Is Walt Disney Imagineering dead?

[phillip9698]

I remember the robot of the Mummy himself being so hyped up when that opened. It's the most ridiculous awkward robot I've ever seen. That one's at least always good for a couple laughs, including the ending with Brendan Fraser yelling about coffee on a screen as you arrive at the exit, leaving you incredulous.

Yeah that ending with the coffee is just so out of place but I find everything else to be pretty enjoyable as the coaster itself is much better than RnRC. It certainly qualifies as a ride and shows you can have a coaster with show scenes.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

The short coaster portions are remarkably tacky with neon signs of things. You went from massive highly detailed sets of New York with King Kongs attacking aerial trams to an awkward IJA ripoff with absolutely no effort put into the dark roller coaster portions.

 

[Brainleech419]

If you look at everything through nostaglia-tinted glasses and are just viewing the new rides and lands at other parks through youtube videos where you have been on classics like the haunted mansion hundred's of times to pick up all the little details to determine the story. Then sure it may seem like that the creativity of WED is dead. but if you go out and experience them first hand you can see through all the ip that creativity is alive in the parks even today.

 

[TROR]

If you look at everything through nostaglia-tinted glasses and are just viewing the new rides and lands at other parks through youtube videos where you have been on classics like the haunted mansion hundred's of times to pick up all the little details to determine the story. Then sure it may seem like that the creativity of WED is dead. but if you go out and experience them first hand you can see through all the ip that creativity is alive in the parks even today.

I think Cars Land is the newest thing Disney has done that I've experienced 100% first hand, and I'll be honest it's great, but if you give me Cars Land and you give me Adventureland, Adventureland wins without contest. Buena Vista Street is honestly probably the best thing WDI has put out in the past decade. BVS does have its problems, but they can all be pinned on 2001's Sunshine Plaza.

 

[Californian Elitist]

If you look at everything through nostaglia-tinted glasses and are just viewing the new rides and lands at other parks through youtube videos where you have been on classics like the haunted mansion hundred's of times to pick up all the little details to determine the story. Then sure it may seem like that the creativity of WED is dead. but if you go out and experience them first hand you can see through all the ip that creativity is alive in the parks even today.

I’ve been going to the parks every year, getting first-hand experience for years. The creativity isn’t there, in my opinion.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I think Cars Land is the newest thing Disney has done that I've experienced 100% first hand, and I'll be honest it's great, but if you give me Cars Land and you give me Adventureland, Adventureland wins without contest. Buena Vista Street is honestly probably the best thing WDI has put out in the past decade. BVS does have its problems, but they can all be pinned on 2001's Sunshine Plaza.

I agree, BVS is the best thing to come from DCA. I actually prefer walking down BVS than going through Cars Land, and I like Cars Land.

 

[Figments Friend]

I see it like this:

Imagine an imagineer is given a brand new box of 64 crayons with which he/she can color their drawing.
However, just when they're about to get started, their boss comes into the room and takes the crayon box away, and only gives them back 6 crayons. "Here, this'll be good enough to get the job done", he says. He/she then takes those six crayons and does their best, all the while knowing that they are being absolutely limited by a boss who doesn't care to understand how much better something can be when they're given more creative freedom.

THIS 120%

Brilliantly stated in terms anyone can understand.
I don't think i have ever read a better metaphorical, simplified explanation of the inner challenges of working at WDI.

Absolute truth.


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[DDLand]

Mystic Manor is wonderful. Fans of classic Disney Dark rides will love it. It’s very intimate in scale. It never should have been integrated with Sea, but beyond that the art style is fun.

Let’s remember, the Audio Animotronics in Pirates and Haunted Mansion are both cartoony.

Anyone that is negative about Battle for the Sunken Treasure probably hasn’t ridden it. If they have and still manage to be negative... Is there anyone negative who’s ridden it? There was a 3 year old girl that got a little hysterical, but even she had to be impressed by the visuals.

Pandora is good storytelling. Poorly placed, but very good storytelling. I love that Environmental Science!

Disney CAN make great things. I do worry some of their priorities are out of whack and that they’re kept from ever getting the chance. Still, we’ve got some sick stuff in the pipeline.

My advice to domestic fans that feel like WDI can’t bring it, wait until 2019.

I also love how all the vehicles stop briefly as you are transitioning to Pooh's dream. It's more impressive compared to other versions. The music helps.

I think that ride has aged poorly. It’s over rated.

 

[brb1006]

Mystic Manor is wonderful. Fans of classic Disney Dark rides will love it. It’s very intimate in scale. It never should have been integrated with Sea, but beyond that the art style is fun.

Let’s remember, the Audio Animotronics in Pirates and Haunted Mansion are both cartoony.

Anyone that is negative about Battle for the Sunken Treasure probably hasn’t ridden it. If they have and still manage to be negative... Is there anyone negative who’s ridden it? There was a 3 year old girl that got a little hysterical, but even she had to be impressed by the visuals.

Pandora is good storytelling. Poorly placed, but very good storytelling. I love that Environmental Science!

Disney CAN make great things. I do worry some of their priorities are out of whack and that they’re kept from ever getting the chance. Still, we’ve got some sick stuff in the pipeline.

My advice to domestic fans that feel like WDI can’t bring it, wait until 2019.



I think that ride has aged poorly. It’s over rated.

Aged poorly? The AA's for the characters actually look better compared to the plastic look not to mention the set design. Especially since the character look more expressive and alive in that version thanks to them given furr.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

As is often stated, the difference between Good & Great is in the details.

Gen III WDI has been creating some excellent stuff. But there has simultaneously been a seemingly institutionalized loss of attention or knowledge of little details in certain areas. I often find myself looking at a project that is 90% well done, but misses some smaller aspects that could have easily been done right - had the knowledge or care been there. This is extremely frustrating - like tripping at the finish line of a marathon.

Near the top of my littany of "little stuff they once did right, but miss now" is WDI's incorpration of extremely overt, modern displays into areas/attractions that are set in the pre-digital eras:
View attachment 271143

They even go out of their way to replace perfectly fine analog displays (like those at the Haunted Mansion) with LCDs, spending money to make a place less immersive - their favorite word.

There are many other similar little things (e.g. designing custom exit signs to fit the environment; using illustrations in place of photos in period areas - particularly on menus/QSR venues; using authentic materials when possible in place of shaped plastic, such as "wooden" roof shingles) that seem to have become lost arts to WDI now.

Again, these little details add up to the difference between good & great, IMO.

This!

I noticed exactly this issue when I visited Shanghai Disneyland. There’s really impressive design work, and then there are, for example, modern ceiling fans that look store-bought in the Pirates queue.

Thankfully, WDI does still do “all-in” immersive environments (e.g., Pandora), but then they also do things like in Shanghai. This inconsistency is really unfortunate. It definitely affected my experience significantly in Shanghai.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I wish Disney would be more chintzy and charming. Despite the over-reliance on screens in their modern attractions, Universal loads up their parks with that kind of stuff. Strolling through the Harry Potter districts is so much more pleasing than the newer lands at Disney.

Diagon Alley has static bricks at the entrance with an obvious speaker playing the sound of the bricks moving, not unlike the speaker at the exit of The Haunted Mansion playing ghoulish laughter. Even the Forbidden Journey has all this chintzy HM-esque stuff in between the screens such as spiders illuminated by strobe lights and dementors that are giant versions of the pop-up heads in the HM graveyard. You might be fooled into thinking it's a technologically advanced modern thrill ride, but it's actually loaded with low-tech chintzy charming elements.

I just don't find that sort of attention to chintz in modern Disney stuff. I guess the Avatar boat ride. That was interesting. It's like POTC bayou and cave scenes crossed with the E.T. green planet. A recipe for success.

 

[kap91]

I wish Disney would be more chintzy and charming. Despite the over-reliance on screens in their modern attractions, Universal loads up their parks with that kind of stuff. Strolling through the Harry Potter districts is so much more pleasing than the newer lands at Disney.

Diagon Alley has static bricks at the entrance with an obvious speaker playing the sound of the bricks moving, not unlike the speaker at the exit of The Haunted Mansion playing ghoulish laughter. Even the Forbidden Journey has all this chintzy HM-esque stuff in between the screens such as spiders illuminated by strobe lights and dementors that are giant versions of the pop-up heads in the HM graveyard. You might be fooled into thinking it's a technologically advanced modern thrill ride, but it's actually loaded with low-tech chintzy charming elements.

I just don't find that sort of attention to chintz in modern Disney stuff. I guess the Avatar boat ride. That was interesting. It's like POTC bayou and cave scenes crossed with the E.T. green planet. A recipe for success.

This would be the first time I've ever heard Universal referred to as charming.

 

[dweezil78]

I think Cars Land is the newest thing Disney has done that I've experienced 100% first hand, and I'll be honest it's great, but if you give me Cars Land and you give me Adventureland, Adventureland wins without contest.

Adventureland has also had 60+ years to grow into its own (including the lush jungle atmosphere we know today). After 60 years of existing, any place - fabricated or not - will feel far more real and authentic. Back in its first decade, things weren't quite the same...

 

[TROR]

Adventureland has also had 60+ years to grow into its own (including the lush jungle atmosphere we know today). After 60 years of existing, any place - fabricated or not - will feel far more real and authentic. Back in its first decade, things weren't quite the same...

Tree growth isn't going to help Cars Land, though. Adventureland has had room to grow and adapt, but Cars Land doesn't have that luxury so long as it's Cars Land. If it was Car Land, that'd be a different discussion. But Cars Land must always be Radiator Springs. Never changing. Exactly as it is in the movie.

 

[dweezil78]

Tree growth isn't going to help Cars Land, though. Adventureland has had room to grow and adapt, but Cars Land doesn't have that luxury so long as it's Cars Land. If it was Car Land, that'd be a different discussion. But Cars Land must always be Radiator Springs. Never changing. Exactly as it is in the movie.

I suspect that if you come back to Radiator Springs in 60 years time, it will have taken some surprising twists and turns during that time. Assuming the planet it still here and we haven't blown ourselves to bits.

 

[BrianLo]

I’m doing some field research to follow up on this. Ok pure happenstance. Shangai’s Pirates just does not covert to YouTube. There is also so much more set dressing than gets mentioned. Sure there ‘only’ Four AA’s, but there are also rooms and rooms of excellent set dressing. Also really the whole West side of Shanghai Disneyland is just fantastic. I still think Camp Doscovery is the under rated gem.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

They should turn Cars Land into Tatooine. It's redundant to have so many Pixar lands in DCA.

 

[GoofyCathy]

I'd be inclined to agree with this. I'm sure they had basically no money and very tight constraints to work with regarding Pixar Pier.

I kind of disagree with this...creativity doesn’t cost much more. When they added that Little Mermaid attraction/ride at MK, we were so excited! Man, what a letdown. It has absolutely NO creativity. Plastic moving flowers...horrid. C’mon imagineers!

 

[Model3 McQueen]

Adventureland has also had 60+ years to grow into its own (including the lush jungle atmosphere we know today). After 60 years of existing, any place - fabricated or not - will feel far more real and authentic. Back in its first decade, things weren't quite the same...

Tree growth isn't going to help Cars Land, though. Adventureland has had room to grow and adapt, but Cars Land doesn't have that luxury so long as it's Cars Land. If it was Car Land, that'd be a different discussion. But Cars Land must always be Radiator Springs. Never changing. Exactly as it is in the movie.

Beautiful picture! So here's the thing, Adventureland is pretty general in what it is trying to be. It's timeless and realistic. Cars Land pertains to a single IP, one that I don't think has a chance in heck of lasting 60 years. Maybe if they decide to dedicate the area to classic cars and not to the movie; but god knows Chapek would hate this idea.

You might ask me, what does classic cars have to do with Disney? Well.. what did Adventureland, or the railroad, have to do with Disney? Nothing, but Walt wanted them anyway.

 

[dweezil78]

Cars Land pertains to a single IP, one that I don't think has a chance in heck of lasting 60 years.

As a wise man once said, you're not thinking 4th dimensionally! You don't think a long-forgotten Route 66 town with a beautiful massive, realistic looking mountain backdrop has a chance of lasting 60 years? I understand the town of "Radiator Springs," as it exists today, was pulled from the movie 'Cars' -- but that doesn't mean it has to always remain connected to it and feature characters and stories from that film.

And let's be serious here... 90% of Carsland is that incredible mountain rock work and show building. The rest is set dressing that could easily be changed out (or flattened) to suit whatever it is they want to do with the land years from now. The heart of the land would still beat without any of it. 60 years from now Chapek will be dead and the company will have morphed just as much as it has in the past 60 years, so who really knows what the direction will be then.

Listen... I love Adventureland, I really do. But it you dissect its parts, it's comprised mostly of trees with some architecture rooted in 50s/60s tiki culture, some generic jungle-y looking shops, and then some really out of place arabic stuff that was forced in there after Aladdin came out. To your point it is general, not sure if I'd necessarily say timeless or realistic. It mainly works because it's always been there in some form or another.

While I'm certainly not a huge fan of IP-based lands (despite what some may think), I'm less of a proponent for keeping things general and basic because of some fear that it won't age well.