Is Carousel of Progress closing?

[Skyway]

if they just updated the last scene every so often to reflect the near or far future i feel the attraction would be fine.

No it wouldn't.

And that's the problem with CoP.

The attraction "Walt built" made sense in the 1960's. It showed progress of home appliances in the course of a single lifetime. A 70-year-old sitting the original show would likely recall each of the 4 eras (1900s, 20's, 40's, and 60's).

If they were to simply keep updating the final scene, the jump between the 1940's and today would be larger than the 60 year span covered by the entire original attraction.

To fix CoP would require completely gutting and rewriting the show. Maybe 1900's, 40's, 80's, and today. Or even 50's, 70's, 90's, and today (which would be the same jumps as Walt's original)

But by the time you've done that, you've really gutted Walt's touch on it. So then what's the point of saving it?

If an imagineer were to say "let's do a brand new animatronic show showcasing the last 60 years of kitchen appliance history!" it would be met with a collective yawn from both park management and probably most guests.

It's not 1960s anymore. There are no longer Worlds Fairs with big corporations willing to pony up the cash to develop exhibits that will only be seen by a small fraction of an Internet Age audience. And if not for GE's request to make an "advertisement", I doubt Walt would have dreamed up CoP and built it for his theme park audience, either.

That means CoP is a museum piece. And I'm not sure the MK is still the best place for it. Ship the sets and AA's out to the Disney Family Museum and be done with it.

For those who say its killing Walt's legacy, every aspect of MK and DL's design is a living tribute to Walt's legacy. Not to mention movies, characters, and songs. Face it, the dude has a living legacy.

The only significance of CoP in FL is that its the only attraction Walt personally worked on. If you swap out some of WDW's 1971 IASW dolls with the Worlds Fair original dolls, you are in the exact same position. If you want to see more of Walt's personal touch than that, go to DL.

And please stop with the crazy "move it to Epcot". Why would ANYONE spend money to move and rebuild attraction that is not worthy in its current location? Moving CBJ or Tiki Room to Animal Kingdom would not make those any more beloved or popular. Moving CoP wouldn't, either. It's a fanboi pipe dream with no basis in common sense.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

No it wouldn't.

And that's the problem with CoP.

The attraction "Walt built" made sense in the 1960's. It showed progress of home appliances in the course of a single lifetime. A 70-year-old sitting the original show would likely recall each of the 4 eras (1900s, 20's, 40's, and 60's).

If they were to simply keep updating the final scene, the jump between the 1940's and today would be larger than the 60 year span covered by the entire original attraction.

To fix CoP would require completely gutting and rewriting the show. Maybe 1900's, 40's, 80's, and today. Or even 50's, 70's, 90's, and today (which would be the same jumps as Walt's original)

But by the time you've done that, you've really gutted Walt's touch on it. So then what's the point of saving it?

If an imagineer were to say "let's do a brand new animatronic show showcasing the last 60 years of kitchen appliance history!" it would be met with a collective yawn from both park management and probably most guests.

It's not 1960s anymore. There are no longer Worlds Fairs with big corporations willing to pony up the cash to develop exhibits that will only be seen by a small fraction of an Internet Age audience. And if not for GE's request to make an "advertisement", I doubt Walt would have dreamed up CoP and built it for his theme park audience, either.

That means CoP is a museum piece. And I'm not sure the MK is still the best place for it. Ship the sets and AA's out to the Disney Family Museum and be done with it.

For those who say its killing Walt's legacy, every aspect of MK and DL's design is a living tribute to Walt's legacy. Not to mention movies, characters, and songs. Face it, the dude has a living legacy.

The only significance of CoP in FL is that its the only attraction Walt personally worked on. If you swap out some of WDW's 1971 IASW dolls with the Worlds Fair original dolls, you are in the exact same position. If you want to see more of Walt's personal touch than that, go to DL.

And please stop with the crazy "move it to Epcot". Why would ANYONE spend money to move and rebuild attraction that is not worthy in its current location? Moving CBJ or Tiki Room to Animal Kingdom would not make those any more beloved or popular. Moving CoP wouldn't, either. It's a fanboi pipe dream with no basis in common sense.

Great minds think alike. I wrote this on 10/29/2011:

I think the Carousel of Progress is supposed to represent a lifetime of change. If you look at when the show premiered in 1964, flashing back to the turn of the century because there were quite a few people in the audience who actually remembered the times they were showing. It's not "look how far we've come" ("we" as in society); it's more "look how far YOU have come". Now, the 40's/50's scene has about the same distance from the present as the very beginning of the show originally did. It changes the way the audience relates to the show.

To me, the essence of CoP is that in each time period, the dad is amazed at "modern" life and thinks it can't get any better. Of course, along comes the refrigerator, TV, etc. I can't be the only one that does this in real life: I remember thinking, "Wow! Pictures on webpages! That's awesome!" I would love to see a scene where one of the family members is sitting in front of a blocky CRT monitor (soon, kids won't know what those were), totally excited as some image slooowly loads on the screen and depixelates while the audience looks on. Of course, the teenage daughter wants to use the phone and hears that terrible modem sound when she picks up. I'm tellin' ya, this scene writes itself! It's supposed to be something for the audience to reminisce over, not a history lesson. Kids see how backwards their parents were, and parents see how backwards things were when they were little.

My ideal Carousel I think would be: mid-50's, mid-70's, mid-90's, near future.

P.S. For the record, I also thought Youtube was a dumb idea when I first heard about it. Why would people want to huddle around their computer screen to watch user-generated content when they have a TV? It'll never catch on.

P.P.S. There are a good portion of the people who want to return the CoP to its original 1964 version in a Disney theme park. That's crazy! The problem with the 1994 finale is not that it's stuck in 1994; it's stuck in the 1999 that never was. Car phones, bulky virtual reality headsets, laserdiscs, and the like are things that seemed likely at the time, but never caught on. It gives the finale a surreal kinda quality, because none of that stuff ever really happened for the audience. However, tell me that talking oven gag has ever been more topical than now with Siri?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Great minds think alike. I wrote this on 10/29/2011:
Cosmic Commando said: ↑

I think the Carousel of Progress is supposed to represent a lifetime of change. If you look at when the show premiered in 1964, flashing back to the turn of the century because there were quite a few people in the audience who actually remembered the times they were showing. It's not "look how far we've come" ("we" as in society); it's more "look how far YOU have come". Now, the 40's/50's scene has about the same distance from the present as the very beginning of the show originally did. It changes the way the audience relates to the show.​

​

To me, the essence of CoP is that in each time period, the dad is amazed at "modern" life and thinks it can't get any better. Of course, along comes the refrigerator, TV, etc. I can't be the only one that does this in real life: I remember thinking, "Wow! Pictures on webpages! That's awesome!" I would love to see a scene where one of the family members is sitting in front of a blocky CRT monitor (soon, kids won't know what those were), totally excited as some image slooowly loads on the screen and depixelates while the audience looks on. Of course, the teenage daughter wants to use the phone and hears that terrible modem sound when she picks up. I'm tellin' ya, this scene writes itself! It's supposed to be something for the audience to reminisce over, not a history lesson. Kids see how backwards their parents were, and parents see how backwards things were when they were little.​

​

My ideal Carousel I think would be: mid-50's, mid-70's, mid-90's, near future.​

P.S. For the record, I also thought Youtube was a dumb idea when I first heard about it. Why would people want to huddle around their computer screen to watch user-generated content when they have a TV? It'll never catch on.

P.P.S. There are a good portion of the people who want to return the CoP to its original 1964 version in a Disney theme park. That's crazy! The problem with the 1994 finale is not that it's stuck in 1994; it's stuck in the 1999 that never was. Car phones, bulky virtual reality headsets, laserdiscs, and the like are things that seemed likely at the time, but never caught on. It gives the finale a surreal kinda quality, because none of that stuff ever really happened for the audience. However, tell me that talking oven gag has ever been more topical than now with Siri?

Not on this site, but on another I made the statement that any attempt to upgrade to a current ending was futile and unless it changed all the way through, it wouldn't help at all. As someone stated, that would completely defeat the current purpose of it's existence.

Back in the days of it's origin, people were far more confident that they could easily predict the future. Technology was moving forward but at a much slower pace. Following the Moon landing, things took off like (excuse the pun) a rocket. It didn't take long for people to realize that it was futile to even try to know what the future would bring. By they time they got it in place they would find that it was now the past. The important function of CoP now is to document those early days of progress. Show the youth of today and remind the older folks where they came from. I was born in the 40's so everything in the show from that point on was nostalgia for me, everything before that was discovery. I didn't know or have an appreciation of how my parents lived or my grandparents. It was quite an eye opener.

Set a point in time to document the final scene and assume that everything after that is current. There's no need to document that as we are living in it. Yes, make it an interesting, technology updated (new AA's) history and tribute to the man that was able to picture this stuff and make it happen as a creative piece of art.

Things have certainly changed a lot since that show was created and our expectations are almost at the point of silly. Twenty years ago the thought of driving in your car and making a call, hands free to someone was nothing short of science fiction. Today you hear loud, indignant gripping because they happened on a single area that for some reason is not getting the signal and all of a sudden there is anger over the 1% loss of coverage instead of the marvel of the 99% remaining that does work. Crazy! We need a place to show us where we were just a century ago and the increments involved getting to where we are today.

 

[sgtmgd]

As for my vote, I don't think it should close (saw it for the first time on last visit), but I do think that it should be moved to Epcot, either as part of a new pavilion that included Horizons/Horizons 2.0, or into Innoventions.

Epcot would be a great place for this..it needs some refurb...but still entertains me even to this day

 

[KCheatle]

There's another forum in General Discussion "Is there anything Disney could do that would make you not go?" At first thought, I thought No. I'll always go. But, honestly, if they got rid of CoP, I would boycott for awhile. That's too personal to Walt and there is no new attraction, no matter how cool, that could replace the nostalgia of CoP. Honestly, if they did remove it and in its place put a gift shop, I think that would be enough to make me re-think my obsession with WDW.

 

[rct247]

I don't think it is going anywhere anytime soon unless there is a replacement in mind.I just don't know what is going to actually happen with it. Eventually, it's time will come. I'll be very sad when that day comes though. You can probably thank both the historic nature and the TTA for it staying as long as it has though. I don't see a day where it will completely become ruble. There will be some aspect of it preserved. The TTA track has also helped keep it there too. From what I understand, TTA can't receive major modifications to its track or else it would have to become completely ADA compliant. With the TTA track connect along the outer ring of CoP, that may eventualy play a factor.

Here's something to think about though. If Disney simply updated the last scene would everyone be happy with it? Would it honestly be money well spent as well?

I'd actually love to see the attraction completely redone in the same style, but more relavent to today. I agree that the first scene needs to be around 1955 now with each scene progressing 20 to 25 years from that point. Let's see how not only electricity and appliances have changes, but how electronics and computers have changed the home even more as we moved away from the electric age into the digital age. I think a complete overhaul would bring in more attendance to the attraction (may not the park or resort) at least versus just updating the final scene. How would everyone react though? Would the fan community be outragged that such a historic attraction had its original scenes completely ripped out (perhaps preserved for the Smithsonian) and replaced with everything new? Should it stay as a historic tribute or just stay in the spirit of Walt?

The other question is will there ever be day when the attraction becomes too much of a maintenance cost or a libility to run. Most of us know of or have experieced how often guests leave the theater during the show causing shows to be repeated. Will there be a day when the system becomes too old to operate or someone elses actions ruin it for the rest of us?

 

[Yankeesfan5]

I find it cool to see a show that Walt created himself when I go to WDW, as it gives me a feeling of nostalgia. As outdated as it is, this shouldn't close. I don't see what could replace it. Even though Tomorrowland needs something, the Speedway has the real estate to make it happen, unlike CoP.

 

[Adam5897]

The only way I would be fine with this is if it was replaced with something themed to wall•e and moved to Epcot (won't happen) so I hope it stays open it's one of my favorites!

 

[PhilharMagician]

For what money or I should say lack of money TDO invests in COP for the capacity they get in return specifically during the busier times of the year would make closing COP one of the dumber things they have done.

Go seasonal again like it was from 2002 - 2005 if need be. Better option would be to update it past the 1985 "laser disc" era to interest park guests again. It is a disgrace to still have the final scene that is supposed to representing today's technology being outdated by 25 years. I should at least give TDO credit for finally upgrading the tube TV with a flat screen a couple of years ago, but I am not.

 

[wedenterprises]

I've lost many things at WDW over the years that I loved: Horizons, Delta Dreamflight, Alien Encounter, The Backstage Tour, Hydrolators, Jeremy Irons (lol). But honestly, this would be the one loss I'd finally take issue with. Not even for the "Walt" reasons. Mostly I just love it.

You could get away with changing the last scene for a while. Make the final scene 2025 or something... it could be the Dad dreaming about the future...

Or I'd love to see 1900's, 1940s, 2020 (or near future) then 4100. Inspire us. Show us a vision of the future that's nice. With grass. Show us where we've been, where we will be tomorrow, then inspire us with a hopeful distant future.

 

[Lee]

Nothing is happening to CoP in the near term.
But down the road a bit...next big addition to TL (whatever that may end up being...)...it's bye-bye CoP.

Doesn't bother me at all, really...

 

[afar28]

Nothing is happening to CoP in the near term.
But down the road a bit...next big addition to TL (whatever that may end up being...)...it's bye-bye CoP.

Doesn't bother me at all, really...

Would it be demolished, or moved to the Smithsonisn as previous rumors said?

 

[Lee]

Would it be demolished, or moved to the Smithsonisn as previous rumors said?

Absolutely no way it goes to the Smithsonian as a whole.
I'm sure they would accept a prop or something from it, but there is no chance they want to take it and operate it.

 

[afar28]

Absolutely no way it goes to the Smithsonian as a whole.
I'm sure they would accept a prop or something from it, but there is no chance they want to take it and operate it.

Man, I really didn't want this attraction to be destroyed
Well at least a Tomorrowland refurb isn't on the horizon

 

[The Empress Lilly]

As far as I'm concerned, they change the last scene to the Progress City model. Make it the Carousel of Walt Disney's Progress to EPCOT. An explanation, celebration, of the man's fascination for technological progress.

Otherwise, hands off! The back area of TL, with CoP, the PeopleMover, and Space Mountain too, and its gorgeous white colour and seventies modernism, is the real Tomorrowland. As opposed to 'infantile alien cartoon land' of the front area.

 

[djlaosc]

Nothing is happening to CoP in the near term.
But down the road a bit...next big addition to TL (whatever that may end up being...)...it's bye-bye CoP.

Doesn't bother me at all, really...

So basically, we don't have anything to worry about for a really long time? j/k

 

[Lee]

Well at least a Tomorrowland refurb isn't on the horizon

So basically, we don't have anything to worry about for a really long time? j/k

Welllllll.....not necessarily a really long time.. There are concepts for TL as we speak. One of which would almost certainly require removing CoP.
But it would likely be a few years, yet.

...its gorgeous white colour and seventies modernism...

I think that's what's called an "oxymoron".

(I HATE stark white seventies modernism. HATE it.)

 

[ChrisFL]

I find it very ironic that people are recommending an outdated attraction go to EPCOT, where people are always complaining that its no longer futuristic enough.

Anyway, as has been mentioned on other threads, the problem isn't COP, its the average guest with the attenion-span of a common housefly, gets bored and tries to leave during the show, causing the E-stops and danger for guests.

So Disney could install seat belts/lap bars, or start staffing each theater with a CM and we ALL know that TDO prefers a "minimalist approach" to staffing (which blows my mind every time I visit Tokyo and find like a dozen CM's for a small fantasyland ride).

I don't mind if it gets moved, they could theoretically even move just a few of the sets somewhere as a display and not have the moving ride portion, just have people walk up to it or something and be fine.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Welllllll.....not necessarily a really long time.. There are concepts for TL as we speak. One of which would almost certainly require removing CoP.
But it would likely be a few years, yet.

I think that's what's called an "oxymoron".

(I HATE stark white seventies modernism. HATE it.)

Would said plans make new use of a plot of land between SM and Storybook Circus? . Do I smell a touch of Tron as well?

 

[jdmdisney99]

If CoP closed, Disney would have officially lost touch. That would be a disgrace to Walt Disney, Richard and our dearly departed Robert Sherman, all the delegates and representatives of every country displayed at the 1964 World's Fair, every Tom, Dick and Harry who worked at WE'D Enterprises, and the tons and tons of people who have visited any Disney park all over the world. CoP is the display center and basis of Walt's life concept. Progress. That was the whole idea Walt had in life. Destroying this beloved attraction would destroy the meaning of Mr. Disney's life and destroy and small sliver of creativity left at Disney.

(rant over)