Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Animaniac93-98]

The problem with reducing things like parades, streetmosphere, shopping, dining, etc is it leaves rides as the ONLY thing left for guests to do at the park.

This is why DHS in its current state is so bad.

There's not much to do besides the rides, and there's not many rides worth doing to begin with.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Personally, I believe it to be more of a labor issue with Disney. Either:

A. Labor costs have risen so high. If Disney was to drop prices and were booking more rooms and tables, the amount of staff it would take to make that happen would wash out.

B. They cant find the labor. They are increasing prices to try and make up for the shortfall.

I know the guest author on the Disney Dish this week said there is a little t of challenges finding entertainment CMs/character workers and why some shows have been cut or reduced, etc. with this group being particularly challenging to find folks as many who would do that have left Florida

And this staffing challenge is only going to increase with the opening of Epic Universe

 

[Tha Realest]

I know some here really dislike this guy and it's anecdotal data in terms of park levels, but holy smokes HS was barren and I do like his very honest take on park cleanliness and all.

His heel turn once he was no longer a favored influencer has been hilarious to watch.

The best thing about this is he literally calls himself “Prince Charming” and has multiple Disney tattoos, but he’s realized since he’s now persona non grata that his only lane is being a negative voice in the community.

 

[wannabeBelle]

I know the guest author on the Disney Dish this week said there is a little t of challenges finding entertainment CMs/character workers and why some shows have been cut or reduced, etc. with this group being particularly challenging to find folks as many who would do that have left Florida

And this staffing challenge is only going to increase with the opening of Epic Universe

I have heard this before, although I will tell you I follow the Disney Auditions page for one of my cousins who is an actress/singer/dancer to see if there is anything of interest for her and I have seen some holiday casting calls and one or two other things over the last few weeks, but as of today there is only one casting notice for WDW.
Also some of the Entertainment cast I know is still in Central Florida. Many of them are doing other things, but I havent heard that they were called back by Disney, so I just am not sure how hard they are trying to hire back the Entertainment folks. Marie

 

[Tha Realest]

I know the guest author on the Disney Dish this week said there is a little t of challenges finding entertainment CMs/character workers and why some shows have been cut or reduced, etc. with this group being particularly challenging to find folks as many who would do that have left Florida

And this staffing challenge is only going to increase with the opening of Epic Universe

I know a lot of people bag on Universal, but they (at least in Hollywood) realy seem to put a premium on streetmosphere. Everywhere we went there were walk around characters, entertainment, improv window folks and dancers. It seems like Epic Universe - particular Darkmoor - is leaning heavily into that.

 

[Saskdw]

This right here. I owned a hotel less than 3 miles from main gate. We did very well and stayed at least 90% occupancy year round but.... We had several rooms that we called suites. They were in reality 2 rooms we connected. Not many people go for a higher priced "suite" at a 2 star hotel. They just wanted a room close to WDW to sleep and shower. So we sold on a non holiday weekday maybe 4 of the 12 "suites", but we almost always sold out every available regular room. In low times many of those were Disney contractors working on new stuff. You have to know how to play the game. I would encourage my staff to scan the families checking in who had good vibes and upgrade them to the empty suites. This would open another standard room which I would almost always rent out. Empty rooms DO NOT make any money! I filled every room I could every time. When I employed this strategy our occupancy was closer to 97% and our reviews soared across the board. WDW right now has no vision and is so short sighted.

We've never received an upgrade of any kind at Disney or Universal.
Even when I put down in the notes it was our 25th Anniversary. All we got was a happy anniversary from the person checking us in.

There's nothing like a free upgrade to build loyalty and good will. I hear stories of this happening, but never witnessed it myself.

 

[Saskdw]

I know the guest author on the Disney Dish this week said there is a little t of challenges finding entertainment CMs/character workers and why some shows have been cut or reduced, etc. with this group being particularly challenging to find folks as many who would do that have left Florida

And this staffing challenge is only going to increase with the opening of Epic Universe

Doesn't Universal have a higher starting wage now? They are hiring a ton of people for the new park.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Doesn't Universal have a higher starting wage now? They are hiring a ton of people for the new park.

After the latest updates I believe they are both at around $17 to start and Disney has agreed with the union for more upcoming increases.

Not sure for entertainment specifically though but for "regular" they are about the same

(But not sure about other benefits, how they treat them, how consistent they are getting booked, etc)

 

[el_super]

Nothing. If you cut prices there would be greater attendance. This is tried and true economics. More tickets bought, more rooms filled, more merchandise bought, more tables filled. Those at the top have to ask themselves if the current model of higher prices and lower attendance is better than overall lower prices with much higher attendance.

Achieving the same level of money coming in, with fewer people in the park is always going to be the better option. The more people you cram into the place, the worse the experience is. We've seen this, back when they used to cram 20 million people into MK a year. Having fewer people in the park reduces stress for guests, cast and equipment alike. It costs less and you get more value from it.

Nothing, this is the problem with Disney logic, rather than offering value and making more money from increased sales they offer less, charge more, and then wonder why sales are down.

I don't think they are wondering why attendance is down. They know because they caused it. On purpose.

Lowering the prices to get more people in the park just feels like a real, circling the drain kind of move. Why would you ever be incentivized to build new attractions and spend more money, if you can fill the place by just making it cheaper?

Somehow, I think this is all going to make more sense once D23 happens.

 

[Tha Realest]

Achieving the same level of money coming in, with fewer people in the park is always going to be the better option.

I don’t think that math works, especially when you have other interconnected revenue streams (line skipping services, food and beverage, merchandise, memory maker, and resorts) that rely on margins made from larger attendance pools.

 

[el_super]

I don’t think that math works, especially when you have other interconnected revenue streams (line skipping services, food and beverage, merchandise, memory maker, and resorts) that rely on margins made from larger attendance pools.

It's been working so far. This thread has been yammering on about low attendance since 2023, but last year was one of the most profitable the parks have ever seen in their history. If there comes a point where it stops working, you would expect to see action from Disney and yet ... so far....

Did we ever get those lower priced tickets that we were promised?

 

[Saskdw]

Achieving the same level of money coming in, with fewer people in the park is always going to be the better option. The more people you cram into the place, the worse the experience is. We've seen this, back when they used to cram 20 million people into MK a year. Having fewer people in the park reduces stress for guests, cast and equipment alike. It costs less and you get more value from it.



I don't think they are wondering why attendance is down. They know because they caused it. On purpose.

Lowering the prices to get more people in the park just feels like a real, circling the drain kind of move. Why would you ever be incentivized to build new attractions and spend more money, if you can fill the place by just making it cheaper?

Somehow, I think this is all going to make more sense once D23 happens.

Sorry IMO you are giving Disney too much credit.

I'm on board with your line of thinking. I'm willing to pay slightly above market price for a great experience.
The problem is Disney isn't delivering a great experience anymore. Understaffed, dirty parks, and rides that constantly break down.

There's no viable plan here. It's a simple case of jack the price and spend zero money on improving the experience. And in this case actually decrease the experience.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I don't think they are wondering why attendance is down. They know because they caused it. On purpose.

They definitely caused it, it wasn't on purpose however.

Sure they can raise prices to keep some from coming, but you don't also reduce maintenance, offerings, quality, and service too. That is what makes those people that can pay the extra prices to come take vacations elsewhere now

 

[GhostHost1000]

It's been working so far. This thread has been yammering on about low attendance since 2023, but last year was one of the most profitable the parks have ever seen in their history. If there comes a point where it stops working, you would expect to see action from Disney and yet ... so far....

Did we ever get those lower priced tickets that we were promised?

 

[el_super]

Sorry IMO you are giving Disney too much credit.

They know what they are doing.

They definitely caused it, it wasn't on purpose however.

Of course it was (see above)

 

[el_super]

I thought we were promised even more discounting after the "terrible" holiday weekend.

 

[GhostHost1000]

They know what they are doing.



Of course it was (see above)

you don't reduce maintenance, offerings, quality, and service for crowd control, especially with another competitor down the road opening up a brand new park soon

If they did, they are dumber than I thought.

 

[el_super]

you don't reduce maintenance, offerings, quality, and service for crowd control, especially with another competitor down the road opening up a brand new park soon

If they did, they are dumber than I thought.

Dumber all the way to the bank I guess. Just for context:

MK attendance in 2019 (max ever recorded: 20,963,000
Parks revenue for 2019: $26.2B
MK attendance in 2022: 17,133,000
Parks revenue for 2022: $28.2B

Either they have figured out how to get more from less, or WDW just isn't all that important to their numbers anymore.

 

[Saskdw]

Dumber all the way to the bank I guess. Just for context:

MK attendance in 2019 (max ever recorded: 20,963,000
Parks revenue for 2019: $26.2B
MK attendance in 2022: 17,133,000
Parks revenue for 2022: $28.2B

Either they have figured out how to get more from less, or WDW just isn't all that important to their numbers anymore.

We all know about the revenge travelling profits after the pandemic ended. That's all come to a crashing halt.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Dumber all the way to the bank I guess. Just for context:

MK attendance in 2019 (max ever recorded: 20,963,000
Parks revenue for 2019: $26.2B
MK attendance in 2022: 17,133,000
Parks revenue for 2022: $28.2B

Either they have figured out how to get more from less, or WDW just isn't all that important to their numbers anymore.

You really need to take off the goofy glasses and see the reality and trends of things at the parks.

We all want the best, but what they do isn’t always the best whether you want to pretend it is or not.