Laketravis
Well-Known Member
I agree. I've really enjoyed RCL. Even Carnival. But I won't do NCL again.
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Is attendance really down at WDW this or…
- Thread starter coachb
- Start date
I agree. I've really enjoyed RCL. Even Carnival. But I won't do NCL again.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
It is kind of wild four years after Covid that the cruise industry, of all things, has shown it to be one of the more resilient of TWDC’s portfolio.
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Sometimes I think about how during Covid, Carnival scrapped 5 old but perfectly good ships, assuming the business was headed for a sustained downturn.
Cruises are typically booked a year or more in advance. What you're seeing now is peak cruise travel and bookings and prices. These prices industry wide are quickly approaching an unsustainable point where some type of correction will occur.
DCL is in a bad spot here because, as typical of Disney, they are not in an ideal position to adapt to any correction. Not that the others won't be impacted, but a slow down in demand, especially at the price point Disney commands will hurt them.
wannabeBelle
Well-Known Member
I haven't been on NCL at all but one of the other agents that I am friends with, Gloria has and she wasn't wild about it. She is a big fan of Celebrity and will usually choose that, if possible. Royal is good for her as well. We both like Disney as well, but the cabin configuration makes it not so easy to share a cabin with a platonic friend, as the one main bed doesnt split into two twins like all of the other lines out there so someone has to sleep on a couch bed. I'm sure it is fine for a night or two but after that I'm not sure my old bones would be so appreciative of that. So unless we each feel like booking our own room with the single supplement ($$$) which I will still do on occasion as I do like DCL, I have tended to book Royal or Celebrity for my own travels. Marie
Good thing interior queue bathrooms were built at Flight of Passage with a 140min wait. Peoples bladders are thankful.
Laketravis
Well-Known Member
That posted wait is now 160 minutes.
EE was 55 when we entered. Actual was 22. The posted was down to 30 when we boarded.
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
I've been hearing a lot about inflation...and it's not just the prices of things
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Cruise lines report their occupancy metrics differently than hotels and always have. The occupancy is set on double occupancy, but is less than its maximal occupancy (ie third and fourth guests in rooms). It’s actually expected for operators to have >100% occupancy, they all do.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
I could a few things:
The system that calculates the posted wait time is totally broken.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times so folks feel good when the wait time is shorter.
Disney intentionally inflates the posted times to drive up Genie+ and ILL sales.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I’m on Viva right now… I like it, but it’s the same flaws that DCL Wish has. Trying to load a medium sized ship with too many venues to keep up with the big ships. It results in micro venues that struggle to correctly spread guests around.
I wouldn’t say it’s horrible, but it requires some planning. Which I know people have strong opinions on.
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
All the above
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Cruising is still (outside of DCL) quite underpriced for the product compared to land vacations. I know cruising is experiencing pent up demand, but it’s also experiencing discovery by a new demographic. Supposedly millennials made up more than half of RCL occupancy. So I think some of it is actually going to be driven by a sustained new customer base moving forward.
Millennials have dominated the parks for a while now, they aren’t coming to save them.
Now DCL on the other hand is so freaking niche I’m not sure if they’ve properly even tapped their market. RCL is basically adding as much capacity to Orlando in the next 16 months that dwarfs the entirety of the current DCL occupancy. Disney is literally missing the boat on the market if they don’t hurry up and order more vessels.
And DAS overuse, which will hopefully be fixed in a month.
If you're looking at base cruising fares, (Inside Room, No Specialty Restaurants, No Drinks, No Drink Plan, No Dining Plan, No extras) then I would agree with you. You can get on a week long cruise on a new ship for under $1K.
Where the craziness starts to come in is with the upcharges. $uites, Drinks, Specialty Dining, Shore excursion, On board extras, all add up.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Haven’t they done a masterful job of encouraging people to travel and drop $10,000 a week on that?
Iger should give half his salary to Michael Eisner…because without dvc in Florida the parks would be in series financial distress - which means all of Disney would be - and the management would have been fired 3x over.
We’re up to 78? I think nights on Royal and 12 on celebrity…7 more on deck in August.
From my first on voyager…to the last 10 years of mega ships…I continue to appreciate them more.
Gotta be honest…my 3 runs on dcl diminished over time. Was very impressed with magic in 1999….slightly less with wonder around 2006 and very meh on dream in 2014. They haven’t given me anything sort of an incentive to go again. Second fiddle. Just my opinion
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I feel like I might have mentioned this once before….
The problem with the Orlando parks is the prices.
They don’t represent a good value to the non-diehard now…and even they are starting to defect/reduce.
It also explains why Anaheim has been more insulated…a much higher cost market that is insulated from the cruise market that dominates the Florida coasts.
Cruises are a better value…and they will accommodate prices based on demand without hesitation over the Orlando market that has started this ridiculous policy of stubborn price fixing that isn’t working.
For instance…if Disney knew they were going to have a serious attendance dropoff after Covid in 2023…which they did in 2021…
Then you get off your ar$e and do aggressive tactics in 2022 at the latest.
What did they do? Eliminated beneficial things like dvc discount for annuals and tables in wonderland…rolled out a $1500 pass and increase the prices of Dasani twice a month.
Failing management using a bad Philosphy.
Let me go see how much money I lost on them this week?
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Fair enough! Though the entertainment is largely better than land based products and the free food on the nicer mass market lines is great.
I am largely an inside studio person (and a DIY traveler). It’s the one thing NCL probably does a bit better than the industry average. Most of that is baked into the price with not this ridiculous price disparity on the ‘cruise only’ rooms.
Celeb and Royal mark the heck up the drink packages, even in the supposedly included fares.
Though it’s one of the fleeting perks of loyalty to the operators. I have a perfectly serviceable small free drinks package with status.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I don't know how such things are calculated, but a quick Google search tells me that cruise numbers are projected to increase by 10% through 2028. I get that it's not for everybody, but for the people who it is for, I think a lot of them just didn't consider cruising in the past. I know when I was young the stereotype of a cruiser was a senior citizen who wanted to play shuffleboard on deck. There's a lot of untapped or just becoming developed potential there.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I think people get too hung up on ‘its not a tbeme park’. It’s not… but why would you only do one type of vacation? That would be like saying ‘i love going out to eat!’ But insisting on only ever trying one restaurant.
I would tell someone ’why do you want to stay at a resort like ghe poly?’. They would say things like the surroundings, the service, the food, the location, the atmosphere, etc. and that’s what I’m trying to highlight… you like it for what you get out of it… not because of ‘its the poly’.
This is why you can try different restaurants, rides, hotels, etc and find you like more than one
Falling for DCL is not about falling in love with a boat… or the ocean. It’s about getting a great vacation experience and finding you like what you get out of it.
People didn’t love theme parks in muggy Florida. They loved how disney treated them, the atmosphere they created, and then how they were entertained. Then they learned to love wdw as a place where they could get that.
But it’s not the only place… and not even the best anymore…