Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Mr. Sullivan]

I don’t think he’s just a random guest. Certainly not a Martin but not unknown to many within TDO.

Even still I don’t find it very likely that someone in that position would speak about any sort of personal grievances with a new attraction to someone who is not in house, likely because they’re aware that person would do exactly what just got done: their words would be shared with everyone online.

 

[Cliff]

Even still I don’t find it very likely that someone in that position would speak about any sort of personal grievances with a new attraction to someone who is not in house, likely because they’re aware that person would do exactly what just got done: their words would be shared with everyone online.

Trust I'm a pure, 100% nobody in every way, shape and form. I'm just another common legacy fan like any other here.

Yeah...what can they do, right? Even if they were not proud of what they built, they can't say it.

I'm not naming names but that day I talked directly to an Imagineer that worked on Journery of Water and I asked her why they did not build it in between the Seas and Living with the Land. Journey of Water is all about water's pathways from land and water. I told her that "Journey" have joined two themes together. There is plenty of space between them and the current location could have been open for something else.

She basically told me "Hmm...y'nkow, that might not have been a bad idea. Oh well, I gues it too late now". We both laughed at it.

I asked another Imagineer that I won't say if Walt's statue was set to a 1:1 scale of him. He cocked his head sideways, asked another Imagineer standing next to him and neither one knew the answer but commended me for asking it. Again...the three of us just laughed.

I dunno...I was told a while back by some connected friends that work for Disney that morale in Imagineering was low. About 2 months later Joe Rhode left and that was when i realized how bad it really was. I remember almost dropping my phone the moment I read that. As a legacy fan, Joe Rhode leaving hurt my heart.

Uggg. Oh well. Disney had one heck of a good run there for a long time. It's nature I guess. Everything dies eventually. It's just a rule of life.

The younger generation is in charge now. The parks will just move forward with different customers. Their money is just as green as the last generation's is but it won't cost Burbank as much time, energy and money to please the new kids today.

 

[James Alucobond]

... but it won't cost Burbank as much time, energy and money to please the new kids today.

They spend more than ever on new stuff now. The money is being put into it even if you dislike where it's being funneled or how things are being budgeted.

 

[phillip9698]

I don’t think he’s just a random guest. Certainly not a Martin but not unknown to many within TDO.

At the level where all imagineers are expected to give him their "true" feelings on any and all projects when asked?

I may be way off base here but that seems like a weird expectation. Especially knowing how quickly any non-standard responses would spread online.

 

[Cliff]

Perhaps 2025 could be a trusted year to do all of that...."again". Walt Disney World has always been the king of Orlando and there really are no other viable choices in 2025. WDW has always been a theme park monopoly in that city and it makes sense to keep leaning on that fact in 2025.

So, yeah,..I think Burbank will be safe to use Parks and Experiences as another life vest again. Parks are the trusted "cash register" of the company today. If it worked in 2024 and Parks profits were held flat then we can be 100% sure that Burbank can do it again in 2025.

Burbank, you have nothing to worry about. As you were....carry on.

 

[monothingie]

So, I take it that what you are saying is that Burbank will need to lean HEAVILY into parks profits "again" in 2025?

Are you saying that they will need to cut more operations budgets and over-harvest every tiny penny they can "again" from every customer in 2025?

Perhaps 2025 could be a trusted year to do all of that...."again". Walt Disney World has always been the king of Orlando and there really are no other viable choices in 2025. WDW has always been a theme park monopoly in that city and it makes sense to keep leaning on that fact in 2025

It's going to be rough. The Disney brand is damaged, there is increased competition from their rivals up I 4 with their brand new park, the prices keep going up, and there's nothing significant coming online for at least the next 3 years.

The current strategy of squeezing the guests is not going to continue to yield the results they want. There has to be a realization that some value needs to be injected into the equation.

.

So, yeah,..I think Burbank will be safe to use Parks and Experiences as another life vest again. Parks are the trusted "cash register" of the company today. If it worked in 2024 and Parks profits were held flat then we can be 100% sure that Burbank can do it again in 2025.

Burbank, you have nothing to worry about. As you were....carry on.

Burbank always leans heavily into the the Experiences segment because Josh's group prints money for the company.

I'm not going to understate that Disney has a lot planned for the end of the decade, but that's 4-5+ years from now, and things change from concept, and the current track record is not for the better.

Does a new DVC, A Cars Ride, a Monsters Inc. Ride, A re-themed RNR, a new Encanto Ride, and a re-themed Indy Ride move the needle?

If the price is 20-30+% more than it is today...then no.

 

[rd805]

Disney found their golden goose by monetizing fastpass, and then introducing an even more expensive fast pass. My guess is that their numbers ended up DECENT in 2024 because of this; but again, the lack of new experiences coming (added with everything else we've discussed for a year+) will probably keep the resorts less full again in the next year.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney found their golden goose by monetizing fastpass, and then introducing an even more expensive fast pass. My guess is that their numbers ended up DECENT in 2024 because of this; but again, the lack of new experiences coming (added with everything else we've discussed for a year+) will probably keep the resorts less full again in the next year.

Agreed, but I think the constant price increases on everything can mostly compensate for the less full resorts (aka lower attendance).

 

[The Mom]

Once again, this thread is about attendance at WDW. Not movies.

 

[tpoly88]

No,...no,..no. I like the fun, irreverent, snarky, sarcastic "me" better. I have more fun with those posts than I do when I get serious. My serious posts are a downer....like this one.

I find this thing to very odd:

Many people started saying that Disney had lost touch with it's customers years ago and was beginning to go downhill.

Soooo many Disney fans accused these people of being Disney "haters" and "liars" that had "no clue" of what they were talking about. To large portions of Disney fans, everything was fine and Disney was in a SOLID market position. Burbank started to warn investors (for legal reasons, they need to be truthful) and wrote this in the official SEC filings to investors:

Disney told investors that the company's revenues and profits "are adversely impacted when our entertainment offerings and products, as well as our methods to make our offerings and products available to consumers, do not achieve sufficient consumer acceptance.

Burbank was admitting their critics WERE correct! For multiple quarters, Burbank openly ADMITTED that parks attendance was slowing. They publically said this over and over again. Meanwhile, many, MANY fans said: "Nope, the parks attendance is perfectly FINE and anybody that says otherwise is a horrible, Disney-hating liar" People even said: "Parks are not slowing,..I was just there and it was PACKED, I saw it with my own two eyes,..so it's ALL just crazy un-true hater-talk"

Burbank has made this fact painfully clear that parks attendance is slowing down AND have even made predictions warning investors...in advance,..that their parks will be down in 2025. And yet again,...people will continue to refute this concept with every fiber of their soul. Do these fans really think that Burbank would lie to the world about this? Really? Why do so many Disney fans deny this concept: The parks ARE slowing down. This a 100% fact and it's OK for fans to finally accept this as a hard truth.

Parks attendance decline is an aggregated number based on weeks and months and quarters of calculations. It's also based on month numbers across different years. Example How did Oct 2024 compare to Oct 2023 or Oct 2022 or Oct 2021...etc. Nobody can go for a day or week and "see" those numbers from "their" individual trip. Nobody can "see" these numbers with their eyes in the parks that Disney collects

This is what I think: Burbank has been rotten for 5 years. (The downfall began before that,..right about when Fox was purchased) It's being run by people who do NOT love this company. They have made DOZENS of horrifically bad business decisions in the parks and in the studios. (Lucasfilm, Pixar and Marvel) They have WAY OVER-spent on Disney+....maybe 5 times more than they should have. They wrongfully expected it to be a giant money-maker and the exact OPPOSITE has happened. Burbank has taken the BEST money-maker they have,...the parks,..and CRIPPLED their ability to help the company in the future. They destroyed EPCOT first and now they are destroying Magic Kingdom next. (River of America and more) They have (supposed) "big turbo-charge" plans for the parks "tomorrow"...but no money yet for daily operations and proper maintenance of these parks TODAY.

Seriously Burbank?...if you have to SEVERLY over-charge slumping numbers of guests for everything and slash park maintenance?.... just to balance your books and keep profits FLAT?....how are you going to get the money to build all these billions in new park ideas in the future? Burbank needs to be CLEANED out. Put in new people that actually love the company and won't blow billions and billions on B.S. things that don't really help the company brand!!!

Uggg,...no more serious posts. I'm going back to the irreverent, snarky, sarcastic, fun "me".

I like those too!! Good information.

 

[tpoly88]

It's great for us with lower attendance. The problem is they keep raising prices to make up for that lack of attendance. I just don't know if it's sustainable.

I agree with the statement that attendance is going back to 2012 not the crazy 2018/19 levels. Parks are busy when they should be , nephew went yesterday with his wife and 3 yrs old and by the afternoon (after 2pm it got packed). Morning not so bad but it’s still new years week. Prices had to go up with inflation and new hr wages. No choice. Plus I’m sure disneys other costs for insurance, electricity and such are all up. Hopefully you’ll see another reset if fuel prices come down hard. If…

 

[Disstevefan1]

I like the more serious you! was just there yesterday and Epcot was pretty full, above normal but ive seen worse. We were going to go the Merry Christmas party at MK but at $210 a person, made me pause and do something else but guess what? it was sold out anyway without me, so people are paying for it. One thing to know is people are willing to pay for a premium experience…

The folks paying $210 (think) they are paying for a premium experience. We attended this year, I think it was one of the lower price days but for the three of us it was over $500 something.

We had not gone since pre pandemic 2019, but it seemed to be a lesser experience this year, I think there was less cookie stations and less variety, I know I got nowhere near the amount of cookies compared to 2019.

But I did get to ride TRON for the first time. That was great.

I also got sick from that visit and I am one of those weirdos with the hand sanitizer, mask, try not to touch stuff etc. and still got sick. (no extra charge for that).

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The folks paying $210 (think) they are paying for a premium experience. We attended this year, I think it was one of the lower price days but for the three of us it was over $500 something.

We had not gone since pre pandemic 2019, but it seemed to be a lesser experience this year, I think there was less cookie stations and less variety, I know I got nowhere near the amount of cookies compared to 2019.

But I did get to ride TRON for the first time. That was great.

I also got sick from that visit and I am one of those weirdos with the hand sanitizer, mask, try not to touch stuff etc. and still got sick. (no extra charge for that).

sorry you got sick - always hard when in a crowded place

I think part of the higher price now for the parties and part of the "premium experience" is they max out at a lower number than before Covid. Not saying it is empty but they don't pack people in like in 2018-2019 when all I heard was people complaining about the parties that they couldn't move and the attractions had long waits, etc.

Whether it is for the parties, after hours event, LLPP, etc - people will pay more for lower crowds and lower waits and anything "extra" beyond the standard offering

 

[Disstevefan1]

sorry you got sick - always hard when in a crowded place

I think part of the higher price now for the parties and part of the "premium experience" is they max out at a lower number than before Covid. Not saying it is empty but they don't pack people in like in 2018-2019 when all I heard was people complaining about the parties that they couldn't move and the attractions had long waits, etc.

Whether it is for the parties, after hours event, LLPP, etc - people will pay more for lower crowds and lower waits and anything "extra" beyond the standard offering

While it wasn't as super mobbed this year as it was in 2019, it was still crowded, still long waits for attractions.
I agree they are using the price a a way to limit attendance.

As I said, there seems like less treat stations and less variety.