Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Splash4eva]

Yes - because the heat wave that was affecting the south at the time was impacting locals, day trippers, and other near term travelers… in addition to modifying people’s activities who were there on long planned vacations.

Literally miami is -still- in an oppressive stretch of heat and armchair qbs are like ‘its summer… duh’.
Mget your head out of your rear and take a look at the abnormal weather that was happening in most of Florida at the time… and is still crushing southern and sw fl

No need for insults based on opinion not fact but i was just in Naples and it was packed and basically 95 every day

 

[flynnibus]

No need for insults based on opinion not fact but i was just in Naples and it was packed and basically 95 every day

google ‘anecdotal’

And what i said wasn’t opinion - the severe weather in Florida has not been normal. The people that continue to mock it as if it’s always this way are the ones making fools of themselves.

 

[Jrb1979]

google ‘anecdotal’

And what i said wasn’t opinion - the severe weather in Florida has not been normal. The people that continue to mock it as if it’s always this way are the ones making fools of themselves.

It's not normal and it's playing a factor but not a major factor. I do believe price is playing the biggest part. They raised prices when Unprecedented Demand was going on and it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

 

[flynnibus]

It's not normal and it's playing a factor but not a major factor. I do believe price is playing the biggest part. They raised prices when Unprecedented Demand was going on and it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Yup as many people have said… more than one thing in play here. Yet instead of embracing that… people want to mock factors are if they are made up…. Creating false realities like the only people that could make the place crowded or not decided to be there ages before.

It’s a dead horse at this point. The pendulum will swing and everyone will be back to bemoaning crowds when it impacts their visit.

 

[Thepuma]

I know more than a handful of locals who did not go to the parks (they had originally planned to) on 7/4 because it was too hot.

But is this people who would normally not go when it's hot anyway - or those that have specifically this year decided its 2 degrees hotter and that last and so have cancelled their visit accordingly?

Out of every thousand people who haven't gone this year, I'd bet only 1 or 2 are because of the 'heat'.

I get the distinct impression the heat/taylor swift/politics are being used as a convenient cop out as to why numbers are down, rather than the real reason.

I mean...its so much easier for Mr Iger to say ' numbers are down due to heat'....rather than "we have made some terrible business decisions the last few years regarding prices, Genie+, park reservations, removing most resort benefits etc etc and it's finally come back to bit us on the a55"

 

[Thepuma]

It's not normal and it's playing a factor but not a major factor. I do believe price is playing the biggest part. They raised prices when Unprecedented Demand was going on and it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

100% this.....blaming heat and taylor swift is just a red herring.

 

[Thepuma]

Yup as many people have said… more than one thing in play here. Yet instead of embracing that… people want to mock factors are if they are made up…. Creating false realities like the only people that could make the place crowded or not decided to be there ages before.

It’s a dead horse at this point. The pendulum will swing and everyone will be back to bemoaning crowds when it impacts their visit.

Not really....some of the reasons people are quoting ( heat, taylor swift etc) are probably making up 1 or 2% of the people not going this time. While there are other major major reasons that make up a significantly bigger percentage of absenteeism this year. Focusing on the 1% is kind of burying of heads in sand.

 

[Thepuma]

Yes - because the heat wave that was affecting the south at the time was impacting locals, day trippers, and other near term travelers… in addition to modifying people’s activities who were there on long planned vacations.

Literally miami is -still- in an oppressive stretch of heat and armchair qbs are like ‘its summer… duh’.
Mget your head out of your rear and take a look at the abnormal weather that was happening in most of Florida at the time… and is still crushing southern and sw fl

I fail to believe anyone can hand on heart say they think a 'significant' amount of people aren't going to Disney in summer because of the heat.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But is this people who would normally not go when it's hot anyway - or those that have specifically this year decided its 2 degrees hotter and that last and so have cancelled their visit accordingly?

Out of every thousand people who haven't gone this year, I'd bet only 1 or 2 are because of the 'heat'.

I get the distinct impression the heat/taylor swift/politics are being used as a convenient cop out as to why numbers are down, rather than the real reason.

I mean...its so much easier for Mr Iger to say ' numbers are down due to heat'....rather than "we have made some terrible business decisions the last few years regarding prices, Genie+, park reservations, removing most resort benefits etc etc and it's finally come back to bit us on the a55"

I definitely get why Iger would not focus on the porr decisions he made and point to other things - like how he talked about how Florida op ning before other areas shifting travel patterns and people now going other places that have more recently fully reopened.

I don't think anyone in here is saying the excessive heat has contributed more that a couple of percentage points, like literally no one. Did it have a contributing factor - especially July 4th weekend? yes it did, is it a main or driving factor? Absolutely not. But everything hing does add up - and that is all anyone is saying

 

[JD80]

I'm willing to bet that the extreme heat and the heat advisory for the time around July 4th could potentially suppress people being in the parks by 5-15% (people not going at all, or leaving early, or skipping).

Up here in Maryland, when there was a government warning about air quality due to the Canadian fires plenty of people stayed indoors. When the local governments are saying be careful, extreme heat you will get suppression of outdoor activity.

 

[zappy]

So I stayed at the Swan & Dolphin (Swan FTW) earlier this month from 7/2 - 7/6 and at check-in the gentlemen next to me had four guests in his room. The front desk worker offered him an additional room to spread his party out for only $100 a night, I turned to him and said that's one h!@# of a deal. He said he'll take it if his wife says yes lol.....she said yes. I don't think that offer is out there if they're anywhere close to being sold out. I expected big crowds because the of the holiday week (yes i know it was hottttt) but we were able to move around the parks and transportation systems without any real congestion.....now if only it could be like that during the cooler months in FL.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Weather can absolutely impact daily attendance. Last time I was at WDW the first day had torrential rain. People stayed away. Flight of Passage was a walk-on all day. I had no plans to be in a park that day but still regret not taking advantage.

Which is to say, weather will cause people to adjust their schedule and plans for the day. It doesn't necessarily mean much in terms of general attendance patterns. Once the rain let up the next day the parks were at normal crowd levels.

 

[AEfx]

But is this people who would normally not go when it's hot anyway - or those that have specifically this year decided its 2 degrees hotter and that last and so have cancelled their visit accordingly?

Out of every thousand people who haven't gone this year, I'd bet only 1 or 2 are because of the 'heat'.

I get the distinct impression the heat/taylor swift/politics are being used as a convenient cop out as to why numbers are down, rather than the real reason.

I mean...its so much easier for Mr Iger to say ' numbers are down due to heat'....rather than "we have made some terrible business decisions the last few years regarding prices, Genie+, park reservations, removing most resort benefits etc etc and it's finally come back to bit us on the a55"

Exactly. You wouldn't personally catch me dead at WDW between the end of May and September, ever, but the people who planned vacations in advance aren't deciding all of a sudden not to go because it's a little hotter than normal. It's always sweltering in WDW in the summer, it's expected - and I just don't think huge swaths of people are cancelling vacations last minute because of it (particularly domestically where there is record heat across the country).

What's going on is exactly as you state - for years folks like myself on these boards have been warning this was going to happen. They finally priced the experience too high, took too much away, and expect too much bull crap and the audience willing to put up with all that has fizzled. The post-pandemic travel boom staved it off for a bit, but the chickens have come home to roost.

The spectacular failure of Galactic Starcruiser was not an anomaly - it was the canary in the coal mine. And people certainly weren't not booking that almost entirely indoor experience because it's "too hot outside". It's because Disney finally found the tipping point where the experience has just degraded so much and the prices are so high that they have alienated much of their repeat customer base, leaving them with the "one and done" folks who were part of the post-pandemic boon who just aren't returning.

 

[el_super]

but the people who planned vacations in advance aren't deciding all of a sudden not to go because it's a little hotter than normal.

I think a lot of context is being stripped from these discussions.

Most of the articles/media around the lower crowds were specific to July 4th weekend.
A lot of that was based on wait times in the park being recorded by third parties.

People will absolutely decide to stay inside during hot weather. People who paid money to fly to Florida will absolutely avoid going to the parks and standing in line, when they have access to air conditioning and pools at their resort. This isn't about cancelling vacations so much as it is, why are wait times in the park so much lower at random times during the day.

So yes, in that context, it absolutely makes sense to say that the weather is playing a part in shifting wait times and demand and generating the comments about lower crowds.

They finally priced the experience too high, took too much away, and expect too much bull crap and the audience willing to put up with all that has fizzled. The post-pandemic travel boom staved it off for a bit, but the chickens have come home to roost.

So now that attendance is starting to rebound what is the cause? Strictly discounting?

 

[Grimley1968]

Exactly. You wouldn't personally catch me dead at WDW between the end of May and September, ever, but the people who planned vacations in advance aren't deciding all of a sudden not to go because it's a little hotter than normal. It's always sweltering in WDW in the summer, it's expected - and I just don't think huge swaths of people are cancelling vacations last minute because of it (particularly domestically where there is record heat across the country).

What's going on is exactly as you state - for years folks like myself on these boards have been warning this was going to happen. They finally priced the experience too high, took too much away, and expect too much bull crap and the audience willing to put up with all that has fizzled. The post-pandemic travel boom staved it off for a bit, but the chickens have come home to roost.

The spectacular failure of Galactic Starcruiser was not an anomaly - it was the canary in the coal mine. And people certainly weren't not booking that almost entirely indoor experience because it's "too hot outside". It's because Disney finally found the tipping point where the experience has just degraded so much and the prices are so high that they have alienated much of their repeat customer base, leaving them with the "one and done" folks who were part of the post-pandemic boon who just aren't returning.

My family and I are some of the people who used to go to WDW regularly, once or even twice a year for full vacations until about 2011. Between nostalgia for better times and some decent discounts in the 2010's, we still enjoyed our decreasingly frequent trips there, but the factors you mentioned plus the increasing complexity and stress of a WDW vacation threatened to tip the scale for us into not wanting to return. Now we haven't been there for almost 3 years and have no plans to return soon, because those factors overcame even our immense nostalgia for a Disney vacation. We prefer to be treated better for a lower price, which is now true for just about any other tourist destination, many of which are a closer drive for us. We used to consider WDW to be the best vacation value, but no more. I don't think our experience is unique in this regard.

At this point it would take far more than a percentage off discount to bring us back. Maybe things will change in the long run and it will seem a desirable destination again for us, and I still frequent this site for indications of such a change in favor of guest experience, but unfortunately that kind of news is sparse these days. I do think offering discounts on rooms or even park tickets will alleviate low attendance somewhat in the short term, but for us, long term improvements in the guest experience, in addition to discounts are required before I even consider taking time away from one of the beaches to go back to WDW.

 

[AEfx]

At this point it would take far more than a percentage off discount to bring us back. Maybe things will change in the long run and it will seem a desirable destination again for us, and I still frequent this site for indications of such a change in favor of guest experience, but unfortunately that kind of news is sparse these days. I do think offering discounts on rooms or even park tickets will alleviate low attendance somewhat in the short term, but for us, long term improvements in the guest experience, in addition to discounts are required before I even consider taking time away from one of the beaches to go back to WDW.

I don't in any way, shape, or form think you are anywhere near alone in this.

Posts almost identical have been showing up here, and in other forums, for the past couple or years and were just dismissed as "anecdotal" but the evidence of it being much more than that is clearly mounting.

As you state, it's also going to take more than just a discount, or any one change - it is going to be a hard road back for them to earn back the trust, perception of value, and the willingness people have to put up with things (and the lack of things). They have pretty much crapped their reputation as a magical experience that was worth the $, and that is not going to be something easy for them to recover.

 

[Ayla]

My family and I are some of the people who used to go to WDW regularly, once or even twice a year for full vacations until about 2011. Between nostalgia for better times and some decent discounts in the 2010's, we still enjoyed our decreasingly frequent trips there, but the factors you mentioned plus the increasing complexity and stress of a WDW vacation threatened to tip the scale for us into not wanting to return. Now we haven't been there for almost 3 years and have no plans to return soon, because those factors overcame even our immense nostalgia for a Disney vacation. We prefer to be treated better for a lower price, which is now true for just about any other tourist destination, many of which are a closer drive for us. We used to consider WDW to be the best vacation value, but no more. I don't think our experience is unique in this regard.

At this point it would take far more than a percentage off discount to bring us back. Maybe things will change in the long run and it will seem a desirable destination again for us, and I still frequent this site for indications of such a change in favor of guest experience, but unfortunately that kind of news is sparse these days. I do think offering discounts on rooms or even park tickets will alleviate low attendance somewhat in the short term, but for us, long term improvements in the guest experience, in addition to discounts are required before I even consider taking time away from one of the beaches to go back to WDW.

You aren't alone.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They were in reference to the schmuck in charge of the company.

Bob Iger's excuse for low attendance in July.

Sadly…some were praetorian excuses that haven’t realized their false prophet has been lying to them since day 1…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I could be wrong, but I have no recollection of this ever being done before.

It's an interesting target, too, going after DVC owners since they presumably visit every year or at least often... but are assumed to have the expendable income to pay for it.

Maybe a dynamically priced VIP tour is more palatable for Disney's audience than a Universal-esque Unlimited Express Pass?

In any event, I would have offered this discount maybe to Club Level guests or those staying at the top tier Deluxe resorts.

We'll see how it plays out.

They’re trying to double down on their “whale” theory with dvc

It’s really the ownerships fault though…they went along with the prices tripling in 15 years…so it sent the wrong message to the beaners

It was never worth that much. Not when they started slashing advantages to it…which is where we are now.

“Membership” gets you more upsell pushed. Doesn’t even get the $90 off a $1500 AP anymore

 

[LSLS]

I think a lot of context is being stripped from these discussions.

Most of the articles/media around the lower crowds were specific to July 4th weekend.
A lot of that was based on wait times in the park being recorded by third parties.

People will absolutely decide to stay inside during hot weather. People who paid money to fly to Florida will absolutely avoid going to the parks and standing in line, when they have access to air conditioning and pools at their resort. This isn't about cancelling vacations so much as it is, why are wait times in the park so much lower at random times during the day.

So yes, in that context, it absolutely makes sense to say that the weather is playing a part in shifting wait times and demand and generating the comments about lower crowds.




So now that attendance is starting to rebound what is the cause? Strictly discounting?

Again, it's not based just on third party sites. You have multiple people WHO WERE THERE telling you about it. And telling you about it not just for wait times, but for hotels and dining as well. It was dead, legit the deadest I've seen in decades. Why is it rebounding? No idea, I'm not there to say. Though I'm not sure how you can say using third party wait times does not show it was dead, but it DOES show that it has rebounded now.

But I will die on the hill that the heat was not the reason it was dead (or even a significant reason). Heat could be the reason DHS was 40% lower on the 4th, and it would still be less than their lowest staffing considerations. If you doubled the number of people there, you are still less than half full.