Is our nostalgia justified? Or do we look at the past with rose coloured glasses?

[Walt Disney1955]

Just a question. We all love Disney here and there are a lot of threads about the past attractions now defunct. While we all fantasize about das gone by from time to time, my question is do you feel it's justified at WDW or is our memory clouded? For example:

Mr Toad's Wild Ride - No longer at Magic Kingdom but at Disneyland. Pooh took it's place after 1999 or so. Did we all like that ride so much, or had we been asked in 1991 about Mr. Toad would we have liked the idea of Pooh replacing it?

20,000 Leagues - This is a ride I wish they never got rid of. Is it fond memories that are clouded or was this really a great ride?

These are just examples. But a person that prefered Magic Kingdom the way it was in 1975, or 1980 or 1991 would they be looking at the past with rose coloured glasses and not be able to see how things improved or are they right in their assessment? Same for Epcot which has gone through some changes. Was Horizons as good as we remember?

This goes for anything to do with the parks from the past.

 

[muse1983]

Just a question. We all love Disney here and there are a lot of threads about the past attractions now defunct. While we all fantasize about das gone by from time to time, my question is do you feel it's justified at WDW or is our memory clouded? For example:

Mr Toad's Wild Ride - No longer at Magic Kingdom but at Disneyland. Pooh took it's place after 1999 or so. Did we all like that ride so much, or had we been asked in 1991 about Mr. Toad would we have liked the idea of Pooh replacing it?

20,000 Leagues - This is a ride I wish they never got rid of. Is it fond memories that are clouded or was this really a great ride?

These are just examples. But a person that prefered Magic Kingdom the way it was in 1975, or 1980 or 1991 would they be looking at the past with rose coloured glasses and not be able to see how things improved or are they right in their assessment? Same for Epcot which has gone through some changes. Was Horizons as good as we remember?

This goes for anything to do with the parks from the past.

In all honesty, I never found 20,000 Leagues to be much of a ride to begin with and really wasn't all that affected when it left. The same can't be said for Horizons, I miss it dearly.

I sense this will be at least a 10 page thread :lol:

 

[Krack]

It's justified.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Nostalgia affects emotions in every aspect of life. However, I never really find myself longing for things from older days of Disney theme parks. I think that new technology and innovation make replacing rides a necessity. Walt was the first one to say that he didn't want his parks to become a museum and that he wanted them to change over time.

 

[MadMax11]

The removal of Horizons was the most disappointing to me. That's primarily because that ride embodied what EPCOT was all about. It's closure seemed nonsensical to me. Things are certainly subject to change...but that was a poor choice.

 

[wolf359]

Nostalgia is a funny thing, and it gets even funnier when it's applied to Disney parks.

I don't think a ride has to be objectively great in order for it to be special enough to have created fond memories, or to be disappointed it is now gone. So the longing for past attractions doesn't really have to live up to any sort of standard of greatness to justify missing it, it's enough that you miss it "just because."

But on the flip side to that, it really doesn't matter how justified the removal of a personally beloved attraction is either, because if it's gone, it's gone.

 

[wm49rs]

I'm sure every person thinks their individual nostalgia is justified. It's only when someone else starts discussing theirs that the issues arise.....

 

[Dave Disney]

The nostalgia is definitely based on personality. I am nostalgic by nature and crave a more traditional and classic experience. I miss those classic attractions because to me they embodied ideas that were Walts own! And getting rid of Horizons was a huge mistake especially when you consider the replacement. But again these are all my own opinions and I know there others that don't agree because they want the newest most advanced attractions possible.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

Good question. This is one that has caused a lot of hurt feelings for me as well. I know people that each time DH and I talk about our trip and what we've done with DS, our experience will never compare to Disney World in its best days. I'm not sure what the best days are, but they are certainly not now. Sometimes nostalgia becomes so strong that it blinds you to what is good now. I think a certain amount is necessary to hold Disney accountable. However, when it starts taking away from your experience or gives you such an attitude that you put others down and try to take away from their experience, nostalgia is bad.

 

[forevermickey]

As DisneyInsider stated, Walt wanted his parks to keep evolving and not become stagnant. That being said everyone has a fav. attraction based on each persons memories and personality so this is def. a topic that has no right answer. I think it is more difficult for those of us that are Huge WDW buffs when an attraction that was an original is taken down or changed especially in a non-traditional way (example Tiki Birds) because it feels a piece of the WDW is being taken away from what makes WDW; that's where Walt would probably say we need to keep making things current based on his philosophy. Epcot changes are so hard for me because I feel they took the heart and meaning of Epcot out of Epcot, I wished they could of added those new attractions instead of using them as replacements. Great Topic

 

[Texas84]

For me, Disney Parks are an escape back to my childhood days. When something is removed you're taking part of that away. That's all.

 

[wolf359]

Ah, yes, Walt Disney.

The problem with bringing Walt into the discussion is that he didn't know what the parks would become or how attached people would become for them.

He was a nostalgic man, no doubt. But because he didn't live with Disneyland for very long I'm sure the thought of people becoming nostalgic for Disneyland itself never crossed his mind.

Additionally, Walt opened a Disneyland he wasn't completely satisfied with, and he spent all of those first ten years making improvements to correct the problems and add attractions as new ideas and new money came along.

So when you consider Walt's comments about not wanting Disneyland to become a museum it is important to remember his comments were about a park that was nowhere near finished, and a place he most likely only saw as not quite living up to his dreams.

But regardless of whether or not the park (or those that came afterward) lived up to his dreams, they very much became a part of our dreams and memories. Perhaps if Walt had lived long enough, he would have learned what he built had become important, and perhaps felt differently about letting the parks become a museum.

 

[loveofamouse]

Personally, I think you're right OP, in some ways. Some rides, when we look back OBJECTIVELY and UNBIASED, weren't that great and, if they were installed today, we'd be like WTH, Disney. But, because of the memories some have attached to them, they strongly miss them. Does it mean they are wrong to miss them? No. Sometimes, it's kinda like a bad break up. When a bf/gf first break up, the dumpee (cause we feel like dumpees when they rip rides from our hearts) wants to cling to the relationship and talk of how great it was. Really, though, it wasn't directly the other person they miss. It was the feelings from the relationship that they miss


Toad Ride- Honestly, I only have 1 memory of this ride. I don't rremember much of it from my childhood and I rode it right before it was removed. I enjoyed the ride, but pooh isn't a horrible replacement.

Journey Imagination- I have NO memory of this ride, as a child. I like it the way it is now. I watched a ridethrough on youtube of the old version. Honestly, I found it extremely boring. That's my opinion *dodging thrown rotten food*

Horizons- No memory of it so I don't miss it.

Of all of the attractions removed, Alien Encounter is the one I long for. I thought it was fun and thrilling and loved taking newbies on it. Mainly, I miss it cause it was replaced with crap.

 

[forevermickey]

Ah, yes, Walt Disney.

The problem with bringing Walt into the discussion is that he didn't know what the parks would become or how attached people would become for them.

He was a nostalgic man, no doubt. But because he didn't live with Disneyland for very long I'm sure the thought of people becoming nostalgic for Disneyland itself never crossed his mind.

Additionally, Walt opened a Disneyland he wasn't completely satisfied with, and he spent all of those first ten years making improvements to correct the problems and add attractions as new ideas and new money came along.

So when you consider Walt's comments about not wanting Disneyland to become a museum it is important to remember his comments were about a park that was nowhere near finished, and a place he most likely only saw as not quite living up to his dreams.

But regardless of whether or not the park (or those that came afterward) lived up to his dreams, they very much became a part of our dreams and memories. Perhaps if Walt had lived long enough, he would have learned what he built had become important, and perhaps felt differently about letting the parks become a museum.

It is so hard to know exactly what Walt would have chosen to do in any case, I guess his brother or wife would know better than anyone. I know he said the parks would never be finished which would mean new attractions but I read he always seemed to be dissatisfied and wanted to make current things better to the best of his ability and that leads me to think he would want to make current attractions up to date and be the best they could/can be. But again we could all debate what we personally think based of what we have learned about Walt what he would choose to do:veryconfu

 

[rct247]

Everyone will have fond memories of attractions from the past and yes they will be viewed with rose colored glasses unless you had a bad memories of an attraction in which your view will still be rose colored but toward the negative.

I think it also depends on the attraction/memory. The true test of this my be Snow White's Scary Adventures or Mickey and Minnie's Houses in Toontown. They are about to leave us. If I recall most people will be sad to see them go, but for the most part, not too many people seem to have a big emotional tie to Snow White's Scary Adventures (besides maybe their first attraction they remember as a kid or something). Mickey and Minnie's houses may have more emotional tie, but many people will point out that the crowds in Toontown Fair or that it wasn't as good as Disneyland, etc.

Attractions like Horizons, Alien Encounter, or Kitchen Kaberet are all favorites for nostalgia because they were either done well, invoked a big emotion from you, or contain something very memorable such as a chorus line like "veggie fruit fruit". There are other attractions though that I would argue that people are looking through rose-colored glasses. World of Motion to Test Track. Sure World of Motion was a great little attraction, but Test Track is innovative and also delivers the principles of transportation in an Epcot style. It offers it in a thrill setting that more guests prefer these days. It used new technology and delivered the learning in more than a history book (no matter if it was comical) way. I don't think it is justified in that sense.

While I know I will reach opposition and difference of opinion with these, but here is an incomplete list of attractions that can be justified and some that are just rose-colored:

-The Enchanted Tiki Room (prior to new management) -- Justified
-Pirates of the Caribbean (prior to Jack Sparrow) -- Rose-Colored
-Mickey Mouse Revue -- Rose-Colored
-20,000 Leagues Under the Sea -- Borderline
-Mr. Toad's Wild Ride - Justified
-Snow White's Scary Adventures -- Rose-Colored
-Alien Encounter -- Justified
-Timekeeper -- Borderline
-If You Had Wings/Dreamflight -- Rose-colored
-Space Mountain (prior to audio) -- Rose-colored
-Mission to Moon/ Mission to Mars -- Rose-colored
-Universe of Energy (prior to Ellen) -- Rose -colored
-Body Wars -- Rose-colored
-Cranium Command -- Borderline
-Horizons -- Justified
-World of Motion -- Rose-colored
-Journey into Imagination (with Dreamfinder) --Justified
-The Living Seas (prior to Nemo) -- Rose-colored
-Spaceship Earth (prior to interactive screens) -- Rose-colored
-Kitchen Kaberet/Food Rocks -- Borderline
-Studio Backlot Tour (the original) -- Justified
-Magic of Disney Animation Tour (with animators) -- Justified
-Superstar Television -- Rose-colored
-Monster Sound Show -- Rose-colored

Now, before you shout out your disagreement, think about the changes or what these attractions were like. Are they gone now for a reason? Was the technology outdated by the end of its run, what was the popularity or the wait times? Would it hold up to today's audiences? If it was just an attraction change, has it enhanced the experience or brought in something guests can connect with better? Has another attraction or experience come along that is similar or delivers a similar message in a better way? What memories make it justified? What memories make it rose-colored? Has the world changed since these attractions were around? Would the family of today have the same emotional experiences you would or would they yern for what is currently available?

That's what I am getting at. Superstar Television was fun, but American Idol does the same job. The interactive elements in Spaceship Earth left our decent tunnel empty, but the result was an interactive experience that allowed for guests to become more involved in their future vision. You have to look at things as un-biased as possible. You don't have to forget your fond memories, but maybe it is good to look at whether your nostalgia is justified enough.

 

[ABigBrassBand]

The removal of Horizons was the most disappointing to me. That's primarily because that ride embodied what EPCOT was all about. It's closure seemed nonsensical to me. Things are certainly subject to change...but that was a poor choice.

Exactly. I'm up for change, but this was one of the rides that it just didn't make sense to remove in a park so centered around the improvement and inspiration of the future. :shrug:

 

[WDW_Emily]

Well for Snow white's scary adventures, people complained about that ride all the time. saying that it was too scary for little kids but not thrilling enough for older ones. Also people saying it needs work to it. Well now it's going away for good and many people are upset

Same goes for toontown.

 

[quirkle]

The only ride I would want back is Horizons - it embodied EPCOT and could have been updated.

JII is just so hard to swallow - no line on New Years Eve??? OP on another thread was saying how they used to spend hours in it as a kid - I remember that - my parents would tell us one time on the ride and then we would sneak into the interactive section over and over.

Honey I shrunk the kids scared the bejesus out of me!

Mr Toads was another favorite because of the train scene - I remember holding onto my dad and screaming that Disney was going to kill me (I was 3)

swsa - scared my kids but then they were like wait - this is all fake!! LOL

20,000 leagues was also a favorite but that is a rose colored variety - I just remeber sitting next to my mom and looking out the porthole.

I went to WDW my first time when I was 3 (1976) and I remember just feeling like I was in a fantasy world and was happy just to see Cinderella Castle. In the press conference they talk about kids wanting to be with their families and I can tell you my memories as a child are not specifically of the ride but it was sitting with my parents on a ride - my mom going on the tea cups over and over and now my kids doing the same thing.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Heck, I never SAW Horizons and I miss it.

I like rct247's test of whether the replacement or update makes some attempt to preserve the message of the original. By that standard, M:S is an almost embarassing failure. It's a neat enough idea, but as a replacement for a ride that tied together everything the theme park you were in (at least the Future World half) was all about? It never had a chance of living up.

At least World of Motion was replaced with something that roughly touched on the same idea. Epcot needs a "here's what we're trying to say" attraction again.

 

[ABigBrassBand]

Heck, I never SAW Horizons and I miss it.

I like rct247's test of whether the replacement or update makes some attempt to preserve the message of the original. By that standard, M:S is an almost embarassing failure. It's a neat enough idea, but as a replacement for a ride that tied together everything the theme park you were in (at least the Future World half) was all about? It never had a chance of living up.

At least World of Motion was replaced with something that roughly touched on the same idea. Epcot needs a "here's what we're trying to say" attraction again.

To be honest, the one pavilion Epcot NEEDED besides Horizons was a space one--nothing really sums up Epcot like a pavilion based on space, which is why I'm glad to see that M:S is there and done well.

Now, I could say other things about TT :fork: