Is the clock ticking on the Sorcerer Mickey Hat icon at the Studios? YES!

[Animaniac93-98]

None of which has anything to do with the theme of Hollywood Blvd.

But "everyone's opinion is valid", right?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Ignoring issues of theme, just comparing park icons from a visual standpoint highlights how poor the design and choice of the hat is.

 

[Phil12]

None of which has anything to do with the theme of Hollywood Blvd.

The fairy tale castle has nothing to do with the theme of Main Street USA.

 

[Zweiland]

Let me ask you this: do you really feel like you're in a turn of the century American town when you look down Main Street USA and see a huge fairy tale castle?

This is true, but your post ignores the fact that originally there were large trees to visually separate and differentiate the Hub and castle from the rest of MSUSA.

 

[Cesar R M]

But it doesn't fit the theme. It is in a theme park.

Plus what are you saying? It symbolizes that Disney can just control everything in Hollywood without opposition, so they could plant a giant corporate symbol in front of a classic Hollywood landmark? Seems quite dystopian...

It would only fit in the entrance of of Fantasmic IMHO.. I always said it would do a great shadow for the turnpikes of Fantasmic at the studios.(and give space to put screens, fp+ scanners..etc..)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let me ask you this: do you really feel like you're in a turn of the century American town when you look down Main Street USA and see a huge fairy tale castle?

The fairy tale castle has nothing to do with the theme of Main Street USA.

Traditional American towns were typically organized around an important and grand civic structure. In earlier and more religious later communities this was the church. In later communities, especially those built on the railroads this role was filled by the railroad station and more importantly, replacing the church, a government building, often the courthouse, epitomizing the republican ethos. At Main Street, USA romance and fantasy replace republicanism as the anchoring ethos of the community. As such so too the physical manifestation of these ideas, thus we have the fantastic castle of the Magic Kingdom and not the courthouse. This variation, as designed and first implemented, was not as stark as is seen today. The gardens and landscaping of the Central Plaza provided layers of distance between Main Street, USA and the castle (I will even go so far as to say that Cinderella Castle is probably too large and slightly distorts this dynamic). The architecture of the castles is also more romantic and revivalist than Romanesque or Gothic design, providing an image that works in harmony with the Victorian architecture of Main Street, USA,

Hollywood Blvd pulls heavily from Main Street, USA. As the Hollywood That Never Was and Always Will Be the movie palace is a fitting anchor to represent that glamour and impact of motion pictures. The hat is merely a segment from a single film from the era that was a box office disappointment and to this day remains under appreciated.

It would only fit in the entrance of of Fantasmic IMHO.. I always said it would do a great shadow for the turnpikes of Fantasmic at the studios.(and give space to put screens, fp+ scanners..etc..)

The hat would then be on a hill, visible from World Showcase and ruining the wonderful was the Hollywood Tower Hotel blends into the Morocco Pavilion.

 

[Skip]

Let me ask you this: do you really feel like you're in a turn of the century American town when you look down Main Street USA and see a huge fairy tale castle?

You're really about to compare a grand, ornate, beautifully designed castle with a metallic, industrial, bland-as-hell hat? MSUSA was always designed to have the castle at the end... Hollywood Boulevard was not.

Try harder.

 

[aladdin2007]

This is true, but your post ignores the fact that originally there were large trees to visually separate and differentiate the Hub and castle from the rest of MSUSA.

wow this picture shocks and saddens me, they really have massacred that park. unbelievable.

 

[jdmdisney99]

Let me ask you this: do you really feel like you're in a turn of the century American town when you look down Main Street USA and see a huge fairy tale castle?

First, this...

Traditional American towns were typically organized around an important and grand civic structure. In earlier and more religious later communities this was the church. In later communities, especially those built on the railroads this role was filled by the railroad station and more importantly, replacing the church, a government building, often the courthouse, epitomizing the republican ethos. At Main Street, USA romance and fantasy replace republicanism as the anchoring ethos of the community. As such so too the physical manifestation of these ideas, thus we have the fantastic castle of the Magic Kingdom and not the courthouse. This variation, as designed and first implemented, was not as stark as is seen today. The gardens and landscaping of the Central Plaza provided layers of distance between Main Street, USA and the castle (I will even go so far as to say that Cinderella Castle is probably too large and slightly distorts this dynamic). The architecture of the castles is also more romantic and revivalist than Romanesque or Gothic design, providing an image that works in harmony with the Victorian architecture of Main Street, USA,

Hollywood Blvd pulls heavily from Main Street, USA. As the Hollywood That Never Was and Always Will Be the movie palace is a fitting anchor to represent that glamour and impact of motion pictures. The hat is merely a segment from a single film from the era that was a box office disappointment and to this day remains under appreciated.


The hat would then be on a hill, visible from World Showcase and ruining the wonderful was the Hollywood Tower Hotel blends into the Morocco Pavilion.

And to answer your question, yes I do. It is completely different because of layering. The castle is behind Main Street: after it in a different land. This was well noted when there were trees to separate the view. The BAH is put in the middle of the street, in a way that interrupts the theme (in front of the Chinese Theater), not complimenting it (like the castle).

Edit: And since it is my 2,000th post, I shall celebrate with pictures of "classic" hubs...

 

[RedtoGray]

I can't believe people are trying to argue that the castles do not fit in MK or DL because of the theming on Main Street. If the parks were called Main Street Land or Yesteryear Park then maybe it would make sense to have something other than the castle. The parks are based on merging history with fantasy and the future.

The whole plot of HS is that it's the heyday of Hollywood. Last time I checked there wasn't a huge metallic sorcerer's hat in front of Grauman's in Hollywood back then. The hat should be at the All-Star Movies resort and not in HS.

 

[DisneyGentleman]

The clock is ticking, but nobody bothered to set the alarm.

My guess is we will be having this same discussion in 10 years.

When a new park is built, it has a master plan and grand theme. These themes get marginalized as things are added and changed here and there. DHS if now probably the most themeless of Disney theme parks. I prefer to think of it as

Disney's Anything Obliquely Related to Movies Park (and Maybe Even TV)

 

[space42]

Problem is many people (including Disney these days) don't understand the difference between theming and decoration.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Problem is many people (including Disney these days) don't understand the difference between theming and decoration.

And have a very limited view on what defines a "Disney" experience.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Traditional American towns were typically organized around an important and grand civic structure. In earlier and more religious later communities this was the church. In later communities, especially those built on the railroads this role was filled by the railroad station and more importantly, replacing the church, a government building, often the courthouse, epitomizing the republican ethos. At Main Street, USA romance and fantasy replace republicanism as the anchoring ethos of the community. As such so too the physical manifestation of these ideas, thus we have the fantastic castle of the Magic Kingdom and not the courthouse. This variation, as designed and first implemented, was not as stark as is seen today. The gardens and landscaping of the Central Plaza provided layers of distance between Main Street, USA and the castle (I will even go so far as to say that Cinderella Castle is probably too large and slightly distorts this dynamic). The architecture of the castles is also more romantic and revivalist than Romanesque or Gothic design, providing an image that works in harmony with the Victorian architecture of Main Street, USA,

And they even nearly all walk on the sideways! Walt's park was so different from today.


The castle taking the place of the courthouse, or city hall. Not so much the church, one was planned at one point at the end of center street, but discarded.
I had never really thought about it, but at DL the castle has more visual similarity with MS. The same height, not overpowring it. Peculiar, all other lands are more realistic at the MK, but MS and the castle are more so at DL.

I guess that is what you get when you must build the new park. It must be an improved one. You feel you must top yourself. "This time, make the castle truly imposing! 200 feet high!" Subtleties of design get lost by the wish to improve on what is there.
Not that I'm complaining at our massive castle though.

 

[Phil12]

Clearly all the park icons were designed to be very large and seen from various locations throughout each of the parks. If the theme of a particular segment of a park is ruined by the vista of an out of theme area, then nothing works in any of the Disney parks. Why are there steam trains in Tomorrowland? Why is a geodesic globe visible from an area themed to the colonial period?

It's obvious that these icons were designed to be seen from a great distance. It has never bothered me that I can see a huge out of theme fantasy castle from Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Adventureland, Liberty Square and Main Street USA. Each park has an icon.

Another point that was brought up is that the Sorcerer's Hat does not belong to Mickey. That's true. It belonged to the Sorcerer, Yen Sid (and we all know who that is). What could be more appropriate as an icon for DHS than the BAH of The Mousetro himself?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Clearly all the park icons were designed to be very large and seen from various locations throughout each of the parks. If the theme of a particular segment of a park is ruined by the vista of an out of theme area, then nothing works in any of the Disney parks. Why are there steam trains in Tomorrowland? Why is a geodesic globe visible from an area themed to the colonial period?

It's obvious that these icons were designed to be seen from a great distance. It has never bothered me that I can see a huge out of theme fantasy castle from Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Adventureland, Liberty Square and Main Street USA. Each park has an icon.

Another point that was brought up is that the Sorcerer's Hat does not belong to Mickey. That's true. It belonged to the Sorcerer, Yen Sid (and we all know who that is). What could be more appropriate as an icon for DHS than the BAH of The Mousetro himself?

Sleeping Beauty Castle was not designed from throughout the park. Cinderella Castle was and this decision was reversed when the castle was reconsidered for Euro Disneyland (Main Street, USA is mostly replicated from the Magic Kingdom but Le Château de la Belle au Bois Dormant is smaller than Cinderella Castle). It remains to be seen how Storybook Castle will impact Shanghai Disneyland.

Steam trains still exist today, why would they not exist in the future?

The pavilions of World Showcase are not the same thematic experience as the themed lands of other parks. They are cognizant of their role as representations of existing, external places.

Walt was not the single, dominate player of Hollywood's Golden Age. The theme is about Hollywood, not Disney.

 

[Skip]

Clearly all the park icons were designed to be very large and seen from various locations throughout each of the parks. If the theme of a particular segment of a park is ruined by the vista of an out of theme area, then nothing works in any of the Disney parks. Why are there steam trains in Tomorrowland? Why is a geodesic globe visible from an area themed to the colonial period?

It's obvious that these icons were designed to be seen from a great distance. It has never bothered me that I can see a huge out of theme fantasy castle from Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Adventureland, Liberty Square and Main Street USA. Each park has an icon.

Another point that was brought up is that the Sorcerer's Hat does not belong to Mickey. That's true. It belonged to the Sorcerer, Yen Sid (and we all know who that is). What could be more appropriate as an icon for DHS than the BAH of The Mousetro himself?

This is such a laughable stretch. 9 out of 10 people on the street aren't going to know that the sorcerer hat belongs to Yen Sid (not Mickey), or that "Yen Sid" is a reference to Disney. Yen Sid /=/ Walt, by the way, so not sure why you're trying to even force that connection... The fact that you haven't addressed the other arguments several of us have put forth suggests you have no real refutation, which betrays major flaws in your own "argument." Don't try to change the subject when you lose a point, it makes the weakness of what you're trying to say obvious.

I'm pretty sure we're looking a troll, folks, best not to feed it any more.

 

[Phil12]

This is such a laughable stretch. 9 out of 10 people on the street aren't going to know that the sorcerer hat belongs to Yen Sid (not Mickey), or that "Yen Sid" is a reference to Disney. Yen Sid /=/ Walt, by the way, so not sure why you're trying to even force that connection... The fact that you haven't addressed the other arguments several of us have put forth suggests you have no real refutation, which betrays major flaws in your own "argument." Don't try to change the subject when you lose a point, it makes the weakness of what you're trying to say obvious.

I'm pretty sure we're looking a troll, folks, best not to feed it any more.

I have no need to refute your opinions. You are entitled them. On the contrary, I think some valid points have been made in critiquing my viewpoint and I am more than happy to listen and learn about other opinions on the subject. There is really no right or wrong answer as to whether or not the BAH is an appropriate icon for DHS.

I happen to think that the BAH icon is every bit as appropriate as the castle in the MK, the geodesic sphere at EPCOT and the Tree of Life in AK. I'm not sure I understand why you have to resort to personal attacks just because my opinion is not the same as yours.

I think that some people tend to get so connected, concerned and involved in these issues that they become emotionally attached to their viewpoint and lose all objectivity. Different people will sometimes have different ways of looking at things based upon their background, knowledge and experience.

I can appreciate your viewpoint and still not agree with it. If you feel the need to play a game of one-upmanship, then I decline. The BAH is there for reasons I consider to be rather self evident and I don't think that themes or vistas have been compromised as a result of its construction. Dare I say, I think it was an improvement to DHS (formerly Disney/MGM when the icon was built).

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Oh what a day it would be just walking into the park and looking straight ahead to see it being Dismantled..

Or Better Yet....Looking Like this....

 

[G00fyDad]

I have no need to refute your opinions. You are entitled them. On the contrary, I think some valid points have been made in critiquing my viewpoint and I am more than happy to listen and learn about other opinions on the subject. There is really no right or wrong answer as to whether or not the BAH is an appropriate icon for DHS.

I happen to think that the BAH icon is every bit as appropriate as the castle in the MK, the geodesic sphere at EPCOT and the Tree of Life in AK. I'm not sure I understand why you have to resort to personal attacks just because my opinion is not the same as yours.

I think that some people tend to get so connected, concerned and involved in these issues that they become emotionally attached to their viewpoint and lose all objectivity. Different people will sometimes have different ways of looking at things based upon their background, knowledge and experience.

I can appreciate your viewpoint and still not agree with it. If you feel the need to play a game of one-upmanship, then I decline. The BAH is there for reasons I consider to be rather self evident and I don't think that themes or vistas have been compromised as a result of its construction. Dare I say, I think it was an improvement to DHS (formerly Disney/MGM when the icon was built).

I seem to remember reading a post here from a respected and knowledgeable member that the BAH was seen as something of a mistake by Disney and that it would eventually be taken down. If that is true then not only does the majority of Disney fans disagree with you, but Disney brass disagrees too. The park had its icon. The water tower. It was just poorly placed. Even the Chinese Theater was a great icon. A gaudy monstrosity was not needed.