Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JD80]

I think it depends on how you use the dining plan. For us, it's a loss every time. We have never gotten full value out of getting it. We have used it in the past for pre-pay abilities and to budget. But we lost money on it.

Absolutely, the dining plan is only advantageous if you actually use it to it's full capacity. It pays for a sit down meal a day with adult beverage options. If you're not a sit-down meal a day family, then it's never going to be financially viable.

I did the math somewhere in this thread.

 

[pigglewiggle]

If you have a certain week that you have to travel, the only discount offered during that time is free dining, then of course it's advantageous to get it.
Or you can be like us and choose a week that has no type of discount at all.

 

[Lilofan]

We have been at Coronado Springs for 9 nights(leaving tomorrow) and anecdotally I will say the parks have been very manageable. We have not purchased Genie+ at all and had no trouble getting on everything. For FoP we waited the posted 55 min time. For Rat we actually waited 10 min over the 60 min wait time. Everything else was generally 30 min or less even when the wait time was posted as longer.

Our resort was wonderfully quiet even with a three day convention going on.

Leaving O'Hana last night at seven the waiting area was not even half full. I have never seen it NOT crawling with people.

We had a great trip with very manageable crowds

When a number CPs are scheduled for 6 hour shifts and not 8 , at MK while paying rent at CP housing apts that’s not a good sign.

 

[Grimley1968]

The percentage discount versus "free dining" debate is becoming a timeless debate, like whether the chicken or the egg was first.

It really does depend on how it's used, the price level of the resort, etc.

 

[AEfx]

I think it depends on how you use the dining plan. For us, it's a loss every time. We have never gotten full value out of getting it. We have used it in the past for pre-pay abilities and to budget. But we lost money on it.

What's funny is that Disney isn't even pretending it does anymore. I took a look at the website, and basically they say the "value" is in saving you time on your vacation from "meal budgeting". They do say for 3-9 year-olds it saves up to 20% on kids meals...

 

[JD80]

The percentage discount versus "free dining" debate is becoming a timeless debate, like whether the chicken or the egg was first.

It really does depend on how it's used, the price level of the resort, etc.

Becoming?? It already is! And it's my favorite one because it has math in it.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Absolutely, the dining plan is only advantageous if you actually use it to it's full capacity. It pays for a sit down meal a day with adult beverage options. If you're not a sit-down meal a day family, then it's never going to be financially viable.

I did the math somewhere in this thread.

I mean isn't that true of basically anything? If you're paying for 100% of X, but only actually using 75% of X, then buying X isn't really going to be advantageous for you, not matter what X is.

 

[JD80]

What's funny is that Disney isn't even pretending it does anymore. I took a look at the website, and basically they say the "value" is in saving you time on your vacation from "meal budgeting". They do say for 3-9 year-olds it saves up to 20% on kids meals...

There is a financial savings, it's just that the savings isn't one size fits all. First, the more kids you have under 10, the better. It's actually a pretty good deal. The more people who can't take advantage of an adult beverage in your party the less financially viable it is.

Lets do some math. I've made some assumptions on cost per meal. Ticket prices aren't part of the totals, but you do have to upgrade to hoppers with free dining. Also assuming you are upgrading your free QSDP to a DDP.

This is assuming that you are matching the eating habits of a DDP person (1 TS, 1 QS + 1 Snack) a day. If you're not or you don't want to, then it doesn't matter anyway.

Free Dining vs. Rack rate saves you $118.00 at a 30% discount at $350 a night. Assuming the food budget above is correct, the inflection point where a Room Discount and Free dining are equivalent is at $415.50 for rack rate for a Family of 5. At $415.50 per night and 30% discount with NO KIDS, Free Dining is a net loss of almost $800.

Even with 2 Adults and 2 Kids you're now in the hole $264.00.

Alternatively if one of your kids turns 10, with $415.50 a night and 30% discount so you're not 3 adults and 2 kids, the Free Dining Offer is $50 more expensive.

HOWEVER!!

The one caveat here is Hopper Tickets. If you were going to upgrade to hoppers ANYWAY for your trip, you can put $475 of savings under the Free Dining banner in every scenario.

Weren't getting hoppers = have more kids get more savings.
Were going to get hoppers = typical family of 4 will save some cash.

The value prop gets better in ever scenario the cheaper your room. Disney Kids scale Free Dining better than any offer.

NOT INCLUDED IN CALCULATIONS: Refillable mug and potential cost of soda/coffee you would otherwise have to purchase.

 

[JD80]

I mean isn't that true of basically anything? If you're paying for 100% of X, but only actually using 75% of X, then buying X isn't really going to be advantageous for you, not matter what X is.

Mathematically sure. In this specific instance there is some value (for some people) to make their vacation feel all inclusive. I know I attach some value to not thinking about money when I'm at WDW and know it's already paid off.

 

[UNCgolf]

I mean isn't that true of basically anything? If you're paying for 100% of X, but only actually using 75% of X, then buying X isn't really going to be advantageous for you, not matter what X is.

Yes, but I think that's kind of the point of the DDP (and also of the prix fixe meals they've added around property).

You can get good value out of the DDP (and out of Disney's prix fixe meals) if you plan accordingly, order specific items, etc. but the the majority of guests likely aren't and thus it's a money maker for Disney.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Mathematically sure. In this specific instance there is some value (for some people) to make their vacation feel all inclusive. I know I attach some value to not thinking about money when I'm at WDW and know it's already paid off.

Oh I absolutely agree with that too. We sometimes go with 2-3 sub family groups with one group paying for the entire trip. Having everyone with the meal plan makes that alot easier. Or with older kids that might be splitting off on their own.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Yes, but I think that's kind of the point of the DDP (and also of the prix fixe meals they've added around property).

You can get good value out of the DDP (and out of Disney's prix fixe meals) if you plan accordingly, order specific items, etc. but the the majority of guests likely aren't and thus it's a money maker for Disney.

Probably true. But I don't "blame" Disney for that. If you are buying something that you aren't going to use, or something that isn't truly geared towards your way of eating, that's on you.

I would sometimes think of the cost of a deluxe resort we were paying for, only to rope drop and close the parks, and only being at the resort to sleep. We likely weren't getting true "value" there as we could have stayed at a cheaper resort and done the same thing.

 

[JD80]

Probably true. But I don't "blame" Disney for that. If you are buying something that you aren't going to use, or something that isn't truly geared towards your way of eating, that's on you.

I would sometimes think of the cost of a deluxe resort we were paying for, only to rope drop and close the parks, and only being at the resort to sleep. We likely weren't getting true "value" there as we could have stayed at a cheaper resort and done the same thing.

Unless you want to count extra 2 hours of extended evening hours you get with deluxe. That's about $20-25 of value right there.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I think it depends on how you use the dining plan. For us, it's a loss every time. We have never gotten full value out of getting it. We have used it in the past for pre-pay abilities and to budget. But we lost money on it.

Yes, but that is only if you buy the DDP.

In this case free dining as a discount is the cost of your WDW food as compared against the slyly worded 'up to 25% off' room offer.

These days when Disney advertises one of their %off offers, the actual discount is usually less than the advertised up to percent. WDW's discounts are now vaguely worded 'up to 25% off', which = they are often just 10-15% off rack.

Mind, food quality during the free DDP time period can also be adjusted.

I agree, the actual value of getting the DDP for free vs. paying OOP for food could easily be smaller than the room discount. It really depends how many people you have, and what food you get when you are paying OOP. I trust you know how much you personally spend on food at WDW. For us, we don't get the full value of DDP either, so we never buy it, but free dining can still be a bigger discount than the % off room offers.

***********************

As an aside : I was recently floored to see the price of 1900 Park Fare is now $60 per person! A fair number of character meals and places like 'Ohana are now $60 per person. (Mind, I would not pay $60 for a character meal, but I might use a 'free' DDP credit to pay for one.

I used to eat more sit-down meals at WDW, but now we mostly eat QS. It just isn't worthwhile to me to pay the TS prices, especially with how much TS meals impact park touring. If I pay for G+, I don't want to also be stuck for two hours of my day in a restaurant.

 

[SourcererMark79]

I used to eat more sit-down meals at WDW, but now we mostly eat QS. It just isn't worthwhile to me to pay the TS prices, especially with how much TS meals impact park touring. If I pay for G+, I don't want to also be stuck for two hours of my day in a restaurant.

Many of the best TS are at the resorts, IMHO, and that really changes how we tour.

 

[seabreezept813]

There is a financial savings, it's just that the savings isn't one size fits all. First, the more kids you have under 10, the better. It's actually a pretty good deal. The more people who can't take advantage of an adult beverage in your party the less financially viable it is.

Lets do some math. I've made some assumptions on cost per meal. Ticket prices aren't part of the totals, but you do have to upgrade to hoppers with free dining. Also assuming you are upgrading your free QSDP to a DDP.

View attachment 781221

This is assuming that you are matching the eating habits of a DDP person (1 TS, 1 QS + 1 Snack) a day. If you're not or you don't want to, then it doesn't matter anyway.

Free Dining vs. Rack rate saves you $118.00 at a 30% discount at $350 a night. Assuming the food budget above is correct, the inflection point where a Room Discount and Free dining are equivalent is at $415.50 for rack rate for a Family of 5. At $415.50 per night and 30% discount with NO KIDS, Free Dining is a net loss of almost $800.

Even with 2 Adults and 2 Kids you're now in the hole $264.00.

Alternatively if one of your kids turns 10, with $415.50 a night and 30% discount so you're not 3 adults and 2 kids, the Free Dining Offer is $50 more expensive.

HOWEVER!!

The one caveat here is Hopper Tickets. If you were going to upgrade to hoppers ANYWAY for your trip, you can put $475 of savings under the Free Dining banner in every scenario.

Weren't getting hoppers = have more kids get more savings.
Were going to get hoppers = typical family of 4 will save some cash.

The value prop gets better in ever scenario the cheaper your room. Disney Kids scale Free Dining better than any offer.

NOT INCLUDED IN CALCULATIONS: Refillable mug and potential cost of soda/coffee you would otherwise have to purchase.

We did a ton of calculating before choosing free dining for our August trip (they were offering room and free dining at the time). It came out really close with free dining winning by a margin of about 200. We even considered what we’ll have to pay in tips. The 200 margin plus getting park hopping made it the better choice. We usually would avoid park hopping to save money, but now we’ll get extra Epcot time after an AK day without spending more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Domestic park attendance increased 6% in FY 2023 over 2022. A bit interesting, DLR is working overtime.

Anything about those dates stand out?

How was it in 2018?

Was at DAK/Epcot last night... surprised to see DAK 1-day priced at $159 when attendance was so low.

I’d be less surprised if I woke up tomorrow with my head Sewn to the carpet

TDO's "Quest for More Money" right now:

Another 4 "enticements" (Florida resident, AP, and all guests room deals, plus free dining for Disney Visa cardholders), but yet they still haven't pulled the lever they need to pull if they were serious about getting people through the gates. An interesting strategy.

lol…surely you’re not suggesting they get serious and crawl back to their most loyal customers? The “undesirables”

Not that you'd know, but I'd love to find out just how many rooms are currently blocked out. And how long they'll be blocked out.

As it stands, today one could book a week-long stay from November 23-30 at almost anywhere (DVC included, only Poly and FW are unavailable for the regular resorts, Riviera/BLT/BR/Poly villas for DVC). Or a week-long stay from December 21-28 basically anywhere on property except FW cabins and campsites. Everything is fine.

Having rooms off the rack in April is unfathomable

Free Dining is a bigger saver than a 20-25% discount for a 5th sleeper at a moderate for a family of 5.

Depends on how many mirrors and how much smoke you have to use

I think it depends on how you use the dining plan. For us, it's a loss every time. We have never gotten full value out of getting it. We have used it in the past for pre-pay abilities and to budget. But we lost money on it.

Sure…loaded up on $65 buffets will look awesome…until you have to go to the bathroom

The percentage discount versus "free dining" debate is becoming a timeless debate, like whether the chicken or the egg was first.

It really does depend on how it's used, the price level of the resort, etc.

The debate will continue…the actual truth is pretty consistent

What's funny is that Disney isn't even pretending it does anymore. I took a look at the website, and basically they say the "value" is in saving you time on your vacation from "meal budgeting". They do say for 3-9 year-olds it saves up to 20% on kids meals...

They dropped the pretense quietly awhile ago…just like dvc. You’re not “saving”…you’re being locked in

 

[BrianLo]

Anything about those dates stand out?

How was it in 2018?

What stands out is exactly what I said. WDW attendance was down over that period. Disneyland must be doing quite well for the domestic figures to post gains. I suspect Disneyland has rebounded to pre-pandemic attendance, WDW as a whole has not.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

What stands out is exactly what I said. WDW attendance was down over that period. Disneyland must be doing quite well for the domestic figures to post gains. I suspect Disneyland has rebounded to pre-pandemic attendance, WDW as a whole has not.

Disneyland was absolutely packed most of 2023, they slowed enough toward the end of the year to convince them to offer cheap kids tickets though, that kept the parks packed for the beginning of 2024 but we noticed after that ended our trip last month was the first time in 2 years the parks felt emptier than they did in 2019.

DL is facing some attendance issues also, they’re just a year behind Orlando because they reopened later and their kids discount bought them a few more months, the fact Keys are back on sale is a pretty significant sign attendance is starting to dip even at DL.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What stands out is exactly what I said. WDW attendance was down over that period. Disneyland must be doing quite well for the domestic figures to post gains. I suspect Disneyland has rebounded to pre-pandemic attendance, WDW as a whole has not.

2022 was the famed “revenge” travel year…Disney spun that wdw attendance dropped for that reason in 2023-24

The odd part is the rest of travel…everywhere…increased in 23-24…so what gives?

Also…Disneyland still has its passholder base…wdw told its to “go away…” and it hasn’t recovered.

Oh…right…the magnets