very little desire to ride Radiator Racers. without all of the fronts and architectural delights in Diagon I just don't see an effort to go on into the bank for Gringots. And if Star Wars Land didn't have those marvelous backdrops and fronts there is not much pull for me to enter Savi.
Same with Pandora. Ain't no way I'm putting in for Banshee screens if Pandora got the Toy Story treatment.

We on boards such as these put a lot of emphasis on “immersion”...but immersion is tied to IP.

People mob the traditional attractions because of their reputation and history...immersion is down the list.

I think what they built is cool...but longterm they need a retrofit and more draws...already

 

[HongKongFu]

The one ride in SWL is fun, but the rest of the area is dull.

Interesting.......we both, more or less, rip Star Wars Land a new one but for very different reasons:
I hate the Falcon ride and you find it fun

You don't like the facades and backdrops and I find them top tier.