Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

A good portion of guests of USO book it as a secondary destination to WDW. (5 days at WDW, 2 at USO). I think it would be fair to say that the there is a direct correlation between WDW and USO attendance and that WDW attendance (or lack there of) is a direct driver of attendance at USO. Which means that USO as well as other Central Florida attractions are collateral damage from Disney's failures.

That’s always been the dynamic. It’s the Lowe’s/Home Depot effect
But I can see a slim chance they start to separate if Comcast continues what they’re doing

Never would have said that’s possible just a few years ago

I could not disagree more. Universal has been steadily gaining on WDW in attendance over the past couple years. So I guess when Universal’s numbers are good it’s because how fabulous they are but when their numbers are down it’s because they are collateral damage of WDW. Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

You both are right

The problem is Disney is actively yielding market share to younger demographics because of their misguided tactics

The park philosophy/management has been REALLY bad. Ineffective and misguided…

I’ve said if 20,000 times (minimum) on this forum…and the sad part is that is now playing out.
Remember: I NEVER want to be right.

 

[Cliff]

We are now hearing a lot about WDW having slumping attendence. But what about Disneyland? What about the international parks?

Is this issue idolated to "just" WDW...or are other Disney parks seeing this trend too?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We are now hearing a lot about WDW having slumping attendence. But what about Disneyland? What about the international parks?

Is this issue idolated to "just" WDW...or are other Disney parks seeing this trend too?

Disneyland’s attendance has been solid. But remember their demographics are totally different

50% local APs is reasonable on alot of days in Anaheim.

What did the bobs do to APs/Florida residents during the plague?

And guess what the prime benefit of APs are in Orlando?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

We are now hearing a lot about WDW having slumping attendence. But what about Disneyland? What about the international parks?

Is this issue idolated to "just" WDW...or are other Disney parks seeing this trend too?

anecdotally I am seeing reports of Disneyland being slower than normal too but not to the same degree as WDW.

France has the protesting going on so not sure if that is a fair comparison. Not sure about the Asian parks

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If it breaks even, can we call it a C ?

After all, Its ESG grade is A+++

It’s $115-$145 mil below it’s break even point…so that’s not possible

 

[monothingie]

Yeah my only point is that any declining numbers as reflected by low wait times at Universal are not the fault of WDW. If I had a nickel for every time I read on here that WDW’s failures are leading to Universal’s surging gains, my family would be financially set for generations. Yet, you are now arguing that WDW’s failures are what is causing Universal’s poor numbers. Sorry, not buying it.

It's called a split stay.

How many people would make Universal a sole destination vacation, versus how many people's plans to visit Universal are DEPENDENT on if they visit WDW?

Universal right now is at most a 3 day experience. Disney is a week or more that you could be on property and not have to leave.

 

[monothingie]

anecdotally I am seeing reports of Disneyland being slower than normal too but not to the same degree as WDW.

Disneyland is also a more locals centered park, which softens any fluctuations in attendance.

 

[Splash4eva]

Is it possible that people are just tired of a stale product the repeat customers no longer have that fomo bc what is their to miss? I also think this younger generation no longer is basically brainwashed by everything Disney for whatever reason that its not always daddy/mommy i wanna go to WDW. Its plenty of factors and most imo all Disney driven as they have found so many ways to alienate pretty much all their guests one way or the other. Which is a pretty impressive thing to accomplish considering where they once were with guest loyalty

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's called a split stay.

How many people would make Universal a sole destination vacation, versus how many people's plans to visit Universal are DEPENDENT on if they visit WDW?

Universal right now is at most a 3 day experience. Disney is a week or more that you could be on property and not have to leave.

I think that gap has closed some…that’s Justice’s point.

I think there’s a path for it to almost equalize

And this is officially the weirdest “civil” discussion by a triumvirate in the history of this board

No one is actually disagreeing

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

anecdotally I am seeing reports of Disneyland being slower than normal too but not to the same degree as WDW.

France has the protesting going on so not sure if that is a fair comparison. Not sure about the Asian parks

Euro was doing Ok…don’t know if that’s disrupted now

Tokyo is mobbed (as it has been every open day since 1983)

And the Chinese couldn’t care less and are attending in Moderate numbers…cause it will never change

 

[Touchdown]

It's called a split stay.

How many people would make Universal a sole destination vacation, versus how many people's plans to visit Universal are DEPENDENT on if they visit WDW?

Universal right now is at most a 3 day experience. Disney is a week or more that you could be on property and not have to leave.

I spend a full week at Universal, or do 5 days + 1 day at Sea World. I hardly ever mix WDW with Universal. So it’s not impossible there are more like me. Not to mention, once Epic opens, my factions ranks will greatly increase.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Is it possible that people are just tired of a stale product the repeat customers no longer have that fomo bc what is their to miss? I also think this younger generation no longer is basically brainwashed by everything Disney for whatever reason that its not always daddy/mommy i wanna go to WDW. Its plenty of factors and most imo all Disney driven as they have found so many ways to alienate pretty much all their guests one way or the other. Which is a pretty impressive thing to accomplish considering where they once were with guest loyalty

I mean, if you look at what's coming to WDW in the next few years, it isn't super interesting. Not counting the blue sky concepts. Only what was officially announced.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is it possible that people are just tired of a stale product the repeat customers no longer have that fomo bc what is their to miss? I also think this younger generation no longer is basically brainwashed by everything Disney for whatever reason that its not always daddy/mommy i wanna go to WDW. Its plenty of factors and most imo all Disney driven as they have found so many ways to alienate pretty much all their guests one way or the other. Which is a pretty impressive thing to accomplish considering where they once were with guest loyalty

It’s possible…

But cultivating the repeat customer is exaclty how wdw attendance was built. It It was strategy from 1965 to 2005

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I spend a full week at Universal, or do 5 days + 1 day at Sea World. I hardly ever mix WDW with Universal. So it’s not impossible there are more like me. Not to mention, once Epic opens, my factions ranks will greatly increase.

will be fascinating to see how Epic universe changes vacation patterns. Especially if the hotel pricing stays well below that of Disney (which also will be interesting to see what happens there)

Even people who did split stays may flip it so the majority of time is at Universal or even just stay at Universal the whole time and uber over to Disney for the day

I know as a family of 5 those family rooms at Endless Summer are intriguing

 

[Splash4eva]

I mean, if you look at what's coming to WDW in the next few years, it isn't super interesting. Not counting the blue sky concepts. Only what was officially announced.

Officially announced means nothing nowadays lol…
And what really looks interesting? This Moana themed que? Tiana overlay? (No chance of it ever coming close to being as good as Splash)
Lets face it. They have far from hit Home Runs lately.

 

[Splash4eva]

It’s possible…

But cultivating the repeat customer is exaclty how wdw attendance was built. It It was strategy from 1965 to 2005

Agreed and when your product becomes stale and outdated and when you have reduced hours and entertainment and to me a HUGE problem now is NO parade. To me that along with fireworks are what makes the perfect ending to a MK day along with a Disney trip…

 

[Smugpugmug]

Officially announced means nothing nowadays lol…
And what really looks interesting? This Moana themed que? Tiana overlay? (No chance of it ever coming close to being as good as Splash)
Lets face it. They have far from hit Home Runs lately.

That's what I mean. Neither of those would entice me into booking a trip. What's being built at Epic Universe looks way more interesting to me.

 

[drizgirl]

The balancing problem for Disney is filling both the parks and the hotels. If you increase costs, less people go but you may have a higher spending point per guest. But with less people going, you have less hotels filled. I wish we could track hotel occupancy per resort.

Which continues to get harder as they add more rooms.

 

[drizgirl]

What about people who do resort only stays? Same results?

Not likely a significant enough number to matter.

 

[JusticeDisney]

It's called a split stay.

How many people would make Universal a sole destination vacation, versus how many people's plans to visit Universal are DEPENDENT on if they visit WDW?

Universal right now is at most a 3 day experience. Disney is a week or more that you could be on property and not have to leave.

If that were truly the case, then Universal would not be gaining on WDW as fast as they are.