Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here's a great example of just how out-of-touch they are with their consumers. What the @#*& makes them think I would even consider paying almost 3x more for each night? I'm certain they have a couple of decades worth of my purchasing habits that would tell them otherwise.

View attachment 800502

…can’t put a price on magic, dude

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

the one thing that really surprised me this year is that they have this Lilly collection that has been 40% off for at least 3 months now. I expected the stuff to fly out within a week. Not sure if it is still around today, but just surprised me that it didn't sell well at 40% off.

Lilly sales have fallen the last couple of years

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Also to put in perspective, BOG Dinner is roughly $25 less that a day for the dining plan ($94.28 vs. $70). Which, if you think about it, is right on target because for that extra $25 you can get QS and a Snack.

Then again, BOG is 2 sit down credits. wompwomp

The dining plan is a ripoff

 

[CampbellzSoup]

The dining plan is a ripoff

The people who always say I want nothing to think about when I go on vacation rather get ripped off, then present their credit card….???

 

[JD80]

Why are you tipping 20% when food costs have shot so high? Ridiculous.

A waiter years ago got a 15% tip on $100. Now it’s 20% on $175? No way. Percentages are dynamic to the bill total.

ew

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Here's a great example of just how out-of-touch they are with their consumers. What the @#*& makes them think I would even consider paying almost 3x more for each night? I'm certain they have a couple of decades worth of my purchasing habits that would tell them otherwise.

View attachment 800502

Probably the same algorithm that sent me the email about the new Golden Oaks Four Seasons residencies

 

[Laketravis]

Is that a family suite or the mermaid rooms?

Frankly I wouldn't care if it were a rooftop penthouse suite but I clicked thru the offer and it looks like that's for a Cars Family Suite.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The people who always say I want nothing to think about when I go on vacation rather get ripped off, then present their credit card….???

Correct…it’s part of the psychology

 

[monothingie]

They are starting to address the price with discounts. But they are finding out the standard 20%-30% discounts don't sway enough people when your prices are 40%-50% too high for the product you are offering.

The food prices is something that really needs to be addressed. Nobody is buying the pandemic excuse anymore.

Discounts only available at select hotels with limited inventory for most stays Sunday-Thursday.

That’s what is called a con job.

 

[monothingie]

Nothing, this is the problem with Disney logic, rather than offering value and making more money from increased sales they offer less, charge more, and then wonder why sales are down.

Disney makes $0 from a non sale, it makes no sense to have empty rooms at overpriced hotels, empty tables at overpriced restaurants, hundreds of thousands of square feet of overpriced retail goods that aren’t selling, etc.

They’d rather make a $20 per item profit on 100 sales than a $10 per item profit on 1000 sales, this logic only makes sense on a corporate profit margin spreadsheet, in real life its lunacy.

The experiment of appealing to higher margin guests failed. Now they’ve dug themselves into a hole with no ladder.

This is the culmination of years of poor decision making, taking shortcuts, and completely not understanding their customers. It is a master class in spectacular incompetence and how to destroy decades of good will with your guests.

 

[networkpro]

What? You mean they Don't find you with the roses anymore??? That was such a neat part of the experience. What is wrong with them and why are they killing all the good experiences for nothing but increases in price??!!

Since everyone is assign a table, there is no open seating and no need to locate you.

 

[Nubs70]

They’d rather make a $20 per item profit on 100 sales than a $10 per item profit on 1000 sales, this logic only makes sense on a corporate profit margin spreadsheet, in real life its lunacy.

Exactly. WDW is in the business of making margin instead of money.

 

[seabreezept813]

Im a bit spoiled by Disneyland, but we go to the plaza inn character meal there and the breakfast buffet is fine and we've always seen like 10 different characters. And the price is just $46/adult and $27/kid - very reasonable esp considering the # and variety of characters. Nothing at WDW comes close.

We bring up Disneyland every year and chicken out. But youngest is 4 next year so we’re getting closer to experimenting with a more than 3 hour flight.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The experiment of appealing to higher margin guests failed. Now they’ve dug themselves into a hole with no ladder.

This is the culmination of years of poor decision making, taking shortcuts, and completely not understanding their customers. It is a master class in spectacular incompetence and how to destroy decades of good will with your guests.

…the thought had occurred…once or twice

 

[seabreezept813]

Agree, I always found the food pretty decent, I’d happily pay $10 for the soup, $15 for the French dip, $10 for the desert, and even $5 for the refillable soda. $40 for what would be a $25 meal in a normal restaurant is reasonable, $70 is insane.

We’d be back in a heartbeat. We miss the ambience. But 400 dollars for a heavy meal on a hot day. I can’t say never because my family asks, but for now it’s a firm no.

 

[hopemax]

Nothing. If you cut prices there would be greater attendance. This is tried and true economics. More tickets bought, more rooms filled, more merchandise bought, more tables filled. Those at the top have to ask themselves if the current model of higher prices and lower attendance is better than overall lower prices with much higher attendance.

On which attractions would you put these people in? Are there seats for these new arrivals on Tron, Flight of Passage, RotR, Slinky Dog, and a dozen other rides? We all know the answer is no, so which people should Disney kick out of their seats so these new arrivals can ride? Then the multi-million dollar question... if you are a guest who has been replaced on the big rides by one of these people who showed up when it got cheaper, do *you* still buy a ticket, plan a vacation?

For better or for worse, all the LL talk, all the DAS talk... people are learning rides sell out. Sometimes, quickly, and there isn't much anyone can do about it, because purchasing LL may get you 1 ride, or 2, but a full day's worth? How much money are families going to risk to not ride the things they want? Disney is maxed out on E-ticket attraction capacity no matter how many dining locations and hotel rooms they have empty. Now, in ye olden days, Disney would sell people on the WDW *resort*, the golfing, the water activities, the shopping, the getting away from it all. Now, they've trained 21st century guests to be of a certain type (rides or the day is shot), and eliminated just about everything else that could elevate the experience. These are the consequences, and cheaper prices will only exacerbate the decline of the experience of all the people trying to get on all the big rides.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

On which attractions would you put these people in? Are there seats for these new arrivals on Tron, Flight of Passage, RotR, Slinky Dog, and a dozen other rides? We all know the answer is no, so which people should Disney kick out of their seats so these new arrivals can ride? Then the multi-million dollar question... if you are a guest who has been replaced on the big rides by one of these people who showed up when it got cheaper, do *you* still buy a ticket, plan a vacation?

For better or for worse, all the LL talk, all the DAS talk... people are learning rides sell out. Sometimes, quickly, and there isn't much anyone can do about it, because purchasing LL may get you 1 ride, or 2, but a full day's worth? How much money are families going to risk to not ride the things they want? Disney is maxed out on E-ticket attraction capacity no matter how many dining locations and hotel rooms they have empty. Now, in ye olden days, Disney would sell people on the WDW *resort*, the golfing, the water activities, the shopping, the getting away from it all. Now, they've trained 21st century guests to be of a certain type (rides or the day is shot), and eliminated just about everything else that could provide elevate the experience. These are the consequences, and cheaper prices will only exacerbate the decline of the experience of all the people trying to get on all the big rides.

Overpricing the restaurants and the merchandise just magnifies this problem though, the 1-1.5 hours we used to spend eating at BOG is now a 15 minute quick service meal, then back in a ride line. The half hour wandering through the Emporium looking at, and buying, merch is now just a few minutes, long enough to look at a few price tags before quickly leaving to get back in a ride line.

The problem with reducing things like parades, streetmosphere, shopping, dining, etc is it leaves rides as the ONLY thing left for guests to do at the park.

The rides have always been the “reason” people go to a Disney park but once you stepped through the gates you’d spend half your time doing other things, with those other things now prohibitively overpriced (or eliminated) the only thing left to do is stand in line for the rides.

A fine example of this is the Hyperion theater at DCA, it used to pull a couple thousand guests out of ride lines for every show, with shows running most of the day, now it sits empty and those thousands of guests are now standing in ride lines. Same is true of the Fantasyland theater in DL, the Little Mermaid theater in HS, etc. No nighttime parade = thousands of more guests in ride lines. They have a lot of options to keep people out of ride lines, they just don’t use them because they are cutting everywhere they can.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Nothing, this is the problem with Disney logic, rather than offering value and making more money from increased sales they offer less, charge more, and then wonder why sales are down.

Disney makes $0 from a non sale, it makes no sense to have empty rooms at overpriced hotels, empty tables at overpriced restaurants, hundreds of thousands of square feet of overpriced retail goods that aren’t selling, etc.

They’d rather make a $20 per item profit on 100 sales than a $10 per item profit on 1000 sales, this logic only makes sense on a corporate profit margin spreadsheet, in real life its lunacy.

This right here. I owned a hotel less than 3 miles from main gate. We did very well and stayed at least 90% occupancy year round but.... We had several rooms that we called suites. They were in reality 2 rooms we connected. Not many people go for a higher priced "suite" at a 2 star hotel. They just wanted a room close to WDW to sleep and shower. So we sold on a non holiday weekday maybe 4 of the 12 "suites", but we almost always sold out every available regular room. In low times many of those were Disney contractors working on new stuff. You have to know how to play the game. I would encourage my staff to scan the families checking in who had good vibes and upgrade them to the empty suites. This would open another standard room which I would almost always rent out. Empty rooms DO NOT make any money! I filled every room I could every time. When I employed this strategy our occupancy was closer to 97% and our reviews soared across the board. WDW right now has no vision and is so short sighted.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Personally, I believe it to be more of a labor issue with Disney. Either:

A. Labor costs have risen so high. If Disney was to drop prices and were booking more rooms and tables, the amount of staff it would take to make that happen would wash out.

B. They cant find the labor. They are increasing prices to try and make up for the shortfall.

 

[ABQ]

I know some here really dislike this guy and it's anecdotal data in terms of park levels, but holy smokes HS was barren and I do like his very honest take on park cleanliness and all.