Rumor Is the End of Innoventions Near?

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Soooo...why is this attached to the buildings? You really missed the point of them being somewhat underwhelming compared to their brothers in FW and the current attractions are garbage. What else are you going to do with them? They aren't attraction buildings, they were purpose built for displays, stores and exhibits.
The buildings are large shells designed to be able to hold a variety of functions. What is replacing them that could not use a large shell? There’s plenty of areas to tear up poorly placed hardscape and replace it with softscape. They’re tall enough to fit multiple levels. The roof could even be reworked and reenforced to support a bar.
 

FigmentFan82

Well-Known Member
I think you should be able to know the answer to that based on my nonchalance about the area being demolished. While I visited Epcot in 96 and 99, age 4 and 7, I do not recall this so called sacred place. When I returned in 2008 I was greeted by mediocre exhibits that was so bland I'd rather have taken a nap. Now fast forward to the present and nothing of relevance exists in this space so it is a time of celebration that Disney finally decided to remove the cancer in Future World
You seem super angry. Do you need a nap? Maybe you should take a nap
 

nickys

Premium Member
Do you want a cookie or a gold star? 🤔 I guess I'll just never understand the people who were inspired by a theme park building. 💁‍♂️

It isn’t the building on it’s own. It’s what was in the building, together with the design of the building. Did you watch the video on Communicore? I didn’t visit until after Communicore had disappeared, but I really wish I had.
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
The buildings are large shells designed to be able to hold a variety of functions. What is replacing them that could not use a large shell? There’s plenty of areas to tear up poorly placed hardscape and replace it with softscape. They’re tall enough to fit multiple levels. The roof could even be reworked and reenforced to support a bar.
Exactly what I keep thinking. They're essentially convention centers aka modular to the max. You could modify the outside to make them look "modern" to appease the crowd that complains about them. For once, this is a project I wish had it's budget slashed. It just seems wasteful.

And these were built prior to the warehouse days of Disney so I wonder how little reinforcement they would need for a roof level bar. They're probably concrete bunkers.
 

gustaftp

Well-Known Member
Do you want a cookie or a gold star? 🤔 I guess I'll just never understand the people who were inspired by a theme park building. 💁‍♂️

I owe my college major to Spaceship Earth and my Information Technology career to Communicore. I guess I'll just never understand the people who willfully misinterpret and set up strawman arguments about what people are saying.

Is it? The concept of an area with hands on attractions is not, but the business model certainly is. Considering the insane rate of change and the lack of sponsor interest, what exactly would you put in there that isn't already being shunted to WoL?

The initial exhibits were extensions of the pavilions to act as a central hub of the themes (sponsors). The updated version was Innoventions, which took the same concept, but opened it to self contained areas for smaller sponsors to showcase their products and story. What is left that would make that concept viable, outside basic Disney items? Disney seems to agree with you, but they went with what they have, which is interactive IP experiences.

It just seems like a concept/model that seemed better in a world before the internet and before Best Buy...

We may not like the "new" version of this type of experience, but it doesn't look like Sega is lining up to sponsor an exhibit anymore...



Not all technology used has to be tied to a sponsor. Showcase all the amazing technology Disney is using across their parks and resorts. I work with all sorts of awesome technology as part of my job: everything from automated warehouses to dimensioning equipment to telephony to enterprise resource planning.

When people think about technology, they often think too narrowly about it, which is some of the problem with Innoventions: it was consumer focused and that stuff changes fast and is somewhat superficial. But what about the things that make things go behind the scenes? There is no less of a need for computers, servers, new ways to extract energy sources, transportation methods, construction techniques, etc. The internet can show you videos, but it doesn't provide a hands-on experience. And Best Buy just has a smattering of consumer goods. So those seem to be pretty superficial comparisons.

I really liked that a company like Siemens sponsored Spaceship Earth, and it would've been awesome if they had some sort of exhibit describing what it is they do. Having been to 3M's Innovation Center, it is very much an EPCOT-like experience that would've fit in perfectly into this space. And any number of other companies.

Part of me wonders if Disney just threw in the towel on trying, as opposed to actively looking for exhibitors and demonstrating in meaningful ways how they can effectively reach people in a deeper and more interactive way than the Internet or Best Buy can.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Exactly what I keep thinking. They're essentially convention centers aka modular to the max. You could modify the outside to make them look "modern" to appease the crowd that complains about them. For once, this is a project I wish had it's budget slashed. It just seems wasteful.

And these were built prior to the warehouse days of Disney so I wonder how little reinforcement they would need for a roof level bar. They're probably concrete bunkers.
Those celebrating the building’s demise seem to be completely forgetting, or ignoring, that its mirror is still going to exist. If one thinks they’re ugly buildings, then Disney is only doing a half assed job. If one is is excited to see wasted space replaced, they’re largely being replaced with unprogrammed space but with far less potential to again be something.

I don’t know the particulars of the roof structure, but changing from mechanical space to assembly after a few decades is a rather big change that would require work.

One thing not shown in the art for the new festival center is the fire stairs. Those don’t tend to look very pretty.
 
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trainplane3

Well-Known Member
Those celebrating the building’s demise seem to be completely forgetting, or ignoring, that its mirror is still going to exist. If one thinks they’re ugly buildings, then Disney is only doing a half assed job. If one is is exited to see wasted space replaced, they’re largely being replaced with unprogrammed space but with far less potential to again be something.

I don’t know the particulars of the roof structure, but changing from mechanical space to assembly after a few decades is a rather big change that will require work.

One thing not shown in the art for the new festival center is the fire stairs. Those don’t tend to look very pretty.
Here's the other thing about the wonder table, if there isn't a festival going on then what will be going on? Will they still use it to serve various snacks and booze? Or will it be like having the WoL dome in the middle of the park, not being used (aside from the top deck for those $$$ views)

There's a central structure coming from under the wonder table. Could the fire stairs be in there? Seems like those and a elevator would be there.
 

brettf22

Premium Member
I owe my college major to Spaceship Earth and my Information Technology career to Communicore. I guess I'll just never understand the people who willfully misinterpret and set up strawman arguments about what people are saying.
Same. EPCOT Center made me aware of the possibilities of the future - and influenced my decision to get into Software Engineering.
Add me to that list. Walking around EPCOT Center (especially Communicore) in early 1983 as a high school freshman was a transformative experience for me. It was one of, if not the defining factor in my career path into aerospace engineering.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Here's the other thing about the wonder table, if there isn't a festival going on then what will be going on? Will they still use it to serve various snacks and booze? Or will it be like having the WoL dome in the middle of the park, not being used (aside from the top deck for those $$$ views)

There's a central structure coming from under the wonder table. Could the fire stairs be in there? Seems like those and a elevator would be there.
That central structure could hold the fire stairs and this is a common means used in office buildings. The challenge is the size and it doesn’t look like a small building. The exits have to be so far apart from each other and people can only get so far apart from them. I’m doubtful that the District would allow all of the exists to discharge below the structure. If they are all allowed in that core, the doors on the ground floor cannot be obstructed, so you’re going to have to have a nice clear view of them. If the main level can hold more than 500 people it will need a third stair and if it doesn’t then that means an even worse replacement of potential capacity.

There are nice materials like glass available with the fire ratings that would be required of an assembly building like the Festival Center. They are also very expensive, so much more expensive that you will see places have a nice main stair and have a second fire stair nearby.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
The buildings are large shells designed to be able to hold a variety of functions. What is replacing them that could not use a large shell? There’s plenty of areas to tear up poorly placed hardscape and replace it with softscape. They’re tall enough to fit multiple levels. The roof could even be reworked and reenforced to support a bar.

This goes to another issue with West...It never really fit the theme of the more nature inspired side of the park...We have the neighborhoods, now, but its not like this is some new design concept for the former Future World. Just look at original East vs West in building design, landscape and features. East had jagged/angular planters, straight paths, the buildings were very mechanical/inorganic (doesn't mean bad, just not shapes associated with natural environments), little water, Imposing structures that towered over you and gleamed with steel. West had large sweeping areas, water features, buildings that were glass and had a natural shape to them (look at Imagination...the tops of the pyramids are cut and invoke mountains), winding paths and flowers/plants everywhere.

You may have never noticed that it already was two distinct areas, but your brain did...

There was one thing that never fit this, which was Communicore West...A giant, bland commercial looking building that was plopped right into the wrong side of town. What it did for the spine of the park with symmetry, it wrecked on the other side with its lack of natural theme. All they are doing now is favoring the theme of West over theme or the spine...The thing is that Communicore East is still a perfect building for the industrial look and feel of East, which is why Im guessing it will mostly survive.

Im holding out judgement on this until its done, but I hope the West side will have a more tightly themed gateway, now that it is losing the industrial façade.
 

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
Those celebrating the building’s demise seem to be completely forgetting, or ignoring, that its mirror is still going to exist. If one thinks they’re ugly buildings, then Disney is only doing a half assed job. If one is is exited to see wasted space replaced, they’re largely being replaced with unprogrammed space but with far less potential to again be something.

I applaud West's removal and I am not forgetting the mirror. Whils my OCD side appreciates the balance, I hate the mirror approach as the 2 together produce weird airflow or often, no airflow and you essentially have a dutch oven in the center. (I'll refrain from tarp discussion and only say it failed and didn't help much.) That is until you get funneled past the fountain and have to dodge the water spray due to the wind. Obviously, the time of year one visits has a direct correlation on one's experiences.

Since the East will be remodeled to look differently while maintaining the physical structure, I believe it's safe to say (and update later) that it doesn't matter if you like or don't like the looks & shape of the buildings as changes are coming.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Soooo...why is this attached to the buildings? You really missed the point of them being somewhat underwhelming compared to their brothers in FW and the current attractions are garbage. What else are you going to do with them? They aren't attraction buildings, they were purpose built for displays, stores and exhibits.
They were large, bright open areas. Fun fact - only the kitchen and restroom blocks were designed to be permanent. One in each building. Corridors, walls and exhibit areas were purposely flexible. They could easily have been repurposed and the money saved spent elsewhere.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This goes to another issue with West...It never really fit the theme of the more nature inspired side of the park...We have the neighborhoods, now, but its not like this is some new design concept for the former Future World. Just look at original East vs West in building design, landscape and features. East had jagged/angular planters, straight paths, the buildings were very mechanical/inorganic (doesn't mean bad, just not shapes associated with natural environments), little water, Imposing structures that towered over you and gleamed with steel. West had large sweeping areas, water features, buildings that were glass and had a natural shape to them (look at Imagination...the tops of the pyramids are cut and invoke mountains), winding paths and flowers/plants everywhere.

You may have never noticed that it already was two distinct areas, but your brain did...

There was one thing that never fit this, which was Communicore West...A giant, bland commercial looking building that was plopped right into the wrong side of town. What it did for the spine of the park with symmetry, it wrecked on the other side with its lack of natural theme. All they are doing now is favoring the theme of West over theme or the spine...The thing is that Communicore East is still a perfect building for the industrial look and feel of East, which is why Im guessing it will mostly survive.

Im holding out judgement on this until its done, but I hope the West side will have a more tightly themed gateway, now that it is losing the industrial façade.
The CommuniCore was the space where everything came together. It was not just angular like the east side, but once included the curving paths and landscaping of the west. It blended the hemisphere concept and sent people out into it.

I applaud West's removal and I am not forgetting the mirror. Whils my OCD side appreciates the balance, I hate the mirror approach as the 2 together produce weird airflow or often, no airflow and you essentially have a dutch oven in the center. (I'll refrain from tarp discussion and only say it failed and didn't help much.) That is until you get funneled past the fountain and have to dodge the water spray due to the wind. Obviously, the time of year one visits has a direct correlation on one's experiences.

Since the East will be remodeled to look differently while maintaining the physical structure, I believe it's safe to say (and update later) that it doesn't matter if you like or don't like the looks & shape of the buildings as changes are coming.
What you describe is an urban heat island. The problem is less about airflow and more the abundance of heat radiating materials. Softscape and shade would cool the central space. The art shows the East building remaining largely the same.
 

FigmentFan82

Well-Known Member
Imagine thinking a building with giant windows is "top notch" imagineering!!!!! A huge insult to an actual de

I have no issues with more booze, the more the merrier! Not too keen on them creating things at Epcot that encourage more gross children polluting the park though. We will see
what a troll. i needed a good laugh. thanks!
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
They were large, bright open areas. Fun fact - only the kitchen and restroom blocks were designed to be permanent. One in each building. Corridors, walls and exhibit areas were purposely flexible. They could easily have been repurposed and the money saved spent elsewhere.

this speaks volumes to me about current management, chapeks regime, and imagineers of today.
 

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