Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Grimley1968]

Why not just use a refillable water mug? There are literally hundreds of possible options.

My post was made in jest. I wouldn't go to so much trouble to bring water, or even a refillable mug (or flask), from 600 miles away just to be able to drink water in WDW, though I can understand not wanting to spend $5 or more on a single bottle of water anywhere. Since my kids grew up I prefer to not carry anything but a means of payment, ID and my phone if possible. Yes, that means paying more for a beverage, but WDW is a little cheaper than most sporting events I go to, before which I've usually tailgated.

 

[Saskdw]

I disagree. Last time we ate at - of all places- CRT- the food was partly inedible. I recall the meat was okay, but the potato thing and the carrots that came with it were inedible. Like, we tried to chew the carrots and they were extremely rubbery.

Last time I dined at Rose and Crown, I ordered a side of sugar snap peas. They were both extremely mushy and extremely tough to chew at the same time. Very starchy. I chewed and chewed, but the tough part was so tough, I eventually had to spit it out.

Other times I have ordered side veggies that were also inedible. Like asparagus that was literally caked with a salt and pepper crust sitting in a pool of grease. The menu described it as 'lightly salted.' Even after removing as much salt as possible the produce that remained was super salty and gross.

I can recall some other doozies too. I mentioned Kouzzina. We found a hard plastic chunk in our food. At least I think it was plastic. That was my guess, but the person who found it in their food was convinced it was a fingernail. And that was just one of the problems we had with that particular meal.

I can think of some other really bad ones too, but I don't want to further gross everyone out. Mind, we've also had some amazing meals.

What you are describing is disgusting, but we have never experienced anything like that.

 

[wannabeBelle]

What you are describing is disgusting, but we have never experienced anything like that.

Which exactly proves the point that the food is hit and miss. Given the price point that most restaurants in WDW are, that shouldnt be so. That having been said I do have a few favorites that seem to have been consistent for me and arent outrageously priced so those are the ones I will be going to on my own trips. Marie

 

[BrianLo]

Here’s an example of the price part of the problem:

Today I expanded our December trip flights and booked vacation packages with both WDW and Universal.

WDW:
- 5 nights at All-Star Sports
- 4 x 4-day park tickets with “free”parkhopper
- $3400 USD

Universal:
- 6 nights at Cabana Bay (superior hotel)
- 4 x 5-day park-to-park tickets
- $2200 USD

It will be quite interesting to see how this tracks next year. Universal I suspect will jump 800-1000USD by this time next year. Mostly in ticketing. That’s the part that’s going to be a hard adjustment period. Uni does well when it’s priced comparably as a deal. Does that hold when it loses its pricing advantage on the other hand?

Has Bob ever spent a day in the parks experiencing what Guests have to go through. Seems the only time Bob goes to the park is to promote something ---there and gone

Bob is notoriously apathetic on the parks during his leadership… that said he has spent a disproportionate amount of time in the parks since his return compared to his prior CEO run. It stands out oddly in contrast. He’s been spotted I think multiple times across all their worldwide resorts now and that doesn’t just include attraction promotions either. Seems a large part was a planning tour leading up to their ‘promissory’ 60B spending plan.

Though Bob will never have a normal guest experience. He seems oddly interested in them as of late.

 

[BrianLo]

From the same company that obliterated Marvel, Pixar, and Star Wars within the span of a decade!

Over spent on Fox to the tune of $70+B

And blew up the equivalent of a half dozen or more worth of cruise ships on a streaming service that will never come close to making it back.

Yup they sure do know what they’re doing!

Star Wars aside, most of this isn’t particularly true. They’ve already made back what they’ve sunk into streaming several times over. What’s D+ worth? Probably pushing 50B now if a domestic only streamer is worth 30+. The startup costs have more or less ended as it transitions to the black.

Disney did overspend on Fox. Though probably to the tune of 10-15B. The acquisition cost was already run down to sub 40 with first year divestments.

So if Disney fired 10000 Cast Members and the stock rose 5 points would we be cheering here?

If Disney released the highest grossing animated film ever, but the stock rose would we be proclaiming the start of a new Disney era?

If Deadpool becomes the highest grossing rated R movie ever beating Joker, but the stock goes down still, will we be proclaiming the death of the MCU?

Stock prices are a stupid barometer for some of this stuff.

Incredibly so. Disneys record highs circa 2021 are with most of their experiences portfolio shuttered and theatrical limping or non existent. It’s silly using it as the barometer of what we care about. Because it so clearly doesn’t represent what we care about.

Naturally the stock went up today above the market and the breathless posts about it immediately stopped. Bad faith arguments abound.

 

[monothingie]

Star Wars aside, most of this isn’t particularly true. They’ve already made back what they’ve sunk into streaming several times over. What’s D+ worth? Probably pushing 50B now if a domestic only streamer is worth 30+. The startup costs have more or less ended as it transitions to the black.

I'm sorry, but that is some of the most convoluted jumping through hoops that I've seen only exceeded by a couple of people here.

What are you basing the value of D+ on? Subscribers? ARPU? Pixie Dust?

Tubi has little more than half the subscribers of D+, yet has more user views and cost a fraction of a D+ to startup. Does that make it worth $100B?

D+ like most DTC streamers has still not turned a profit. It probably will eventually eke out something, but it will NEVER be the money printing machine that Bob Iger was sold on in 2016-17. So even if they did recover their initial investments in D+, what did it actually cost them? Cruise ships print money for Disney, D+ doesn't and never will.

Disney did overspend on Fox. Though probably to the tune of 10-15B. The acquisition cost was already run down to sub 40 with first year divestments.

Disney overspent on Fox to the tune of $70B dollars because they never should have purchased it to begin with. The checks came solely from the Bob Iger ego account.

@Sirwalterraleigh you seem quiet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@Sirwalterraleigh you seem quiet.

You know…I watch the same people back up and mentally run headfirst into a brick wall about the same focus points daily…

Some of the good ones being:
1. D+ will makes tons
2. Disney hasn’t hurt their brand chasing politics instead of the mainstream
3. Disney hasn’t caused huge longterm damage to their park business
4. Disney hasn’t caused a Star Wars disaster and won’t fix it because of ego


…I won’t tell anyone they don’t have to right to be completely wrong. Freedom of choice

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Naturally the stock went up today above the market and the breathless posts about it immediately stopped. Bad faith arguments abound.

It’s about $0.30 above the chapek line. When’s the parade?

Do you like charts? Take a lookie at the trend line…instead of Monday morning quarterbacking

I like you…but your compass is starting to drift…
The more you try “fair and balanced”…the more it looks like on bobs payroll. And we got enough of those who are really low paid on that payroll

 

[BrianLo]

I'm sorry, but that is some of the most convoluted jumping through hoops that I've seen only exceeded by a couple of people here.

What are you basing the value of D+ on? Subscribers? ARPU? Pixie Dust?

Tubi has little more than half the subscribers of D+, yet has more user views and cost a fraction of a D+ to startup. Does that make it worth $100B?

I'm basing in on the very public and ongoing Hulu valuation... this is not some extraneous leap of logic. If a business unit has 8 billion sunk into it and is worth multiples of that, it has made its investment back. The strange calculus you all seem to be trying to have the company jump through is not how businesses work. Nor how they are valued.

I am very, very pro DCL by the way and the value there. But DCL is also not worth a x5 investment multiple over five years. RCL with all of its multi-line fleet is pushing a 40 billion market cap. There is plenty of room to invest smartly in both units.


And No, Tubi had 700 million in 2023 revenue. Disney's (admittedly multi faceted arms) of DTC have 20 billion in annual revenue. So no... I'm basing valuation on... you know... money.

D+ like most DTC streamers has still not turned a profit. It probably will eventually eke out something, but it will NEVER be the money printing machine that Bob Iger was sold on in 2016-17. So even if they did recover their initial investments in D+, what did it actually cost them? Cruise ships print money for Disney, D+ doesn't and never will.

Must I also remind you all, who declared the units a forever losing prospect... They have more or less closed a 1.5 billion quaterly operational deficit in 15 months. Feel free to at me in a few more years about it, but no, you guys have absolutely missed the mark on this historically. No matter how much the echo chamber recycles and repackages.

 

[BrianLo]

It’s about $0.30 above the chapek line. When’s the parade?

Do you like charts? Take a lookie at the trend line…instead of Monday morning quarterbacking

I like you…but your compass is starting to drift…
The more you try “fair and balanced”…the more it looks like on bobs payroll. And we got enough of those who are really low paid on that payroll

Completely. I agree and see the same trend. It's the daily updates that sometimes have very little do do with what is currently occurring. Those I could do without.

As equally obnoxious would be anyone declaring the company 'saved' because it went up whatever small amount today. I'd much rather discuss the broader trends than the day to day fluctuations.

 

[BrianLo]

A little bit privy to the 5 year trend lines for DIS. Operating income is relatively now stagnant over 5 years. Hence the stock price. But look how dramatically the company has changed (reported as percentage mix of OI).

2019 (annual)
Linear Media ~50%
Experiences ~45%
Studios ~18%
DTC ~(-13%)

2024 (first 6 months)
Linear Media ~26%
Experiences ~70%
Sports ~8%
Studios ~(-3%)
DTC ~(1%)

A rapid collapse of Linear. Experiences working overtime (hence why Bob seems to have suddenly noted the unit exists). I of course expect Studios to have a much brighter Q3/4.

 

[bwr827]

This is 100% valid but probably the minority, now that bottled drinks are $5+ we never walk into the parks without a soda or bottled water in our bags, we save $20 a day simply by taking one bottle each in the morning and one bottle each after our afternoon break.

Back when it was $3 we’d just buy it in the parks but at the current prices it doesn’t make sense not to lug in our own drinks.

The thought of warm backpack soda just ruined my next Disney trip.

 

[bwr827]

If it's an issue of possible contamination that might make the food unsafe to eat, ok, that could fall under inedible.

I guess the same for food that you literally couldn't chew into a bolus form - but I am a little skeptical that this is happening as often as is reported. It's not just Disney - suddenly I see plenty of Yelp reviews referencing "inedible" food. Maybe I've been extremely lucky but I don't think I have ever, in all my years on the planet, been served food that was actually inedible. Including plenty of cafeteria and mall food from my days working in a food court as a teen. Certainly plenty of takeout. I just feel like "inedible" now means "I didn't care for it".

Plus if a restaurant serves you inedible food, you politely request a new dish.

“Excuse me, I know this isn’t your fault, but this dish is pretty bad. [Insert specific detail.] Would you please replace it for me?”

If I order a medium rare steak, and I get a hunk of gray beef, it’s going back.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Plus if a restaurant serves you inedible food, you politely request a new dish.

“Excuse me, I know this isn’t your fault, but this dish is pretty bad. [Insert specific detail.] Would you please replace it for me?”

If I order a medium rare steak, and I get a hunk of gray beef, it’s going back.

Yeah if I got food that was burnt or chewy to the point that I really couldn’t eat it, I think I’d be apologetic but speak to the server.

Maybe it’s a new expression and not meant literally? Not sure. It just sounds jarring to me to me to say a restaurant routinely serves food that is not edible for humans.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

If it's an issue of possible contamination that might make the food unsafe to eat, ok, that could fall under inedible.

I guess the same for food that you literally couldn't chew into a bolus form - but I am a little skeptical that this is happening as often as is reported. It's not just Disney - suddenly I see plenty of Yelp reviews referencing "inedible" food. Maybe I've been extremely lucky but I don't think I have ever, in all my years on the planet, been served food that was actually inedible. Including plenty of cafeteria and mall food from my days working in a food court as a teen. Certainly plenty of takeout. I just feel like "inedible" now means "I didn't care for it".

Okay. It didn't happen to you, and this is the internet, I get that.

In your earlier post you already said you didn't believe 'inedible' was possible because it didn't happen to you, so I don't imagine anything I post will change your mind into thinking it is possible to have a bad meal at WDW. I can live with that.

If it matters, I also worked in the food service industry once upon a time. It was a great learning experience!

That said, Disney meals have run the gamut. I think he is retired now, but if you had ever met/had food prepared by Chef TJ Tudiswa, you would probably know it. He is an AMAZING chef! He's worked all over WDW: AKL, GF, BC/YC, Poly and WL.

We've also always been impressed by the giant chocolate eggs the Disney pastry chefs make every spring. If you ever visit WDW near Easter, be sure to visit the GF lobby to see them. I think this year there were at least 20 of them at GF alone. They usually have a few on display at each of the deluxe resorts. Most are in the lobbies, but they also had 4 on display in the glass cases at Steakhouse 71. They are all styled after Disney movies or characters. They had a 3-egg set this past year styled on the Main Street Electric Parade complete with LED lights.

Disney's got talent, but WDW dining doesn't offer consistency. When the dining bombs, sometimes it really bombs! At the prices WDW charges, the food should be reliably good.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Okay. It didn't happen to you, and this is the internet, I get that.

In your earlier post you already said you didn't believe 'inedible' was possible because it didn't happen to you, so I don't imagine anything I post will change your mind into thinking it is possible to have a bad meal at WDW. I can live with that.

If it matters, I also worked in the food service industry once upon a time. It was a great learning experience!

That said, Disney meals have run the gamut. I think he is retired now, but if you had ever met/had food prepared by Chef TJ Tudiswa, you would probably know it. He is an AMAZING chef! He's worked all over WDW: AKL, GF, BC/YC, Poly and WL.

We've also always been impressed by the giant chocolate eggs the Disney pastry chefs make every spring. If you ever visit WDW near Easter, be sure to visit the GF lobby to see them. I think this year there were at least 20 of them at GF alone. They usually have a few on display at each of the deluxe resorts. Most are in the lobbies, but they also had 4 on display in the glass cases at Steakhouse 71. They are all styled after Disney movies or characters. They had a 3-egg set this past year styled on the Main Street Electric Parade complete with LED lights.

Disney's got talent, but WDW dining doesn't offer consistency. When the dining bombs, sometimes it really bombs! At the prices WDW charges, the food should be reliably good.

I don’t doubt they serve food that people don’t care for. When I hear “inedible” I think literally inedible though. Like if a restaurant is routinely serving things that are literally not edible because they are so hard, chewy, or contaminated, someone should call the health department.

It’s probably just lingo that I’m not up on though. The Young People these days, they do confuse me with their slang and whatnot.

 

[monothingie]

I'm basing in on the very public and ongoing Hulu valuation... this is not some extraneous leap of logic. If a business unit has 8 billion sunk into it and is worth multiples of that, it has made its investment back. The strange calculus you all seem to be trying to have the company jump through is not how businesses work. Nor how they are valued.

But what is the point of beating us down with the valuation if it can’t turn a profit or only breaks even or only makes a little bit? Disney would have been better off licensing their content ($$$) and establishing strategic partnerships with others (Apple) that could have absorbed the costs without the creating the mess of the past half decade.

They got greedy and thought they could be a tech company and entertainment company at the same time.

I am very, very pro DCL by the way and the value there. But DCL is also not worth a x5 investment multiple over five years. RCL with all of its multi-line fleet is pushing a 40 billion market cap. There is plenty of room to invest smartly in both units.

Parks and Experiences print money for the company. DTC and linear do not. Imagine what could have been done to compete in various recreational segments that would have blown it wide open instead of burning it quarterly with D+

And No, Tubi had 700 million in 2023 revenue. Disney's (admittedly multi faceted arms) of DTC have 20 billion in annual revenue. So no... I'm basing valuation on... you know... money.

How much did Tubi cost the roll out? If you said less than $600M, then you get a cookie! How much did D+ cost. And don’t forget to count the integration of Hulu in that.

Must I also remind you all, who declared the units a forever losing prospect... They have more or less closed a 1.5 billion quaterly operational deficit in 15 months. Feel free to at me in a few more years about it, but no, you guys have absolutely missed the mark on this historically. No matter how much the echo chamber recycles and repackages.

How did they close out that $1.5? I read the quarterlies too. They like to offset a lot of things by raising prices and cutting expenses. That doesn’t seem like a growth strategy to me. But what do I know.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I would guess it's on the rise, as rates of food allergies are only increasing. As have sensory based eating issues and issues like ARFID. Even for typically developing children, I think you see more of this at subclinical level. I don't remember parents talking about their toddler only eating one brand of snack cracker or whatever when I was growing up in the 80s, now that seems to fall under "Oh, you know how kids are!"

Huh.
I recall it occurring back in the 1970's.
(Food allergies are statistically increasing, and nobody knows why.)

In the 1970's though, adults were often unsympathetic if a child dared to complain about the food they were served. It was very common for parents to use the line about kids needing to finish their plate because there were starving children somewhere in the world. (the location of the starving children changed from time to time.)

Kids had food aversions, they just learned to hide them. Most kids knew how to hide food they didn't want to eat, like in a napkin, or to spit it out in the bathroom. It was a regular playground conversation to discuss the success of our various strategies.


(Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall is now running through my head.)

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I drink cases of smaller, flavored water bottles at home that we buy from Kroger. If I ever step back in a Disney park I may have to bring down a bunch of Kroger waters and put them in our bag. Let's see them confiscate flavored water from a store multiple states away from WDW.

I am not familiar with Kroger's flavored water, but Amazon delivers to WDW hotels. I'm pretty sure they carry Hint water, which I think is similar.

Offsite, there are multiple Targets (and Walmart?) that will put together a pick-up order. (Just be aware, the mini Target in Flamingo Crossings only holds orders for like 1 day. I learned that the hard way!) It is funny though, because about 1/3 of the stock at that Target is assorted beverages of all kinds! I'm pretty sure they also carry Hint.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Kids had food aversions, they just learned to hide them. Most kids knew how to hide food they didn't want to eat, like in a napkin, or to spit it out in the bathroom. It was a regular playground conversation to discuss the success of our various strategies.

Yes and no. Kids have always had food aversions, but if it reaches the level of a disorder children may starve themselves for days rather than eat even common foods.

That's all I'll say about it because I don't want to get off topic. But it's such a common misconception ("Why don't you just make them finish whatever is on their plate?!") that I do want to address the idea briefly. As it relates to Disney - I do think you have more families bringing in food due to sensory issues. They serve some things in the park but don't really have a big market-style place where you can buy common brands such as Goldfish, Pringles, etc. For children who are brand sensitive there aren't going to be a lot of options.