Rumor Is the End of Innoventions Near?

[gustaftp]

keeping the buildings was likely more expensive than demolishing them and building something new. So even on that level it didn't make sense.

A lot of people keep saying this, but in my experience of studying adaptive reuse of historic properties, it is rare that tearing down and rebuilding is less expensive than repurposing cared-for and flexible spaces. There's a reason why when someone wants to tear something down to build new, they often have their hands out for tax-increment financing: unless taxpayer money is thrown at such a project, it usually isn't economically feasible to demolish and build anew unless a building is practically caving in.

WOL was studied for demolition, had a leaking roof, and far more unique of a design that undoubtedly cost more to maintain than than Communicore did. Instead, Disney decided to keep WOL.

As Martin and others have pointed out, the Comminicore buildings are large, flexible use buildings specifically designed to accommodate changing needs. They were built with modern construction methods and techniques, and were maintained. I think the scenario of being told not to feel constrained to existing buildings is more likely. There's no way it was less expensive to tear down and build something new. It just isn't plausible.

 

[CJR]

The cheapest was the clear everything plan.

Was this the art from two years ago? I wonder if the reaction persuaded them to go up a notch.

 

[DanielBB8]

Minor park? At WDW or worldwide?

Obviously WDW and you know it.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

A lot of people keep saying this, but in my experience of studying adaptive reuse of historic properties, it is rare that tearing down and rebuilding is less expensive than repurposing cared-for and flexible spaces. There's a reason why when someone wants to tear something down to build new, they often have their hands out for tax-increment financing: unless taxpayer money is thrown at such a project, it usually isn't economically feasible to demolish and build anew unless a building is practically caving in.

WOL was studied for demolition, had a leaking roof, and far more unique of a design that undoubtedly cost more to maintain than than Communicore did. Instead, Disney decided to keep WOL.

As Martin and others have pointed out, the Comminicore buildings are large, flexible use buildings specifically designed to accommodate changing needs. They were built with modern construction methods and techniques, and were maintained. I think the scenario of being told not to feel constrained to existing buildings is more likely. There's no way it was less expensive to tear down and build something new. It just isn't plausible.

I guess we just don't know how it all looked when they crunched the numbers on these buildings. Well, I suppose Marni does! He did mention the money pit that retrofitting the Universe of Energy building for the Guardians queue ended up becoming, so that is at least a hint toward what can happen when you start poking around these older buildings.

Presumably, they could just move some walls around inside the old Communicore building and continue to use it for meet and greets and exhibition space and that would have been cheaper. That's allowing the existing buildings to dictate their plans for the park rather than figuring out what they want to do and then executing that plan. If they want to lean in to the festivals with a dedicated festival center, I'd much rather they build a new, open, and more attractive structure for it than shoehorn it into what honestly looks like a 1980s convention center.

More than demolishing one half of Communicore, it's leaving the other side that seems lazy to me. It seems they more or less want to keep and renovate the facilities that are already there which makes some sense. I think it will look strange, though, seems to go against their apparent desire to open up the area.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Obviously WDW and you know it.

I would consider Epcot, DHS and DAK major theme parks and not minor. That’s why I asking.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I guess we just don't know how it all looked when they crunched the numbers on these buildings. Well, I suppose Marni does! He did mention the money pit that retrofitting the Universe of Energy building for the Guardians queue ended up becoming, so that is at least a hint toward what can happen when you start poking around these older buildings.

Presumably, they could just move some walls around inside the old Communicore building and continue to use it for meet and greets and exhibition space and that would have been cheaper. That's allowing the existing buildings to dictate their plans for the park rather than figuring out what they want to do and then executing that plan. If they want to lean in to the festivals with a dedicated festival center, I'd much rather they build a new, open, and more attractive structure for it than shoehorn it into what honestly looks like a 1980s convention center.

More than demolishing one half of Communicore, it's leaving the other side that seems lazy to me. It seems they more or less want to keep and renovate the facilities that are already there which makes some sense. I think it will look strange, though, seems to go against their apparent desire to open up the area.

What they’re building isn’t something that stretches the usefulness of the Communicore building. A convention center type space is perfect for a rotating set of exhibits for various festivals. The real loss is of the spatial organization of the front part of the park. The Communicore buildings were space making objects and one is now being replaced by an object in space, a problematic trend with much of Disney’s additions.

 

[DanielBB8]

I would consider Epcot, DHS and DAK major theme parks and not minor. That’s why I asking.

Yet you clearly identified each. Even Disney did not call them equivalent to Magic Kingdom. Only with the addition of attractions to make them better would you one day not call them minor.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It can’t be just rides too. You need variety. This isn’t Six Flags. Plus a lot of the guest might like the different festivals and want less rides. What you like could be totally opposite of what is important to them. I like a nice variety.

Some people like reading books, but WDW shouldn’t add a library to MK. Some people like punching other people, but Epcot doesn’t need a fight club.

Epcot is a theme park. Theme parks depend on theming and rides. Epcot doesn’t have enough of either.

Turning Epcot into a year-round booze festival is a cynical betrayal of what Epcot was meant to stand for - and a cynical betrayal of what Disney supposedly stands for.

 

[marni1971]

It can’t be just rides too. You need variety. This isn’t Six Flags. Plus a lot of the guest might like the different festivals and want less rides. What you like could be totally opposite of what is important to them. I like a nice variety.

That’s why they destroyed Pleasure Island built Disney Springs.

 

[Timothy_Q]

People making excuses for the fact that all 3 non-mk parks still have an absurdly small number of rides will never not be funny

 

[flynnibus]

I kind of feel the same way. Those buildings were beginning to feel like a straitjacket, and any smart project leader would have told the design team not to feel constrained to work with the existing spaces.
[...]

So, while all of this is far from inspiring, it does seem like a better outcome than just continuing to shuffle things around inside these convention center-style buildings for all eternity.

Yup my view exactly

 

[marni1971]

So, while all of this is far from inspiring, it does seem like a better outcome than just continuing to shuffle things around inside these convention center-style buildings for all eternity.

A bar on legs is an awful outcome. IMHO.

 

[Bocabear]

I agree...this plan of destroying the organization of the front of the park is just going to make it more confusing than ever...it will be a walk past Spaceship Earth to seemingly nowhere with nothing to do even moderately close at hand...I think it is going to feel lopsided and like someone knocked half of the park down....and a giant building on stilts in the center will forever ruin the central axis views.

 

[mikejs78]

Is the music still playing?

 

[Horizons '83]

I agree...this plan of destroying the organization of the front of the park is just going to make it more confusing than ever...it will be a walk past Spaceship Earth to seemingly nowhere with nothing to do even moderately close at hand...I think it is going to feel lopsided and like someone knocked half of the park down....and a giant building on stilts in the center will forever ruin the central axis views.

But...but...the beer gardens

 

[Bocabear]

A bar on legs is an awful outcome. IMHO.

Why cant the bar on legs be built over the top of the Club Cool/Starbuck building...leave that building in place and there is even more "Festival Space" that doesn't need a tent... Just move the Fountain of Nations to the center of the courtyard, Tear down the innovations building for the Diaper Wash Water Play area, and at least the central axis and focus of the park will remain intact...

 

[lazyboy97o]

But...but...the beer gardens

Green roof beer gardens, one on each building. More greenery. Potential lower cooling costs of the structure below. Premium up charge booze space with views.

 

[Bocabear]

Green roof beer gardens, one on each building. More greenery. Potential lower cooling costs of the structure below. Premium up charge booze space with views.

EXACTLY! and less cost for construction....which should make Bob's eyes light up...

 

[Horizons '83]

Green roof beer gardens, one on each building. More greenery. Potential lower cooling costs of the structure below. Premium up charge booze space with views.

Yep. Really unfortunate.

 

[po1998]

The festival lovers are partly to blame for what is coming. Who needs attractions in the former communicore/innoventions areas, when its only purpose is to provide a pathway from SSE to WS aka EatDrinkShopWhoNeedsStupidAttractionsVille.