englanddg
One Little Spark...
Old thread, but...I'd forgotten about it. Glancing through it reminded me...it was a heck of a lot of fun!
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Is entitlement becoming an issue?
- Thread starter NowInc
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englanddg
One Little Spark...
I know you are making a point and all, and imma let you finish, but she had a "talent"....it went viral.
I see what you did there and all, but I have to say ... Was that a talent or just a function?
ItlngrlBella
Well-Known Member
@CaptainAmerica
I'm not sure how I missed your post yesterday and I too am not one to quote HuffPo (I can't believe I'm saying this about them...) but... THAT. IS. SPOT-ON. GENIUS!
Thanks for posting that.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Ok, I have a few toss ins to the convo, having caught up.
First, I don't think relating this to Make a Wish is valid. Those are planned in advance.
Second, I don't think that you all understand (not to sound conspiratorial) how much Disney pays attention to social media. As has been pointed out, when something is trending, or has a lot of views, Disney views this as organic marketing.
And...they should. It's smart for them to do it. It plays to saps like me that watch videos from various sources which have been mentioned and smile and think of my own experiences at Disney (which in turn makes me think about spending more money on a Disney trip).
So, it works.
Do these encounters take away from the average experience at Disney? Not in the least. Well, with the one exception regarding the fact that everyone seems to want to take a GoPro and selfie stick and make their own version of.
But, as someone who HAS staged and planned a video for a Disney trip...this one...I feel I can chime in.
I chose the song in advance. I even mapped out the scenes and shots I needed in my head (and posted them on another Disney forum...down to the second and with notes about how to handle shot angles and transitions)
I didn't get all the shots I wanted, and the final video turned out far different than I originally planned, but, I am not ashamed to say I did that. It was fun. Like a little project to work on. I never expected it to go viral (and it didn't). It was more that I thought it would be fun for us to do together.
The kiddo, however, at times, disagreed...and there was more than once where I had to ask her to "dance" in exchange for something...as she was hot, tired, or something. Kids don't always understand WHAT you are trying to do, and in that respect I was not being "Daddy", I was being "Director"...
In fact, you'll see that edited into the video as the times she "attacks" the camera.
And I wholly admit it. For example, she got an Ice Cream in exchange for dancing in front of the EPCOT fountain. (she would have gotten an Ice Cream anyhow, but...)
SHE doesn't remember that, but I do, and it's one of the self-aware smiles I have whenever I watch that video, because now she thinks it was all fun, she doesn't remember how much she whined about that one particular shot (there is footage of me doing it twice she shot of me that she doesn't remember...cause that was the original deal...I do it, she does it)...
Most of my videos are organic (meaning just stuff I capture on our trip and edit together), and this was also one. But, frankly, we should all remember the Wolf's (who ushered this trend in, I'd say)...
They made this video first...
But what got the ball rolling was THIS video....
They were the first of the "Disney Trip videos" to get "noticed" enough by Disney that they were even included in a nighttime show.
THAT is where it all started. (not that I blame the Wolfs, their videos are fantastic, and really there is no "blame" to be had...it's just Disney being smart with their online marketing).
The Wolfs, like many of us, had such a blast that they went back...quickly. And probably enjoyed their video as much as the rest of the world did...so this time, they went back with a better plan for their next one.
And, in 20 years, they'll love watching these videos just as I will love watching the video of my kiddo and me enjoying our trip. And that is the key.
This isn't entitlement. But, one should be careful about classifying what is "good" or "bad" parenting in this respect.
Is there an entitlement attitude? Sure. It exists, but it has always existed. "WHY didn't I get picked?" My sister had "private back stage" time with a group of costume characters the summer MGM opened because they decided she was cute, and my Dad got that all on his BetaCam at the time.
The offering hasn't changed. If they are marketing social media personalities, that's different.
Just leave it at the door. Or should I say...leave your baggage at the train station?
First, I don't think relating this to Make a Wish is valid. Those are planned in advance.
Second, I don't think that you all understand (not to sound conspiratorial) how much Disney pays attention to social media. As has been pointed out, when something is trending, or has a lot of views, Disney views this as organic marketing.
And...they should. It's smart for them to do it. It plays to saps like me that watch videos from various sources which have been mentioned and smile and think of my own experiences at Disney (which in turn makes me think about spending more money on a Disney trip).
So, it works.
Do these encounters take away from the average experience at Disney? Not in the least. Well, with the one exception regarding the fact that everyone seems to want to take a GoPro and selfie stick and make their own version of.
But, as someone who HAS staged and planned a video for a Disney trip...this one...I feel I can chime in.
I chose the song in advance. I even mapped out the scenes and shots I needed in my head (and posted them on another Disney forum...down to the second and with notes about how to handle shot angles and transitions)
I didn't get all the shots I wanted, and the final video turned out far different than I originally planned, but, I am not ashamed to say I did that. It was fun. Like a little project to work on. I never expected it to go viral (and it didn't). It was more that I thought it would be fun for us to do together.
The kiddo, however, at times, disagreed...and there was more than once where I had to ask her to "dance" in exchange for something...as she was hot, tired, or something. Kids don't always understand WHAT you are trying to do, and in that respect I was not being "Daddy", I was being "Director"...
In fact, you'll see that edited into the video as the times she "attacks" the camera.
And I wholly admit it. For example, she got an Ice Cream in exchange for dancing in front of the EPCOT fountain. (she would have gotten an Ice Cream anyhow, but...)
SHE doesn't remember that, but I do, and it's one of the self-aware smiles I have whenever I watch that video, because now she thinks it was all fun, she doesn't remember how much she whined about that one particular shot (there is footage of me doing it twice she shot of me that she doesn't remember...cause that was the original deal...I do it, she does it)...
Most of my videos are organic (meaning just stuff I capture on our trip and edit together), and this was also one. But, frankly, we should all remember the Wolf's (who ushered this trend in, I'd say)...
They made this video first...
But what got the ball rolling was THIS video....
They were the first of the "Disney Trip videos" to get "noticed" enough by Disney that they were even included in a nighttime show.
THAT is where it all started. (not that I blame the Wolfs, their videos are fantastic, and really there is no "blame" to be had...it's just Disney being smart with their online marketing).
The Wolfs, like many of us, had such a blast that they went back...quickly. And probably enjoyed their video as much as the rest of the world did...so this time, they went back with a better plan for their next one.
And, in 20 years, they'll love watching these videos just as I will love watching the video of my kiddo and me enjoying our trip. And that is the key.
This isn't entitlement. But, one should be careful about classifying what is "good" or "bad" parenting in this respect.
Is there an entitlement attitude? Sure. It exists, but it has always existed. "WHY didn't I get picked?" My sister had "private back stage" time with a group of costume characters the summer MGM opened because they decided she was cute, and my Dad got that all on his BetaCam at the time.
The offering hasn't changed. If they are marketing social media personalities, that's different.
Just leave it at the door. Or should I say...leave your baggage at the train station?
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ItlngrlBella
Well-Known Member
@englanddg
^^^ that was awesome and I have to admit, I was a little verklempt.
Your kids and their kids someday will have a blast watching that.
...but what you don't have a full on media team and a posse of rabid people shooing away families and lying about M&G's in certain areas so you can have that M&G to yourselves.
You conducted yourself professionally and respectfully regarding the other families around you - therein lies the difference.
^^^ that was awesome and I have to admit, I was a little verklempt.
Your kids and their kids someday will have a blast watching that.
...but what you don't have a full on media team and a posse of rabid people shooing away families and lying about M&G's in certain areas so you can have that M&G to yourselves.
You conducted yourself professionally and respectfully regarding the other families around you - therein lies the difference.
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GwrChurchward
New Member
To say that dressing up says you feel entitled is completely untrue. I am a 15 year old slightly aspergic jurassic park (and disney and trains) nerd. The next time I go to universal studios islands of adventure, I am going to dress up as a jurassic park scien tist complete with a lab coat which has an ingen patch on the sleeve and a Jurassic Park patch which is acuratrate to the film underneath the left pocket. I will wear my jurassic park t-shirt and my hand made id tag, and I will carry around a jurassic park clipboard which will have 20 pages of hand typed paperwork and last but not least my handbuilt embryo canister. The entire time I will be in character but am I expecting special treatment, no. just to say dressing up does not mean entitlement but to add that mom is a horrible person for the values she is raising her child on.
Quickly I apologize for the spelling and grammar as I am typing this on my tablet which is to say the least difficult. The rant is over and please don't disregard this post and the point I m trying to make because of these two reasons 1 this my first post.2 I am a menber of generation z.
Rant Is officially ended.
Quickly I apologize for the spelling and grammar as I am typing this on my tablet which is to say the least difficult. The rant is over and please don't disregard this post and the point I m trying to make because of these two reasons 1 this my first post.2 I am a menber of generation z.
Rant Is officially ended.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Again...
This isn't about special magic being given RANDOMLY to guests. That part is awesome and should happen often.
The concern I'm bringing to light is over the fact that certain guests (locals) getting above and beyond treatment on every visit, sometimes negatively impacting other guests experiences. Repeatedly, the same people.
This isn't about special magic being given RANDOMLY to guests. That part is awesome and should happen often.
The concern I'm bringing to light is over the fact that certain guests (locals) getting above and beyond treatment on every visit, sometimes negatively impacting other guests experiences. Repeatedly, the same people.
CaptainAmerica
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone here would have a problem with what you're doing (unless your outfit looks so realistic that it confuses other guests into thinking you're a cast member, but that's a separate issue). The problem would be if you used your cosplay as a way to drum up hundreds of thousands of social media followers and then used that influence to get Universal Studios to give you special perks at the expense of other guests.
J_Carioca
Well-Known Member
The difference is that everyone in the park has paid the same price to get in so no guests should get preferential treatment. Note that preferential is not the same thing as different. Everyone has a unique experience. But no one should get PREFERENTIAL treatment (i.e. inside information, special treatment, etc...) because they are in effect giving Disney free advertising.
J_Carioca
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you said except for this: "CMs pay attention to people that stand out. The buttons, costumes, or even doing something for another guest that gets noticed". Why should guests of the park have to dress up or draw attention to themselves? The treatment you receive from CMs should not depend on what you're wearing or whether you're an instagram celeb. Can't you just be a normal kid or adult visiting the park in shorts and a t-shirt and be treated the same way as someone in a costume?
jw24
Well-Known Member
First off, I'm surprised that no one has used the term, "sour grapes" in this thread because I could have sworn someone would have thrown that term at some point in this topic.
But anyway, I greatly appreciate and respect the viewpoints. As I stated earlier, I will not discredit Tommy as a human being. And I won't discredit his loving, supporting family, as well. If someone were to offer a private meet and greet backstage after a show or a parade, we would pounce on people who turned down the offer. I have no problems with CMs giving magical moments but it should only once or twice per family or per party. Anything more two is only warranted if every individual, distinctive magical moment is initiated by a different individual CM. The problem I have is when one CM goes out of his or her way and gives one family or party tons of perks at the expense of doing his or her job properly. I think what I'm trying to say is that if I were a bartender and I was chitchatting and giving all my friends or a regular customer free drinks or free food more than once and then told the general manager or owner I want to change my shifts so that I get to see my friends or a particular regular more often in the bar on the job, I would be not allowed to and I would certainly be fired without hesitation. If you want to hang out and treat your friends, it's fine but don't do it during your own work hours when you have to do your job. The reason I brought the example of Allie the CM during Tommy's 2013 trip was that it didn't take a genius to figure out that Allie was a friend of Jasmine and Pocahontas so to speak. I mean, you almost never see the same CM more than once a typical Disney vacation. You just don't. I had to largely assume she was the one who set up these arrangements like the Fantasmic meet and greet, the opportunity for a photoshoot on the Morocco pavilion stage and spending a large amount of time with Tommy during Character Palooza not once but twice. It might seem like a favor and a kind thing to do but in my book, it's unprofessional and it's a case of pure favoritism. I get it that people plays favorites in life all the time. Bosses, teachers, parents, employers and sports coaches to name a few. But they don't truly realize how much permanent damage they've caused with other people who always got the short end of the stick or how quickly a bridge was burned until it's too late. It stings with people for life in some cases. So either change for the better and do everything to ensure that no one is more or less important than another or continue hurting people for life.
But I will say this, I get it that certain people may require more time with characters like the Make-A-Wish children. I get it that people who wear a character dress, a button or even Disneybound will get more attention than others in meet and greets. And I do think to an extent, it makes it easier for a character performer to start the interaction with a good talking point like the dress, button or outfit. What I think needs to be drilled in people's skulls is that regardless of what you wear, you can't expect a great meet and greet, you have to be proactive and make it happen with your compliments and insightful questions. I understand for younger children, however, they aren't exactly proactive in meet and greets compared to other guests which is why the character performer may have to be the one who drives the conversation so to speak. But when you get older, and I've learned this myself by the way, you'll hopefully understand that you need play a part in making the meet and greet memorable. If you don't express the passion, interest and love for the character, you may not get a passionate and sincere interaction in return. I mean, I would've never experienced a great meet and greet with Belle if I didn't tell her she was my favorite Disney heroine!
All I can really say at this point is that I think I am torn as to what am I supposed to believe or think.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
It is all about money. That is all it is ever about in big corporate America (since the early 80's). Money. Money money money. Disney grants VIP treatment on those that make them more money than others. These social media stars = money. Just because it is indirect, and not directly out of a wallet doesn't mean it is not money.
Arguing that a social media star should not get special attention is like arguing a person that pays double in lodging shouldn't get better lodging.
All of us can be VIPs with money. Money because of wallets. Money because of fame. Whatever or however you get money to Disney, you are more of a VIP than those who give less.
To think for a minute that you are as valuable to Disney as a person that gives more money to them is deluded thinking in a capitalistic society.
It's not fair?!? Hahaha,, oh boy howdy,, the United States society is all about economic/wealth inequality.
As it should be? (I can debate this from either view so meh, no need to continue)
Arguing that a social media star should not get special attention is like arguing a person that pays double in lodging shouldn't get better lodging.
All of us can be VIPs with money. Money because of wallets. Money because of fame. Whatever or however you get money to Disney, you are more of a VIP than those who give less.
To think for a minute that you are as valuable to Disney as a person that gives more money to them is deluded thinking in a capitalistic society.
It's not fair?!? Hahaha,, oh boy howdy,, the United States society is all about economic/wealth inequality.
As it should be? (I can debate this from either view so meh, no need to continue)
Obi
Well-Known Member
Just want to say thanks to the messages I have been getting regarding this issue, most from users whom are afraid to speak of it on social media due to the hate they would receive by the followers of these accounts (and I have encouraged all of them to speak publicly in order to bring this to the attention it deserves). Apparently this isn't something that only I have noticed. Recently, more and more adults have been getting aggressive towards other guests due to their personal views on how they are "better" than other "normal" guests in the parks.
One example I heard recently involved a grown lady with 60k Facebook (almost 30k instagram, both of which I am not linking to avoid giving her more attention) followers getting HUGS from parade performers..DURING the parade, which is a huge sign of "bad show" in my opinion. Apparently she was also very rude to all other guests around her (which I heard from two SEPARATE people about the same account). On that same user account, she is meeting characters that no one else gets to meet (again, on the bridge during dream along with mickey which is CLOSED to everybody immediately before, during, and after the show). Another showcases her getting a personal tour of cinderella castle by the character herself, while a long line of other guests just stand and watch and aren't allowed to proceed. Lots and lots of pictures on the account exhibit preferential treatment given to her..and it seems a big reason as to WHY this happens has been brought to my attention:
Cast members are themselves trying to get these large amounts of followers. There are a lot of them who go out of their way to get mentioned on these self proclaimed "celebs" in order to gain the same status themselves (as they are often tagged in the photos).
I guess once again I need to remind people that this isn't about random magic given to guests..RANDOMLY. The issue (which many others even on this thread have agreed to) is with a constant above and beyond treatment given at the EXPENSE OF OTHERS (sometimes in extremely rude ways), and its spiraling out of control.
One example I heard recently involved a grown lady with 60k Facebook (almost 30k instagram, both of which I am not linking to avoid giving her more attention) followers getting HUGS from parade performers..DURING the parade, which is a huge sign of "bad show" in my opinion. Apparently she was also very rude to all other guests around her (which I heard from two SEPARATE people about the same account). On that same user account, she is meeting characters that no one else gets to meet (again, on the bridge during dream along with mickey which is CLOSED to everybody immediately before, during, and after the show). Another showcases her getting a personal tour of cinderella castle by the character herself, while a long line of other guests just stand and watch and aren't allowed to proceed. Lots and lots of pictures on the account exhibit preferential treatment given to her..and it seems a big reason as to WHY this happens has been brought to my attention:
Cast members are themselves trying to get these large amounts of followers. There are a lot of them who go out of their way to get mentioned on these self proclaimed "celebs" in order to gain the same status themselves (as they are often tagged in the photos).
I guess once again I need to remind people that this isn't about random magic given to guests..RANDOMLY. The issue (which many others even on this thread have agreed to) is with a constant above and beyond treatment given at the EXPENSE OF OTHERS (sometimes in extremely rude ways), and its spiraling out of control.
ItlngrlBella
Well-Known Member
@NowInc: At first I had a different view on the whole thing but after reading first hand accounts of blantant rudeness, full blown media posses, and then seeing some of these accounts of said "personalities," beyond Lane and Tommy, (people I HOPE have jobs or are at least in school - because they seem to be living at WDW) - I have a whole new view on the matter. Thanks for bringing it up. My undergrad is in mass communications/PR and psychology so all of this is pretty fascinating to me.
216bruce
Well-Known Member
Whatever happened to just going to the parks, enjoying yourself and not worrying so much about everyone else? It seems to me that if you worry less, you'll enjoy more. If you look hard enough, you'll always find fault and inequality. Even if there's a hundred of these 'priveleged, social media superstars' at WDW on any given day, the odds of what they are doing or getting interfering with your day are pretty slim. And if they do a little bit, so what? If your relationship with your child is based solely on then getting 'the best' of everything and them getting upset if they don't, then the problem isn't 'the entitled ones'.
"Disney is supposed to be EQUAL experience for the guest..." Well sorry to burst your bubble but that just isn't so. Disney pretty much says that it isn't so when they started doing the special VIP tours where you basically pay big bucks to avoid lines or even bothering with fastpasses... Do you have a problem with the VIP tours too?
So she gets some perks from having her kid dressed up. I experienced the same type of thing a few years ago when one of my kids insisted on going all decked out like a miniature version of Elizabeth Swan... And horror of horrors a CM even took her to bypass a line for a ride... And if you ever notice the kids that are most likely to be picked for Jedi Training and things like that it tends to be the ones that are decked out in costumes... If you are so bummed out by it why not invest in a costume of your own... But I don't see it as entitlement. If anything Disney is using her as much as she is using them...
In fact Disney is getting a much better deal out of it than the woman, she puts hours into sewing a costume and Disney gives her a little extra attention to get lots of publicity. Would you rather Disney ignore the chance at free publicity and just jacked the ticket prices up more to pay for all publicity instead?
