brb1006
Well-Known Member
I also love how all the vehicles stop briefly as you are transitioning to Pooh's dream. It's more impressive compared to other versions. The music helps.
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Is Walt Disney Imagineering dead?
- Thread starter TROR
- Start date
1. Winnie the Pooh flying
2. Next to Owl's house
3. Tigger
4. Winnie drifting into the Twilight Zone
5 & 6. A couple of times in the Heffalumps and Woozles bit
7. Pooh in hunny heaven
They are really short but it's definitely odd the designers of these rides to have them stop so much, though.
Yeah I know. It's really great scene. Gives me a headache to watch, though...
brb1006
Well-Known Member
Odd? I actually like that approach especially since it's the first LPS trackless ride. Some of the stops can give guests more time to look at the scenery and what's going on. It really feels like the Pooh universe got brought to life. Which is also why I love the way the Pooh characters are designed in that attraction.
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Odd. Yes, it gives guests more time to look around at the scenery, but it's odd because with something like the Haunted Mansion you're given plenty of time to look at the sets without ever coming to a full stop (unless playful spooks interrupt your tour).
kap91
Well-Known Member
If you don’t think there’s a ton of people in Imagineering who view theme parks as art you really haven’t looked hard. Joe Rohde being the most vocal example. And he’s the one directly behind Pandora - which you seem to despise.
It seems to me that you don’t really have a firm grasp on what it is you want, just that you know you aren’t getting it. It also seems like those preferences are informed by a pretty narrow idea of what a ride is. You keep moving the goal posts. Ride vehicle’s movement isn’t explained: horrible storytelling! Ride vehicle is explained: WHY DO THEY FEEL THE NEED TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.
Yes the classic rides of the 60s through the 80s generally take the form of “slowly move past scenes that play on loop”. That was less a creative decision and more a decision based on technological necessity. Same thing with vehicle motion. Vehicles didn’t stop largely because the ride controls and systems available didn’t allow it. These days the technology available is virtually limitless and thus the type and breadth of storytelling techniques have increased and changed. Just because it isn’t like it used to me, or match your preferences, doesn’t mean it’s bad.
The one big difference that I’d say is negative, that you haven’t actually mentioned, between past attractions and the current breed is scale. Attractions these days are generally shorter and much more intimate. I don’t think that necessarily has to be bad, as there’s plenty of cool things that can be done in those contexts that can’t be done otherwise. But it does leave a longing for experiences that can’t be had otherwise , and this is what I think you’re experiencing, for larger grander, more passive experiences of old. Pirates, Mansion, Horizons, World of Motion, Imagination, GMR (interesting a ride that stops repeatedly)- those rides don’t have better story than Shanghai Pirates, Manor, RSR, etc but what they do have is a very different style (I’d encourage you to read David Younger es “theme park design” and look up the difference between presentational and new traditional ride styles) and they have much grander, larger scales with less intimacy. There is something great about slipping into that dream like state and having the slow, beautiful experience of the attraction wash over you.
I do think you speak to this desire to have those types of atttactions again, a desire many people share, I just also think you’re not terribly good at defining it, think it’s the only good way to make an attraction, and feel the need to write off everything else as bad because it doesn’t fit this personal taste. Hence how one second you say it’s the lack of story that the problem, then it’s too much story, then it’s how the vehicle moves, then it’s IP, then it’s screens, then it’s whatever other arbitrary quality.
I don’t mean to be harsh, it’s clear you have an appreciation for some of the best attractions ever designed, and understand on an intuitive level that they’re good. But I’d encourage you to spend more time really thinking about what it is you like about them, and maybe reading some of th great theme park theory that’s out there, before latching on to the first idea that hits and then disparaging and completely writing off thousands of designers who pour their lives into creating these experiences. As with most things in life there’s incredible nuance in the decisions that get made and usually they’re worth considering.
Sorry for the 2AM semi rant.
dweezil78
Well-Known Member
Don't you ever just take a moment to pause, reflect, and consider the fact that we started off as stupid cavemen neanderthals who ate grass and are at a point in time where these amazing theme park attractions even exist in the first place -- even with all that is going on in the world right now? I do all the time. #LateNightThoughts
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
People always mention RSR. The scenery and racing portions are excellent, but the dark ride portions are just bizarre and mostly boring. You just ride by each car and they say something to you. You actually just see everything that's in the land anyway? It's kinda lazy.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I think one of the fundamental problems with wdi is that they don't understand where and who they work for..
It's not an "art department"...it's a creative engineering department that is a division of a huge stock company that wants no BS profits. Engineering needs to be applied efficiently and delivered in a somewhat cost effective matter.
It's not an easy position to be in...but they're in it. Animal kingdom is the poster child of what's wrong and has been since day one. Worker mentality isn't what it was in 1965 and things cost money. You can't have that clown blowing budgets all over the place and have it be "ok" in the business world. The internet changed all that...no secrets can be kept.
Art matters...but not to the money people. That's a fantasy world that the book has closed on.
180º
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I also find RSR kinda boring. So many new rides are missing out on mood. RSR isn’t moody in the slightest. Na’vi River Journey at least has some kind of mood that is built and sustained, even though it’s too short and not much happens. I know I’m in the extreme minority here but I think I prefer Na’vi over Racers for that reason. Ya know, as much as I resent it, GOTGM:B also has a mood, which I must give it credit for. The problem with that is the mood breaks once the ride starts, unlike ToT in which the the ride got moodier and moodier as it went along.
I think you’re absolutely right that this is how WDI thinks nowadays. Ironically, they’re more egregiously overbudget than ever. The problem with just hiring skilled technicians, and designing literal translations of settings, is that the only way to make it interesting is to spend gobs of money to make it as real as possible. Artists by nature usually have some idea of shorthand, a way to communicate enough information in a controlled, stylized way rather than giving a literal reproduction of a scene. The result is more interesting and I suspect it is more cost effective. My best suggestion for a comparison between charming, stylish, artistic WDI of the past and clinical, literal, unimaginative WDI of the present is Hollywood and Sunset Boulevards at DHS versus Buena Vista Street at DCA. The former looks less than real and prioritizes mood over reality to great effect. The latter was designed by competent architects and looks like a really nice shopping mall.
So it’s Literal versus Creative? Disney has both. Both can be used to great effect. Many parts of Animal Kingdom is literal. Yet the rides are completely original.
Now, the adjective “moody” is described to be the missing element.
“one of the fundamental problems with wdi is that they don't understand where and who they work for..”
Aside from the parks having the highest attendance ever, anyone reading these discussion boards would agree something is amiss with the fan community. It is not short of its own drama.
Now, the adjective “moody” is described to be the missing element.
“one of the fundamental problems with wdi is that they don't understand where and who they work for..”
Aside from the parks having the highest attendance ever, anyone reading these discussion boards would agree something is amiss with the fan community. It is not short of its own drama.
brb1006
Well-Known Member
Sure HM and the older attractions are great. But the LPS ride system is new and actually more interactive by moving to different scenes.
dweezil78
Well-Known Member
I generally like the dark ride portion, but definitely have some issues with it. To your point, going thru a weird smushed version of the RSR you just came from outside is totally weird and uninspired. So many other places they could have taken us. I do like the branching paths and the experiences at Luigi's and Ramone's though.
My biggest gripe other than the indoor RSR-lite, as I've mentioned before, is how the entire ceiling and show lighting is fully exposed. That's a common characteristic of a lot of new attractions and is always an immersion killer for me. It's one of the reasons I really appreciated Nav'i River Journey at DAK -- that thing is literally covered and dripping in detail from top to bottom, wall to wall. I give them props for filling it in so well like that.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
@180º The Navi boat ride is bizarre and awkward, but I found it kind of...charming. I think because in actuality it's a D ticket sort of experience, but that adds to its charm. It's like if you did acid and went through the POTC bayou and cave scenes seeing E.T. Adventure Green Planet-esque stuff. I enjoyed how it was basically about nothing but looking at weird things on a slow-moving boat. We need that type of stuff. There are no cartoon characters saying goofy dialogue as you pass. It's an experience ride.
It does have ambiance, which I appreciate. I started giggling when you hear Horner's ethnic music as you pass the blue lady, but it was a good giggle. I really miss that man. It also gets bonus points for the smaller boats. It's easy to get your own boat, which I love. I'd probably rank it behind CTX as my second favorite attraction at AK! Sadly, all the footage of my experiences at that park was lost.
It does have ambiance, which I appreciate. I started giggling when you hear Horner's ethnic music as you pass the blue lady, but it was a good giggle. I really miss that man. It also gets bonus points for the smaller boats. It's easy to get your own boat, which I love. I'd probably rank it behind CTX as my second favorite attraction at AK! Sadly, all the footage of my experiences at that park was lost.
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Sitting and looking at a scene play out from beginning to end is how theaters work, not dark rides.
dweezil78
Well-Known Member
Correction: No... not dark rides made in the 60s that have no technical capability of starting and stopping.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Playful spooks have interrupted our tour! Please remain seated in your...doom buggy. We will proceed in just a moment.
Robbiem
Well-Known Member
The original journey into imagination effectively stopped for the introduction scene with the dream machine etc so stopping a ride to tell some stories isnt new. I wonder do the trackless rides need to stop to recharge or something? I know this is the reason for some of the star tours space scenes - as well as being part of the story it has a practical application allowing the hydraulics to recharge
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I believe there are charging pads along the route for the LPS ride vehicles.
phillip9698
Well-Known Member
This just in, The Mummy coaster at Universal is not a ride.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I remember the robot of the Mummy himself being so hyped up when that opened. It's the most ridiculous awkward robot I've ever seen. That one's at least always good for a couple laughs, including the ending with Brendan Fraser yelling about coffee on a screen as you arrive at the exit, leaving you incredulous.