Rumor Is the End of Innoventions Near?

[mikejs78]

That'll wind up with the park looking like... a park!!!

WRT: Fountains -- Isn't World Showcase Lagoon getting updated fountains? If yes, perhaps those fountains can run in the daytime, too. Also, the main entrance will be getting a new (non-dancing) fountain.

WRT: DrunCOT -- Joke's on them... I don't drink!! Hahahaha!

I don't even mind the idea of a Beer Garden per se. It's the placement of it - right in the center of the spine and the plaza - that I don't care for. There are plenty of other places off to the side they could put it.

But hey, maybe it will be tastefully done. We will see.....

 

[TJJohn12]

Also, Future World is dead. Disney (or a corporate sponser) couldn't or didn't want to keep Communicore/Innoventions fresh, especially with how quickly all the cutting edge computer stuff became outdated. And so, that central plaza of Future World will become an extension of World Showcase. What's left of Future World will be that outer circle of pavilions that haven't been "updated".... yet.

It seems like FW has actually suffered from Moore’s Law. In 1982, a doubling of processing power every 18 months wasn’t such a big deal - doubling a few kb of ram wouldn’t be too noticeable comparing technology. That would mean the replacement schedule for early Communicore tech would be what... 6-8 year cycle?

But now that we’re on the steep end of the exponential growth, the difference in those doublings is huge. Add in that it’s not punctuated, but a curve, and you’re looking at a freshness of most large exhibits of somewhere between 6-12 months. No sponsor nor Disney can sustain that. In essence, the “top of the line” processing that any company or imagineer can throw at an exhibit will be consumer-level common in bare minimum 12 months, and max 2 years?

How long was the World Key Kiosk the “only” deep and meaningful touch screen interaction (barring ATM and transactional) that visitors had?

Tech is moving too fast for a future-themed area to keep up. So they’ve chosen to throw people at the problem - dining, M&G, Festivals. Not how I would have gone, but a viable option. Personally, I’d rather have seen each pavilion transition to an “emotion / spirit” that helps make the “future,” like innovation, creativity, harmony, stewardship... but throwing people at the problem is far more sustainable in the long haul. FestCOT is their solution to Moore’s Law. Not my choice, but still a viable option.

 

[Bender123]

Im sort of happy for a beer garden, as a beer snob...If they can get some actual microbrews and unique pours from breweries around the world, I would be happy.

It was nice to get some Tampa Bay Brewing, Cigar City and MIA..

It seems like FW has actually suffered from Moore’s Law. In 1982, a doubling of processing power every 18 months wasn’t such a big deal - doubling a few kb of ram wouldn’t be too noticeable comparing technology. That would mean the replacement schedule for early Communicore tech would be what... 6-8 year cycle?

But now that we’re on the steep end of the exponential growth, the difference in those doublings is huge. Add in that it’s not punctuated, but a curve, and you’re looking at a freshness of most large exhibits of somewhere between 6-12 months. No sponsor nor Disney can sustain that. In essence, the “top of the line” processing that any company or imagineer can throw at an exhibit will be consumer-level common in bare minimum 12 months, and max 2 years?

How long was the World Key Kiosk the “only” deep and meaningful touch screen interaction (barring ATM and transactional) that visitors had?

Tech is moving too fast for a future-themed area to keep up. So they’ve chosen to throw people at the problem - dining, M&G, Festivals. Not how I would have gone, but a viable option. Personally, I’d rather have seen each pavilion transition to an “emotion / spirit” that helps make the “future,” like innovation, creativity, harmony, stewardship... but throwing people at the problem is far more sustainable in the long haul. FestCOT is their solution to Moore’s Law. Not my choice, but still a viable option.

Shush...we don't like to take into account the realities of such things.\s

I have said it many times before, and I know people disagree with me, but the idea of Epcot being a future themed park was rooted in failure. Horizons, which I loved, was woefully and hilariously 1980s when it closed...the idea they had of the future was almost comically bad. It could have been updated, but even then, look at the changes between even 2010 and today. Im fine with the change to a general "technology and innovation" theme, so long as its done right. Everything in the front of the park (formerly known as future world) is still fairly on point with the general theme...save Soarin, but even then, it can be hammered into its hole as showing the natural wonders of the world that match with the ecology theme of The Land. JII is a terrible ride, but it does fit the theme, even if it doesn't really do it any favors. West has always been Natural science and the East side has always been technology science (yes...even WoL was medical based, so I get it could go anywhere). The changes to the pavilions hasn't really changed that breakdown, just changed their focus. Its much easier and future proof to tell "What goes into designing a car" than "Here is what a car will look like in 25 years".

The one giant hole in this logic is GotG...The jury is out on how its going to get the Energy lesson across...or if it will even try.

 

[BrianLo]

So just to be clear @marni1971 and @Magic Feather... The Festival Centre by Canada and Odyssey 3.0 - the festival centre both survive?

Or am I missing something. Why three festival centres?

 

[marni1971]

Odyssey looks like it has a reprieve thankfully.

Millennium tent / World Showplace is staying.

It’s as if they’ve run out of creativity to design a theme park. Sell more food and drink.

What nearly killed DCA in the early years again?

 

[xdan0920]

So just to be clear @marni1971 and @Magic Feather... The Festival Centre by Canada and Odyssey 3.0 - the festival centre both survive?

Or am I missing something. Why three festival centres?

Seems excessive until you think about festivals being all Epcot currently has on offer.

 

[mightynine]

Honestly, I just don’t think Disney is interested in operating fully Themed Parks anymore.

They are, but only if the theme is Disney.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So just to be clear @marni1971 and @Magic Feather... The Festival Centre by Canada and Odyssey 3.0 - the festival centre both survive?

Or am I missing something. Why three festival centres?

The one by Canada is often rented out for private parties and used only occasionally as public flex space. Since it's not generally open to the public, it doesn't really count as a festival place.

Odyssey is, for now, going to be an exhibition hall for the renovation and maybe part of it will continue to be flex space. After all is done, who knows what will happen to it. We're talking 3 years from now.

Also, consider that WoL is now removed as a festival flex space for a few years.

 

[BrianLo]

Odyssey looks like it has a reprieve thankfully.

Millennium tent / World Showplace is staying.

It’s as if they’ve run out of creativity to design a theme park. Sell more food and drink.

What nearly killed DCA in the early years again?

Probably not the comparison people want to hear... but I think they are reflecting on the success of Disney Springs.

Which isn’t inherently the worst thing to model, but we need attractions.

 

[marni1971]

Probably not the comparison people want to hear... but I think they are reflecting on the success of Disney Springs.

Which isn’t inherently the worst thing to model, but we need attractions.

It depends if you aspire to a shopping / dining facility or an admission based theme park.

 

[BrianLo]

It depends if you aspire to a shopping / dining facility or an admission based theme park.

They aspire for both: success TBD

Hence we need attractions, not just a shopping mall.

 

[carolina_yankee]

It depends if you aspire to a shopping / dining facility or an admission based theme park.

Initially, I was intrigued because hey, anything newly designed and attractive has to be better, right?

But as I started thinking about it, I'm more confused about what FW and Epcot are supposed to be. With Innoventions, a story was told that connected with the Pavilions on the perimeter of FW. They were the preface or introduction to each chapter.

Now, with the proposed design, you come through Spaceship Earth and are told to just sit a spell, grab a beer, look at the pretty things. Attractions? What attractions? Will this even invite people to the fringes of FW or introduce them in any way to what this half of the park is about? Oh, wait, it's about drinking, merchandise, and festivals! (Because that's all you see when you come through Spaceship Earth - Biergarten, Festival Center, merchandise locations).

This could be a very attractive piece of confused ideas thrown at a dart board with no attempt to tell a story.

Dirk

 

[trainplane3]

I agree, I'm puzzled with what the heck is going on. I get the festival craze but shouldn't they create actual things to do aside from turning it into a crap shopping mall?

You could still have the festival stuff around the core, but to have a beer garden as your first view as you come around SSE just seems bad. I know a concrete jungle isn't any better but you'd think they would try to make it unique. Then again, I can't think of a park that shoves booze in your face as you enter it.

Will this at least look nice? Or will it be more low effort boxes with some "themed" panelling on them?

 

[Haymarket2008]

What’s the status on the Magic Eye? It was on borrowed time last I read.... @marni1971

 

[MisterPenguin]

I agree, I'm puzzled with what the heck is going on. I get the festival craze but shouldn't they create actual things to do aside from turning it into a crap shopping mall?

That's what it already is.

We can only hope that a significant amount of kiosks around the lagoon won't be necessary once this opens. Imagine being able to eat festival food on something other than a garbage can!

 

[Horizons '83]

Probably not the comparison people want to hear... but I think they are reflecting on the success of Disney Springs.

Which isn’t inherently the worst thing to model, but we need attractions.

There is nothing Disney about Disney Springs anymore, the final straw was the World of Disney re-model. I truly hope they don't aspire any aspects of DS into Epcot.

 

[trainplane3]

That's what it already is.

We can only hope that a significant amount of kiosks around the lagoon won't be necessary once this opens. Imagine being able to eat festival food on something other than a garbage can!

I guess I meant turn it into something interesting. More interesting then what we have now but something that isn't festival related

But I agree, that would be nice. I don't think they'll do that because that would cut a lot of traffic, and thus $$$$ in the stores, in WS.

 

[ChrisFL]

When the park first opened, was there faster ways to get to the east and west side of FW through the Communicore buildings than there was in later years? I'm too young to remember exactly what it all looked like.

 

[TOCPE82]

Nowadays imagineers just design whatever they’re told.

The big decisions come from above them.

That’s what being an artist is like 99% of the time.

They’ll try to make the beer garden as nice as they can, but they don’t have the power to say no to the idea.

This exactly, but I do share the concern that modern Imagineers are more or less hired guns that shift seemlessly back and forth between WDI and Universal Creative. Besides, Rohde, are there any other well-known name Imagineers left?

 

[TOCPE82]

It seems like FW has actually suffered from Moore’s Law. In 1982, a doubling of processing power every 18 months wasn’t such a big deal - doubling a few kb of ram wouldn’t be too noticeable comparing technology. That would mean the replacement schedule for early Communicore tech would be what... 6-8 year cycle?

But now that we’re on the steep end of the exponential growth, the difference in those doublings is huge. Add in that it’s not punctuated, but a curve, and you’re looking at a freshness of most large exhibits of somewhere between 6-12 months. No sponsor nor Disney can sustain that. In essence, the “top of the line” processing that any company or imagineer can throw at an exhibit will be consumer-level common in bare minimum 12 months, and max 2 years?

How long was the World Key Kiosk the “only” deep and meaningful touch screen interaction (barring ATM and transactional) that visitors had?

Tech is moving too fast for a future-themed area to keep up. So they’ve chosen to throw people at the problem - dining, M&G, Festivals. Not how I would have gone, but a viable option. Personally, I’d rather have seen each pavilion transition to an “emotion / spirit” that helps make the “future,” like innovation, creativity, harmony, stewardship... but throwing people at the problem is far more sustainable in the long haul. FestCOT is their solution to Moore’s Law. Not my choice, but still a viable option.

But something like Living with the Land works because it is built around ideas and concepts, not just one piece of technology. Simple tweaks can keep it relevant. There's no reason a pavilion about Imagination can't be relevant, or the ocean.

Communicore / Innoventions was always going to have the Tomorrowland problem. Always. There are creative ways to get around that when you're working with temporary exhibits and sponsors, but it isn't easy.