Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[TheMaxRebo]

It depends on how you measure the "getting less" part.

The special parties and extra-ticket events keep selling out, even though they are priced higher and with fewer hours operating than the regular park tickets. You can look at that and say "you're only getting five hours" but when you're getting more entertainment, and fewer crowds, and able to get more done in that five hours, the value is there.

So when it comes to why the value is missing from the regular operating day, it always comes back to overcrowding....
...and the weather.

I guess more for less, the "less" I mean is things like less entertainment/streetmosphere, G+ now an extra charge vs included FP+, no Magical Express, no included MBs, shorter park hours, etc

All while prices keep going up

 

[Sthebest]

From a “regional” perspective, Seaworld has had some super crowded days recently. People even parking on the grass some days. Mainly weekends. Some people also leaving due to crowds. I know they have a decent size annual pass base. They also have a new coaster and a great summer firework show. They are also incentivizing pass holders to reach I believe 30 visits between a speechified period to earn a dinner for 2 at their speciality dining restaurant. They are giving discounted tickets as well. So I guess all that is contributing to filling the park a little more. Their annual pass perks are really good though.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I *love* Disney parks with few guests.

I have an AP.

So, what's stopping me from flying down next week and enjoying the parks right now?

Well, I went once in September to enjoy 'low crowds' and the heat made it unenjoyable.

I have reservations for late Oct and early Dec.

So, here's what's keeping me away at this time...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

TLM is a solid C

With an F+ box office ledger sheet

 

[JusticeDisney]

A good portion of guests of USO book it as a secondary destination to WDW. (5 days at WDW, 2 at USO). I think it would be fair to say that the there is a direct correlation between WDW and USO attendance and that WDW attendance (or lack there of) is a direct driver of attendance at USO. Which means that USO as well as other Central Florida attractions are collateral damage from Disney's failures.

I could not disagree more. Universal has been steadily gaining on WDW in attendance over the past couple years. So I guess when Universal’s numbers are good it’s because how fabulous they are but when their numbers are down it’s because they are collateral damage of WDW. Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Disney fans: The parks are too expensive, we're not going.

Also Disney fans: Gotta buy tickets for all those upsell After Hours and Party events before they sell out!!!

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. One can recognize that the parks are indeed ridiculously expensive, while at the very same time concluding that it is worth paying extra money to avoid what has typically been equally obscene crowd sizes and wait times.

 

[Disstevefan1]

With an F+ box office ledger sheet

If it breaks even, can we call it a C ?

After all, Its ESG grade is A+++

 

[Nubs70]

What about people who do resort only stays? Same results?

I believe this class of customer would also fall into the same class of undesirable clients as they serve to depress PRGS.

 

[Cliff]

Cliff really needs a sarcasm font… I can never tell when he’s being serious or sarcastic.

That's because only "good" sarcasm makes you wonder if it's real or not. If you know the answer right away?...well, that's just "normal" humor or satire. ;-)

 

[Trauma]

I believe this class of customer would also fall into the same class of undesirable clients as they serve to depress PRGS.

I’m not trying to stir up a nest of resort only people on these forums, but I’ve never understood it.

There a much nicer resorts all over the world for the same or less $$$ than Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

Step out of the bubble, normal people who only go to WDW a few times in their life go to their regional amusement park more often and may even be passholders.

If that's true, they why do so many here look down on regional parks so much?

 

[Touchdown]

If that's true, they why do so many here look down on regional parks so much?

1. People on this site aren’t normal, they’re Uber fans
2. I still don’t understand the sentiment, some of those parks are excellent and I travel from nearly as far away as FL is to go to them. I’ve already done Dollywood, Cedar Point, and Kings Island. I have trips to BGW, SDC, Dollywood again and BGW again left this year. I don’t go to parks I don’t like (Six Flags) but not every regional park is Six Flags, heck there’s one Six Flags that rises above its name and is a good park in spite of its owner (SFFT.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If that's true, they why do so many here look down on regional parks so much?

My theory is it’s a small, but vocal group that sub Disney parks for something inherently missing in their lives and therefore attempt to “win fights for them” in all Instances…

…like really dumb medieval knights with a chivalry code.

Luckily it’s few…and dwindling. Grain of salt.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I’m not trying to stir up a nest of resort only people on these forums, but I’ve never understood it.

There a much nicer resorts all over the world for the same or less $$$ than Disney.

If you have DVC then I get it since you're using your points. But paying cash rates when you're not going into the parks? Yeah, then you should go to an all inclusive resort elsewhere.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

1. People on this site aren’t normal, they’re Uber fans
2. I still don’t understand the sentiment, some of those parks are excellent and I travel from nearly as far away as FL is to go to them. I’ve already done Dollywood, Cedar Point, and Kings Island. I have trips to BGW, SDC, Dollywood again and BGW again left this year. I don’t go to parks I don’t like (Six Flags) but not every regional park is Six Flags, heck there’s on Six Flags that rises above its name and is a good park in spite of its owner (SFFT.)

On average we are probably older also, 15 years ago I closely followed Cedar Point projects, now when I watch a CF update video I think of how fun it looks but also how much recovery time I’ll need. I can still do extreme rides but not back to back to back like the good ole days.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But is the state of Florida seeing a noticible tourism decline? I suspect no. Is Universal seeing slumping ticket sales because of the Florida governor and legislator? Nope!

Why is "Disney" the only one negatively affected by the governor and legislator's action? Everybody else in the state is doing great? Aren"t they?

The population of Florida is sky rocketing and Florida state laws don't seem to be hurting that one tiny bit.

it does seem the other parks have been impacted somewhat. I know I looked at one point for rooms at Universal and there were tons of openings (less at the premiere that included the express pass) and monitoring wait times there yesterday and they were often quite low as well - lower than one would expect for a holiday

I think Disney is being impacted to a much greater degree, but they aren't the only ones impacted while everyone else is doing bonanza business.

 

[monothingie]

I could not disagree more. Universal has been steadily gaining on WDW in attendance over the past couple years. So I guess when Universal’s numbers are good it’s because how fabulous they are but when their numbers are down it’s because they are collateral damage of WDW. Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

You are correct that USO is gaining and WDW, but that doesn't mean they have become the sole destination for visitors Central Florida. USO does not have the guest infrastructure that Disney has developed in terms of hotels, timeshares, parks, shopping, dining the USO presently has to be that sole destination. USO is still and will continue to be a secondary destination for out of town visitors. That by no means implies that they are failing, but their attendance numbers are linked to Disney's.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. One can recognize that the parks are indeed ridiculously expensive, while at the very same time concluding that it is worth paying extra money to avoid what has typically been equally obscene crowd sizes and wait times.

It doesn't bother you that they use one failing to justify the other? Clearly guests ARE rejecting the high costs and crowds and pushing back at the up-charges.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

1. People on this site aren’t normal, they’re Uber fans
2. I still don’t understand the sentiment, some of those parks are excellent and I travel from nearly as far away as FL is to go to them. I’ve already done Dollywood, Cedar Point, and Kings Island. I have trips to BGW, SDC, Dollywood again and BGW again left this year. I don’t go to parks I don’t like (Six Flags) but not every regional park is Six Flags, heck there’s on Six Flags that rises above its name and is a good park in spite of its owner (SFFT.)

yup - I think most people on sites like these just hold Disney in a different opinion than other places

We definitely still like other parks - Have done BGW several times, did Dollywood last year. Enjoyed them but to us they don't hold a candle to Disney, just another level. Heck, we did Universal Orlando about 18 months ago and again, enjoyed it but highlighted that we are a Disney family not a themepark family as we still enjoy Disney way more

neither is right or wrong, just different things are better for different people (lots of people like just going to the beach for a week, I would be bored out of my mind in 20 mins)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m not trying to stir up a nest of resort only people on these forums, but I’ve never understood it.

There a much nicer resorts all over the world for the same or less $$$ than Disney.

There are very few true “resort only” dvc…

Which is why their complete mishandling of them during Covid was such a colossal mistake…now and in the future

 

[JusticeDisney]

You are correct that USO is gaining and WDW, but that doesn't mean they have become the sole destination for visitors Central Florida. USO does not have the guest infrastructure that Disney has developed in terms of hotels, timeshares, parks, shopping, dining the USO presently has to be that sole destination. USO is still and will continue to be a secondary destination for out of town visitors. That by no means implies that they are failing, but their attendance numbers are linked to Disney's.

Florida Tourism is just fine, in fact it has been documented that it is near record high numbers post pandemic. The problem is more localized with a company that feels they need to charge exorbitant prices for substandard offerings and offering IP and entertainment that does not appeal to main stream audiences.

It doesn't bother you that they use one failing to justify the other? Clearly guests ARE rejecting the high costs and crowds and pushing back at the up-charges.

Yeah my only point is that any declining numbers as reflected by low wait times at Universal are not the fault of WDW. If I had a nickel for every time I read on here that WDW’s failures are leading to Universal’s surging gains, my family would be financially set for generations. Yet, you are now arguing that WDW’s failures are what is causing Universal’s poor numbers. Sorry, not buying it.

As for WDW guests pushing back at the after hours events and the associated costs, I’m pretty sure tons of those events actually sold out.