Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[celluloid]

I can see where you're coming from on that.

I have the FP+ deck that the board of directors saw before approving that project. The entire project's justification really seems to be entirely based on improved guest satisfaction and park ops efficiencies with virtual queues.

In fact, the word "revenue" only appears once in the document, in a discussion about ... refillable sodas:
View attachment 749328

This slide is a pitch from Food and Beverage division as an extension. Not the reason Fastpass moved to Fastpass Plus. That was more to utilize the tech and further increase revenue. Fatpass Plus was already happening as it was Fastpass going digital. This part of the presentation was essentially a pitch of what Food and Beverage could gain from themselves going digital. This is why you see it labeled an extension, rather than a pitch of what Fatpass Plus is. Two different things. Fatpass Plus itself was not what was being pitched here. Having guests virtual queue was already a money making thing since Fastpass started in the late 90s. That was not under approval and this was food and beverage pitching a further slice of the next gen tech.

It also furthers my point earlier that they could put vending in the queue, but there is better revenue in not.

That is really the issue here and back to my point. Disney sees more value in people walking around and spending money once they virtually wait.

The Food and Beverage put that in there to increase their potential at getting a yes.

 

[el_super]

Fast pass was created to get people to spend more money because they don't spend as much with all that time in line.

No.

I don't have access to the article anymore, I don't think, but way back around the time Fastpass came out (99/00) Paul Pressler did an interview with the OC Business Journal (the one in California) where he sort of outlined his management philosophy taking on the role as Disney Parks Chairman. When he took over the two biggest complaints being levied against the parks were 1) it was too expensive and 2) the lines were too long. He worked on 1 by introducing new ticketing methods and discounts and 2) by introducing Fastpass.

It's easy to see Fastpass as sort of a weird short-sighted mistake, but I don't doubt that their intended goal was increased guest satisfaction via reduced wait time. Any other ancillary effects were just a happy bonus.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

if you think that you learned nothing about the issue with your choice of words. Stick to the clcikbait i guess

If you're describing my titles as clickbait, then you're really just telling me that you're the kind of person who comments on articles while only reading the title. I suppose that makes more sense as to why you tried arguing my own points back to me.

 

[celluloid]

No.

I don't have access to the article anymore, I don't think, but way back around the time Fastpass came out (99/00) Paul Pressler did an interview with the OC Business Journal (the one in California) where he sort of outlined his management philosophy taking on the role as Disney Parks Chairman. When he took over the two biggest complaints being levied against the parks were 1) it was too expensive and 2) the lines were too long. He worked on 1 by introducing new ticketing methods and discounts and 2) by introducing Fastpass.

It's easy to see Fastpass as sort of a weird short-sighted mistake, but I don't doubt that their intended goal was increased guest satisfaction via reduced wait time. Any other ancillary effects were just a happy bonus.

Admission and guest spending total are not the same thing.

You can just say no if you would like.

But Paul saying things are not the same as ancillary money spent.

The guest spent more time in the park not standing in line, thus spending money.

A president of course, whether in 2000 or now is going to say "it is to increase guest satisfaction" becuase that has to be a component. The same way leadership will say ILL was introduced because it pleases our guest's satisfaction. It is a nice say of saying "there is a market for it."

 

[Dranth]

Fast pass was created to get people to spend more money because they don't spend as much with all that time in line

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

 

[Corylancaster]

Just an anecdote from my trip last week (which I know was a holiday week)...I used to always travel to WDW the week of Columbus Day since it is when my teacher wife has fall break, this is the first time we have ever felt like this was a truly busy week. On Wed 10/11 (the only non party weeknight) MK Hit capacity at 8pm for the fireworks. We were basically ushered out of the park down one of the bypasses, after dinner at Skipper Canteen as the hub and main street were completely full (we were leaving anyway since our kid was asleep). People were still trying to hop over and they were turning them away at security and the tapstiles as we were walking out. Cast was telling them they could not get in until more people left the park, not sure if that is normal or not? Also while we were waiting to take the boat from POFQ to DS on Friday the Captain told us to plan to need at least an hour wait on the dock coming back based on the day before. He said that DS was absolutely swamped with people on Thursday and if the crowd got that bad it would be an awful wait for anybody with small children.

 

[Ayla]

Literally no one has said that, but you keep doing you.

Right? lol The only reason we could afford our first trip was because it was piggy-backed onto a work conference for DH. His company encouraged people to bring their families and stay beyond the conference to visit Disney/Universal/SeaWorld/beach. They paid for his airfare, our hotel and the rental car. There is no way we could have afforded a week-long Disney trip in 2006 without that (greatly appreciated) benefit.

 

[celluloid]

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

I know what you are saying. what do guests in line not do?

I remember the surveys given when they justified it with this. I was there. If a gues trides at least three to four attractions a day they are satisficed. So the trade off was that the average guest would be able to do that. Surveys are notorious for management getting the results and answers they want.

The approval was that what do guests do when they are not in line?

Let us phrase it this way, what do more satisfied guests do than unhappy ones?

Answer: Spend more money.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Just an anecdote from my trip last week (which I know was a holiday week)...I used to always travel to WDW the week of Columbus Day since it is when my teacher wife has fall break, this is the first time we have ever felt like this was a truly busy week. On Wed 10/11 (the only non party weeknight) MK Hit capacity at 8pm for the fireworks. We were basically ushered out of the park down one of the bypasses, after dinner at Skipper Canteen as the hub and main street were completely full (we were leaving anyway since our kid was asleep). People were still trying to hop over and they were turning them away at security and the tapstiles as we were walking out. Cast was telling them they could not get in until more people left the park, not sure if that is normal or not? Also while we were waiting to take the boat from POFQ to DS on Friday the Captain told us to plan to need at least an hour wait on the dock coming back based on the day before. He said that DS was absolutely swamped with people on Thursday and if the crowd got that bad it would be an awful wait for anybody with small children.

It’s interesting. It makes sense they we’re turning away the hoppers (they already have their money) I wonder if they would turn away a person trying to enter with a day ticket to the MK?

If they were using the bypasses, that usually means it’s is truly crowded and not a fake capacity number hit.

Well I guess attendance isn’t really down and that is false propaganda.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

It's definitely evolved over time - when it first started it was only for a handful of major rides that were getting 90+ waits consistently ... but then it became part of the value of with a ticket and they expanded it to more things so more people could get FP for at least something, etc. ... but then saw they could monetize it

Personally I wish they would go back to something like the original intent - even if there was a cost. Have like a dozen or so rides across the 4 parks that are ILL, and that is it. Let the rides that aren't designed for having a FP queue and are designed for constant loading to just do that

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Just an anecdote from my trip last week (which I know was a holiday week)...I used to always travel to WDW the week of Columbus Day since it is when my teacher wife has fall break, this is the first time we have ever felt like this was a truly busy week. On Wed 10/11 (the only non party weeknight) MK Hit capacity at 8pm for the fireworks. We were basically ushered out of the park down one of the bypasses, after dinner at Skipper Canteen as the hub and main street were completely full (we were leaving anyway since our kid was asleep). People were still trying to hop over and they were turning them away at security and the tapstiles as we were walking out. Cast was telling them they could not get in until more people left the park, not sure if that is normal or not? Also while we were waiting to take the boat from POFQ to DS on Friday the Captain told us to plan to need at least an hour wait on the dock coming back based on the day before. He said that DS was absolutely swamped with people on Thursday and if the crowd got that bad it would be an awful wait for anybody with small children.

Interesting to see - I hadn't seen anyone else report this but I think goes to show how in demand evenings at MK get on the few nights a week that don't have parties as only chance guests get to see the regular fireworks show

 

[celluloid]

It’s interesting. It makes sense they we’re turning away the hoppers (they already have their money) I wonder if they would turn away a person trying to enter with a day ticket to the MK?

If they were using the bypasses, that usually means it’s is truly crowded and not a fake capacity number hit.

Well I guess attendance isn’t really down and that is false propaganda.

This has been happening for a few years with Not so Scary Dates increasing and the full MK days becoming crowded as many day tickets do not want to spend a day in MK without fireworks or more hours for park operations into the evening/night. The amount of people are real, but the increase is choice of park. A few to five thousand people(often more) going "we will spend our MK day on that day when we can have the full day" really adds up and makes the mass exodus at the end of the night that much more of a bottleneck as well as there are less MK nights in the week for day guests. Pair that with the holiday weekend and...yeah.

Part of design to get the most out of an operating day while making a lot on the other, typically week days you can charge for a park day"twice" with a hard ticket event.

 

[Corylancaster]

It’s interesting. It makes sense they we’re turning away the hoppers (they already have their money) I wonder if they would turn away a person trying to enter with a day ticket to the MK?

If they were using the bypasses, that usually means it’s is truly crowded and not a fake capacity number hit.

Well I guess attendance isn’t really down and that is false propaganda.

I did hear one person say that they had been there earlier in the day and only left for dinner at their resort, but they told them they would have to wait there. I'm sure it is just because the hub and main street were full and there wasn't anywhere for them to actually go at that moment.

 

[flynnibus]

If you're describing my titles as clickbait, then you're really just telling me that you're the kind of person who comments on articles while only reading the title.

yes… i got everything i wrote to you out of just the title. You’re quite the researcher!

How hard is it to grasp that just because the idea isn’t deadend, that doesn’t mean the attraction itself is NOT out of date FOR THE CURRENT AUDIENCE . You kept trying to claim the attractions were not dated because you believe they could have been saved by refreshes or reboots. Hence calling them dated a myth. When to the question of ‘were they outdated?’ - that belief they could have been updated is irrelevant because as they stood… and as they were experienced by actual guests at the time… they were out of date and something had to be done. They needed overhaul- that makes them out of date. What path you take with the overhaul doesn’t change the fact they needed overhaul to start.

if you took a 1970s sitcom or drama and tried to show it on primetime TV right now, it would feel dated and current audiences would not relate the same as those did when the show was created. It doesn’t matter that the core ideas of family dynamics, or humor, haven’t changed and the show could be rebooted into something more moden. The show as it is… is inadequate because it’s dated. Dated tech, dated visuals, dated lingo, dated styles, dated environments.

The same was for many of the 83 FW attractions by the early 90s.

The impact of transportation on civilization is a timeless idea - but world of motion as it stood was not timeless. That’s no myth - that’s reality.

 

[flynnibus]

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

It’s been widely covered that internally the move was pitched and justified by the potential of getting guests out of lines and into conversion opportunities at merch/f&b.

This is not an either/or thing - its how you convince the company to spend millions to make a fundamental shift in operations and guest experience. It wasn’t purely out of goodness of their heart. It had commercial motivations too. It wasn’t just something… ‘discovered’… it was part of the idea.

Genie on the other hand… was more about efficiency of resources and monetizing what the rest of the industry had already crossed over. Trying to steer customer behavior to optimize utilization and cash in on money left on the table.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Literally no one has said that, but you keep doing you.

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

 

[NJFam]

Let’s see:
- New attractions are notoriously difficult to get on (Rise, Cosmic Rewind, Tron)
- Park reservations have given them the reputation of being “overly complicated” to visit.
- Multiple parks are under construction (EPCOT since 2019, TBA in MK until 2024)
- They’ve given themselves a bigger reputation for nickel and dining with increased prices and Genie +
- Pent up demand from Covid shutdowns has mostly subsided
- Lack of new additions on the horizon

Yeah I’m not surprised

We don't want to go to "WallCot" again until the construction walls are down. We've been there twice in 3 years and the walls are so large, and there are so many of them, it's a huge disappointment. Definitely kills some magic.

 

[JD80]

It is a common refrain that Disney has gotten more expensive to the point that "average families are being priced out".

There is a false notion that Disney was always accessible to everyone. It's not true, but it sounds good and helps paint Disney in a negative light.

Ignoring inflation and just pricing out Hotel + Tickets it's gotten more expensive, substantially over the last 10+ years.

 

[Dranth]

It’s been widely covered that internally the move was pitched and justified by the potential of getting guests out of lines and into conversion opportunities at merch/f&b.

This is not an either/or thing - its how you convince the company to spend millions to make a fundamental shift in operations and guest experience. It wasn’t purely out of goodness of their heart. It had commercial motivations too. It wasn’t just something… ‘discovered’… it was part of the idea.

Genie on the other hand… was more about efficiency of resources and monetizing what the rest of the industry had already crossed over. Trying to steer customer behavior to optimize utilization and cash in on money left on the table.

For FP+ yes. That helped justify some of the massive spend on the infrastructure updates but I don't remember that for original FP. I am sure it was still a factor, just not the only or main one as was claimed in the other post.

 

[HauntedPirate]

No, it was done with guest satisfaction in mind to address the complaints of long lines at the big attractions. Extra spending was a side benefit, not the main goal. I'm sure that has changed over time but it isn't how it started.

My understanding of the original goal of FastPass was that they wanted guests out of lines and in shops and restaurants spending money. There weren't the overcrowding problems in 1999 like there are today (I certainly cannot recall 2 hour waits for anything outside of what were the busiest times, like Easter week, Thanksgiving week, and Christmas to New Years), but I know it was still a concern. Maybe we split the difference and call the two goals 1A and 1B.