Is the future bleak for Disneyworld, Disneyland, etc?

[eliza61nyc]

So an objective consensus is not possible then?
…like…ever?

Sure it is, again it depends on the who. What and why.
Goofy mentioned that he was "baffled" why we still go when we are supposedly paying more and getting less.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have seen it where other places and parks are looked down on by some of you. I can't count the number of times people have said regional parks are just concrete jungles with exposed steel everywhere.

On top of that when other vacation places are mentioned like Myrtle Beach or other Florida areas like Tampa, it's made fun of cause it's not Ocean City, NJ or New England beach front.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

I'm aware of all the asset vs. debt stuff. My point and opinion was that they have a lot of leeway and a crapload of cash flow so any imminent problem doesn't exist. It's just that with the pressure from Florida and Paris at the moment it seems that WDW is somewhat in danger. It is not. A lot of people have speculated that Florida's illegal take over of RCID will negatively affect WDW, but it hasn't yet so the prediction is somewhat premature. It may, but it hasn't yet and long term it is still the wisest move to fight out this travesty of freedom to a positive conclusion. They have found creative way to charge for everything and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a crack team of accountants currently trying to figure out a way to charge for the air around the parks.

I do believe that they have a couple of assets that would be wise to cut lose, I don't see ABC as one of them. Even if the spreadsheet has an in the red balance on paper, the position of having a large media complex affords it many other advantages that positively affect other parts of TWDC.

I think that Disney is playing too many games, they are starting to get sued as well as not making the money they once did, all this adds up to a down turn that can happen quickly. DIS closed today below $80 and there is a reason for this, they are making many unforced errors that could kill them. Their movies are on a huge losing streak, they are losing on DVD sales because of streaming, which they entered only to lose billions on that.
If every sector of their company is losing or making minimal returns and only the parks are carrying them, that becomes dangerous and may end up selling assets. If they did another round of lock downs and WDW has to stop, they could free fall, or get bought out by apple and could be a fire sale. Most of all Disney has lost a good chunk of its good will, a lot of people no longer look at them as a family friendly wholesome company, that they could drop their kid in front of any movie that said Disney, even in WDW if you brought your young child past the BBB boutique, you may have to cover their eyes or when among the drunks at EPCOT.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I agree with most of what you said, I think that Disney is playing too many games, they are starting to get sued as well as not making the money they once did, all this adds up to a down turn that can happen quickly. DIS closed today below $80 and there is a reason for this, they are making many unforced errors that could kill them. Their movies are on a huge losing streak, they are losing on DVD sales because of streaming, which they entered only to lose billions on that.
If every sector of their company is losing or making minimal returns and only the parks are carrying them, that becomes dangerous and may end up selling assets. If they did another round of lock downs and WDW has to stop, they could free fall, or get bought out by apple and could be a fire sale. Most of all Disney has lost a good chunk of its good will, a lot of people no longer look at them as a family friendly wholesome company, that they could drop their kid in front of any movie that said Disney, even in WDW if you brought your young child past the BBB boutique, you may have to cover their eyes or when among the drunks at EPCOT.

Disney is no longer family friendly? I wish someone had told this to the 27 bazillion families running all over the parks with 27 bazillion strollers in late September. If only they had stayed away from that heathen hellscape, we could have gotten on more rides.

 

[Marionnette]

Disney is no longer family friendly? I wish someone had told this to the 27 bazillion families running all over the parks with 27 bazillion strollers in late September. If only they had stayed away from that heathen hellscape, we could have gotten on more rides.

How many is a bazillion? Is it more than a trillion but less than a googolplex?

 

[eliza61nyc]

So here's the problem those "facts" are based on conditions in the past. It's like telling me I'm stupid for buying a car now because in 2020 I got more for less money or better yet, I used to get gas for 60c a gallon guess that make me crazy for still buying gas and I live in the middle of a major city so I do have a choice.
Here's the thing I haven't found a way to go back to in time so implying I'm stupid for paying what Disney ask for now is assuming I have a choice in the cost of my vacation, outside of simply not going.
Actually I think I'm perfectly grounded in reality. I go on line, plug in what I want and the vendor gives me a price. The price is not in dracema and its not bait and switch.
I then decide based on a variety of factors whether that cost is acceptable

So thank you. I always enjoy my windmills. I prefer them to living in memories of the "ye good old days"

 

[rootbeerkid]

I post rarely. There was something that unexpectedly happened over the weekend related to this topic. I came across a spreadsheet with detailed estimated and actual expenses for a September, 2015, weeklong trip. I went to Disney website to cost a similar package. I was not so surprised at the cost change (about 2.5x) as I was the sense of loss that I felt. The loss is for a simpler time where we could go less constrained. I'm sure a part of the loss is aging and the longing for an increasingly fading youth. It's not a loss of want of "adventure" - that word still has meaning.

In 2017, we were still very passionate and wanted a hedge against Disney inflation. So we bought an OKW DVC resale and then purchased 12 Platinum annual pass vouchers. We were set with tickets and room for years! Now, it seems like a somewhat foolish decision. Maybe we'll regain some enthusiasm - DVC goes to 2057 and vouchers go to 2099. I'm pessimistic. We'll use the DVC as we really like Vero Beach and other places in Orlando. I'm skeptical we'll use any of the vouchers. I just didn't anticipate the decline in desire to attend the parks.

 

[BuddyThomas]

How many is a bazillion? Is it more than a trillion but less than a googolplex?

It’s so many that the major rides were all two hour waits or more and the smaller rides were 45 minutes average. And of course, in order to ride Rise of the Resistance at all, we had to pay $25.00 each. Otherwise, we would have been in line all day long. This. The future is not bleak for Disney. At all.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s built, priced and operated to make profits of masses of people

There’s really no way to explain it any other way…

There is no “I” there…and never has been.

You want to have “uniqueness”?…write poetry.

 

[HauntedPirate]

So here's the problem those "facts" are based on conditions in the past. It's like telling me I'm stupid for buying a car now because in 2020 I got more for less money or better yet, I used to get gas for 60c a gallon guess that make me crazy for still buying gas and I live in the middle of a major city so I do have a choice.
Here's the thing I haven't found a way to go back to in time so implying I'm stupid for paying what Disney ask for now is assuming I have a choice in the cost of my vacation, outside of simply not going.
Actually I think I'm perfectly grounded in reality. I go on line, plug in what I want and the vendor gives me a price. The price is not in dracema and its not bait and switch.
I then decide based on a variety of factors whether that cost is acceptable

So thank you. I always enjoy my windmills. I prefer them to living in memories of the "ye good old days"

2015 is “the good ol days”?

I never said anyone was stupid. I said only that people are paying more for less and that telling the truth is not in any way condescending.

 

[Chi84]

2015 is “the good ol days”?

I never said anyone was stupid. I said only that people are paying more for less and that telling the truth is not in any way condescending.

Everyone everywhere is paying more for less, especially since the pandemic. That doesn’t mean people can’t still find value in things others find too expensive to justify. It’s a decision particular to each person - there isn’t any right or wrong.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

2015 is “the good ol days”?

I never said anyone was stupid. I said only that people are paying more for less and that telling the truth is not in any way condescending.

2015 is the “pivot” point for Disney parks consumers where they kinda yielded their place in consumer dynamics to Disney. But history will show if my opinion has any validity?

Everyone everywhere is paying more for less, especially since the pandemic. That doesn’t mean people can’t still find value in things others find too expensive to justify. It’s a decision particular to each person - there isn’t any right or wrong.

That’s just a tired excuse…

Their price increases have been relentless and borderline ridiculous under Bob since the housing crash

Don’t blame the germ.

I can’t figure out why “everyone is doing it…” is the only defense of every company pushing it too far?

 

[JusticeDisney]

2015 is “the good ol days”?

I never said anyone was stupid. I said only that people are paying more for less and that telling the truth is not in any way condescending.

It’s a fact that people are paying more. Just like they are everywhere else. It is not a fact that they are getting less for more. That’s the problem with your position. You act as if it is beyond dispute that WDW now offers less than it used to. It is not. What’s condescending is when someone insists that their “truth” must be everyone’s “truth.” Depending on what you like about WDW or what you actually do there, you might be getting less for more, or you might actually be getting more for more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sure it is, again it depends on the who. What and why.
Goofy mentioned that he was "baffled" why we still go when we are supposedly paying more and getting less.

Well “baffled” is too far.

But the idea that the value has declined is not a “fringe” or “isolated” opinion.

Because you can’t always quantify the consensus…doesn’t mean you can dismiss the idea of a consensus (not “you”…to be clear)

The impossible way to quantify this would be a mandatory poll of everyone who was old enough - and paid a bill - to rate value of their trips in to year intervals:
1990 2000 2010 2020

That would also take into account operational changes/improvements as part of “value”

So how would the results fall?

It would be heavily tilted and that’s the “consensus”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s a fact that people are paying more. Just like they are everywhere else. It is not a fact that they are getting less for more. That’s the problem with your position. You act as if it is beyond dispute that WDW now offers less than it used to. It is not. What’s condescending is when someone insists that their “truth” must be everyone’s “truth.” Depending on what you like about WDW or what you actually do there, you might be getting less for more, or you might actually be getting more for more.

Well with the cut of bus service and the paid fastpass…there is no argument we pay more for less. They didn’t reduce prices.

That’s an actual empirical fact. No debate.

So if price increased with those things intact…you can blame the Vid…which was just corporate greed.

But there’s no way to do that here.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Well with the cut of bus service and the paid fastpass…there is no argument we pay more for less. They didn’t reduce prices.

That’s an actual empirical fact. No debate.

So if price increased with those things intact…you can blame the Vid…which was just corporate greed.

But there’s no way to do that here.

You cite to something we no longer receive and then conclude that, as a result, it’s a fact that we now pay more for less. LOL! I could just as quickly cite to many things that we now have that we did not used to have and very easily make the counterpoint.

 

[eliza61nyc]

2015 is the “pivot” point for Disney parks consumers where they kinda yielded their place in consumer dynamics to Disney. But history will show if my opinion has any validity?

That’s just a tired excuse…

Their price increases have been relentless and borderline ridiculous under Bob since the housing crash

Don’t blame the germ.

I can’t figure out why “everyone is doing it…” is the only defense of every company pushing it too far?

As you and HP have said, doesn't make it less true


It's not a defense. It's an observation
So yes, here is you and @HauntedPirate you are right, people today are paying more for stuff than they did in 2015.

Now I'm going to make an outrageous statement. In 2030 companies will be charging more than they are in 2023

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As you and HP have said, doesn't make it less true


It's not a defense. It's an observation
So yes, here is you and @HauntedPirate you are right, people today are paying more for stuff than they did in 2015.

Now I'm going to make an outrageous statement. In 2030 companies will be charging more than they are in 2023

Correct…

Which doesn’t negate the “less value” stance at all.

It’s a “bridge” that does not exist

 

[Chi84]

It’s a fact that people are paying more. Just like they are everywhere else. It is not a fact that they are getting less for more. That’s the problem with your position. You act as if it is beyond dispute that WDW now offers less than it used to. It is not. What’s condescending is when someone insists that their “truth” must be everyone’s “truth.” Depending on what you like about WDW or what you actually do there, you might be getting less for more, or you might actually be getting more for more.

I think it could be that people don't understand the subjective concept of value as opposed to the objective concept of worth. The elimination of Magical Express affects the overall worth of a WDW vacation because something that was included is now gone. But Magical Express has no value to someone who never used it and never intends to use it, so its elimination has no impact on their calculation of how much a WDW vacation is costing them. It held no value for them.

On the other hand, I personally did not enjoy MK fireworks shows (and actually tried to leave before them) because I couldn't stand the stress of trying to get a good spot to see the castle projections or whatever and then worrying about someone standing in front of me at the last minute. So the addition of dessert parties with reserved viewing areas, even though it cost me more, added value to my vacation because I now enjoy the fireworks. Something that costs more and other people don't like has value for me.

People want to calculate value for everyone using their own opinions, and it just doesn't work. You can dislike this fact and complain about its impact on WDW and unfairness to the world as a whole, but you can't change it.

 

[Tha Realest]

You cite to something we no longer receive and then conclude that, as a result, it’s a fact that we now pay more for less. LOL! I could just as quickly cite to many things that we now have that we did not used to have and very easily make the counterpoint.

Cost of a rental car or Ubering to WDW from/to MCO is easily $200+. G+ is, on average, $100/day. Please give me a few examples of these “many things” that offset the increase of $300-$700 per vacation for a family of five. I’ll be generous and leave the rapid increases of hotel rooms, variable ticket pricing, and food increases out of the equation.