Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Dranth]

My understanding of the original goal of FastPass was that they wanted guests out of lines and in shops and restaurants spending money. There weren't the overcrowding problems in 1999 like there are today (I certainly cannot recall 2 hour waits for anything outside of what were the busiest times, like Easter week, Thanksgiving week, and Christmas to New Years), but I know it was still a concern. Maybe we split the difference and call the two goals 1A and 1B.

Fair enough.

 

[mysto]

My understanding of the original goal of FastPass was that they wanted guests out of lines and in shops and restaurants spending money. There weren't the overcrowding problems in 1999 like there are today (I certainly cannot recall 2 hour waits for anything outside of what were the busiest times, like Easter week, Thanksgiving week, and Christmas to New Years), but I know it was still a concern. Maybe we split the difference and call the two goals 1A and 1B.

My understanding is that the gigantic IT project itself was the goal. They wanted to keep up with the times and more easily collect data on their guests to feed their shiny trendy new AI. Imagine the board at cocktail parties bragging about how their robots are going to "print money".

As usual the real world impact to guests or the business is an afterthought. These people are exempt from gravity.

 

[flynnibus]

For FP+ yes. That helped justify some of the massive spend on the infrastructure updates but I don't remember that for original FP. I am sure it was still a factor, just not the only or main one as was claimed in the other post.

But it was... the roll out of FP was massive. Reworking queues everywhere, new tech, new staff, etc. It's been so long people take it for granted now, but it was a massive retrofit.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

The increased cost of Disney has outpaced other areas, but it was starting from a rather expensive level to start with

Though in the past you also got more from what you spent (from longer park hours to Magical Express, etc) so feels like a bit of a double whammy for Disney putting it even further out of reach for many

But definitely wasn't "cheap" to start with

 

[Disstevefan1]

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

TWDC makes decisions with guest satisfaction in mind?

Hmm.... Could have fooled me.

 

[NJFam]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

I disagree. There was a time when it was accessible to everyone. My family did not have a lot of money growing up but we still went. We did not stay on property, but we went probably 5 years in a row. Years later I went with my boyfriend. We were only 22 and were young and broke really but were able to afford a stay in a newly-opened Caribbean Beach and a 5-day Park Hopper, ate at a sit down restaurant every night, did not need reservations. Went again probably 8 years later and took a new boyfriend and stayed at a newly-opened Dixie Landings (aka Port Orleans Riverside) and could still afford it but we had to cut a day off the initial visit so we could add a park hopper plus (water parks) on and stay in budget, ate mostly at the food court/counter service. Went on our honeymoon and was able to stay at Y&B. A trip to an island would have been less expensive but that's what we wanted to do as part our 2-week honeymoon, very thankful we had those wedding checks. Fast forward and took our kids, stayed in Port Orleans Riverside with a park hopper and water park option, and used the free "fast pass" system to get on rides without the long wait. Really started feeling it by then. That's when we noticed the nickel and diming starting (like the chips in the souvenir cups so you don't refill your drink too much). The trip was just so expensive it became above our budget and we were not able to take them again, cruises to islands were less expensive so that is what we did. Didn't go again for 15 years and found it so outrageously expensive comparatively. We stayed at the Beach Club in a room that was shamefully worn down for $500/night off-season (paid for a view and literally the view was a tree, there was no view of anything). Made reservations months in advance, got an app to plan the park visits. So much construction in Epcot, walls everywhere, food prices through the roof, genie+ expense just to get on rides, getting up at 7 am not get in a virtual queue. Magic officially GONE. Went on a family trip with my kids this year (who are now young adults and one is engaged) and the costs were out of control. Now that kids are "gown and almost flown" and we have the money to go, we may or may not because the magic we pay for is seemingly gone, and any value is gone with it. They have priced out a lot of young families, and turned off families with money. Will people still go? Sure; but my story is an example of how it has changed from the 70's. It was definitely accessible to many that just can't do it now.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Ignoring inflation and just pricing out Hotel + Tickets it's gotten more expensive, substantially over the last 10+ years.

For sure but the notion that Disneyland was always accessible "to everyone" is exaggerated.

A lot of people found it more affordable back in the day, of course, but their blinders stop them from seeing there were always people on the outside then as well.

A lot of people who assert that "Disneyland should be affordable to everyone" really mean that "Disneyland should always be affordable for ME and MY situation".

 

[Disstevefan1]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

Some Families are being priced out - Always been true

Disney was accessible to everyone - Always been false.

It will always depend on a families size and disposable income. Some families income can keep up with the Disney price price increases, some cant.

And always remember, there is no such thing as inflation or recession for the folks with MONEY.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

yes… i got everything i wrote to you out of just the title. You’re quite the researcher!

How hard is it to grasp that just because the idea isn’t deadend, that doesn’t mean the attraction itself is NOT out of date FOR THE CURRENT AUDIENCE . You kept trying to claim the attractions were not dated because you believe they could have been saved by refreshes or reboots. Hence calling them dated a myth. When to the question of ‘were they outdated?’ - that belief they could have been updated is irrelevant because as they stood… and as they were experienced by actual guests at the time… they were out of date and something had to be done. They needed overhaul- that makes them out of date. What path you take with the overhaul doesn’t change the fact they needed overhaul to start.

if you took a 1970s sitcom or drama and tried to show it on primetime TV right now, it would feel dated and current audiences would not relate the same as those did when the show was created. It doesn’t matter that the core ideas of family dynamics, or humor, haven’t changed and the show could be rebooted into something more moden. The show as it is… is inadequate because it’s dated. Dated tech, dated visuals, dated lingo, dated styles, dated environments.

The same was for many of the 83 FW attractions by the early 90s.

The impact of transportation on civilization is a timeless idea - but world of motion as it stood was not timeless. That’s no myth - that’s reality.

I still have no idea what you're trying to argue. The specific thesis of the video addressed people who continued parroting that Epcot was outdated because technology had caught up to the present when the attractions themselves were based on specific subjects and mostly covered history. I agree with you that the presentation was dated but you can still keep the core ride intact without completely replacing it with something else. Spaceship Earth and Living with the Land I think prove that.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

People are more likely to be priced out now compared to the past, but what can you do?

The population has grown.

If Disney were to be truly priced in a way that anyone could go, they'd have to ration admission. They'd be sold out more often.

Disney can't be expected to grow in a way to accommodate everyone at a certain price point.

There are other options for people who can't afford the "best of the best" in theme park entertainment,

 

[DCBaker]

Here's a look at some posted wait times around 12:45pm today.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Here's a look at some posted wait times around 12:45pm today.

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This tells me its MOBBED. Ahhhh . . . WDW is indeed back to normal.

Is it time for me to bring back my old saying?

TWDC and its theme parks are......... Invincible

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My understanding of the original goal of FastPass was that they wanted guests out of lines and in shops and restaurants spending money. There weren't the overcrowding problems in 1999 like there are today (I certainly cannot recall 2 hour waits for anything outside of what were the busiest times, like Easter week, Thanksgiving week, and Christmas to New Years), but I know it was still a concern. Maybe we split the difference and call the two goals 1A and 1B.

This was the goal…99%
1% was crowd control and labor efficiency

“Guest satisfaction” was 0%…back then they watched what you spent and if you came back? The rest was self explanatory

 

[Drdcm]

Here's a look at some posted wait times around 12:45pm today.

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That looks like it would be very little fun.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This tells me its MOBBED. Ahhhh . . . WDW is indeed back to normal.

Is it time for me to bring back my old saying?

TWDC and its theme parks are......... Invincible

Need the old Main Street webcam…not screen shots of “genie mcsellins”

Check the shops and restaurants too

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That looks like it would be very little fun.

But Bob got $5 back on his stock…he’s only trailing Chapek’s low number by $7 now

 

[HauntedPirate]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

We were firmly in the middle of "middle class" but with some extra work and savings, we were able to go every other year for over a decade (but never staying on-site, because back then it was just the deluxe resorts) on the back of a larger family vacation. If it wasn't accessible to a family like ours, then the entire model the resort was built on would have imploded long ago. Or is that just a "false notion"?

 

[lentesta]

This slide is a pitch from Food and Beverage division as an extension. Not the reason Fastpass moved to Fastpass Plus. That was more to utilize the tech and further increase revenue.

As I said, nothing in the 100-page FP+ presentation to Disney's BOD said anything about revenue, other than that one slide.

I've read this entire presentation multiple times. The bulk of the justification for FP+ really was guest satisfaction.

 

[HauntedPirate]

But Bob got $5 back on his stock…he’s only trailing Chapek’s low number by $7 now

The stock has regained $5/share??? When will Bob's sainthood be officially announced?

 

[lentesta]

I know what you are saying. what do guests in line not do?

I remember the surveys given when they justified it with this. I was there. If a gues trides at least three to four attractions a day they are satisficed. So the trade off was that the average guest would be able to do that. Surveys are notorious for management getting the results and answers they want.

The approval was that what do guests do when they are not in line?

Let us phrase it this way, what do more satisfied guests do than unhappy ones?

Answer: Spend more money.

I understand the reasoning. I'm saying specifically that no internal document I've ever seen, mentions revenue as the reason for FP+.

Do you have a document that says this? Or maybe an earnings call comment before they launched FP+ where they specifically said "we're doing this mostly for revenue?"

Because if they didn't tell the board it was for revenue, and they didn't tell stockholders it was for revenue, and they said it was for something else, we kinda have to believe it was for the something else, right?