Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Grimley1968]

In a time of high inflation and unavoidable price increases to cope with it, smarter companies find ways to increase or at least enhance the existing value of their product. Those who don't, like WDW, will suffer even when inflation eases because customers will continue to flock to companies that did enhance or increase the value of their product (or guest experience). I'm much more convinced that this is causing WDW's attendance woes more than a hot summer.

Actively reducing the value guests get out of a WDW vacation while also raising their prices to cope with inflation was 100% the wrong direction for the company to take.

 

[monothingie]

The two most recent promotional releases failed to generate anywhere near the projected interest and subsequent conversion into bookings. Since existing reservations that are not yet paid in full are eligible for new discounts, it's possible that there is a net-negative impact for certain parameters.

These would be the Early and Late Fall Promotions?

The right thing to do would be to admit your mistake and retool the promotions. But Disney would rather cut their nose of to spite their face and stick with something that doesn't work rather than admit wrong.

The next few promotional cycles will almost certainly be narrower in terms of availability and inclusions.

I gave up an October and December trip because I could not get any promotions that weren't quite frankly insulting. I can only imagine how poorly received the winter promos will be. Which is going to guide my decision to renew or not to renew my AP.

I've heard rumblings of expanded downstaffing at certain restaurants, and I believe at least some of the resort inventory reductions have recently been extended.

Not great, Bob.

Not an insignificant number of part-timers being let go. Not an insignificant number of shifts being eliminated.

 

[Saskdw]

They tried to use the free dining and ticket gimmicks to preserve the inflated rack rates, but it appears that it hasn't made a difference.

It wasn't really free dining though. We always booked the FD promos when it was full free dining for a moderate resort.

Now they are offering the chicken finger dining and trying to pass it off as FD. We vacation for 2 weeks. We aren't going to eat chicken fingers for 2 weeks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One thing they could do to triage this, is improve the exchange rate between DVC members using points for standard Hotel rooms. I'm probably way oversimplifying this also and there are probably lots difficulties in the doing this.

For the most part DVC inventory is always in high demand. Yes Saratoga and OKW and Kidani are the sometimes exceptions. But allowing DVC members to use points in a more efficient manner opens up supply on the DVC end and also encourages could possibly encourage more demand and justify the high points cost when purchasing direct.

I don’t see it

Dvc isn’t climbing over each other to get there right now either.

We have the same complaints about park management, more experience and less patience for it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s important to note (again) that the entire Iger era park strategy was always a house of cards and that’s why they’re now stuck.

You can’t abandon the middle class when the parks were specifically built to cast a wide net over it. The mechanics don’t work.

They just had along rope of reputation and good will on their side to burn.

Now that fuse has ended.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In a perfect world they would offer an industry leading guest experience and find that sweet spot for price. Keeping crowds reasonable and the price within the tolerance level of what people will pay for an industry leading experience.

Unfortunately that is not what's happening here.

Public traded companies…especially one now heavily supported by park revenues…can never actively reject business. It’s a stupid concept.

The problem they have is Bob is in full collapse. It’s Ron miller time…actually worse. They’re just much bigger now…but that doesn’t mean they’re succeeding more.

 

[Saskdw]

These would be the Early and Late Fall Promotions?

The right thing to do would be to admit your mistake and retool the promotions. But Disney would rather cut their nose of to spite their face and stick with something that doesn't work rather than admit wrong.

I gave up an October and December trip because I could not get any promotions that weren't quite frankly insulting. I can only imagine how poorly received the winter promos will be. Which is going to guide my decision to renew or not to renew my AP.

Not an insignificant number of part-timers being let go. Not an insignificant number of shifts being eliminated.

We weren't going to book this year anyway, but when the latest promo came out I check our normal December dates at Coronado and the cheapest room available was a king bed water view or something like that. No standard rooms which is what we would want.

So the "deal" is book this over priced king bed waterview room no one wants and we will give it to you at the rack rate of the room you actually want.

 

[wannabeBelle]

We weren't going to book this year anyway, but when the latest promo came out I check our normal December dates at Coronado and the cheapest room available was a king bed water view or something like that. No standard rooms which is what we would want.

So the "deal" is book this over priced king bed waterview room no one wants and we will give it to you at the rack rate of the room you actually want.

Keep checking, depending on what is selling and what is not, cancellations, etc. the availability with the discounts can change and does. It doesnt happen 100% of the time of course, but I recheck my client's reservations constantly and have had pretty decent success in getting them the room type and/or resort that they are looking for. Marie

 

[monothingie]

It’s important to note (again) that the entire Iger era park strategy was always a house of cards and that’s why they’re now stuck.

You can’t abandon the middle class when the parks were specifically built to cast a wide net over it. The mechanics don’t work.

They just had along rope of reputation and good will on their side to burn.

Now that fuse has ended.

When it costs more to visit Fake Germany than Real Germany mistakes have been made.

 

[monothingie]

I don’t see it

Dvc isn’t climbing over each other to get there right now either.

We have the same complaints about park management, more experience and less patience for it

The summer has been extremely slow, but the September-December is basically unavailable everywhere.

The disconnect between DVC and Resorts is incredibly frustrating to the point where they're each not only not serving guest demand but also at the same time leaving money on the table for the company.

 

[MR.Dis]

On which attractions would you put these people in? Are there seats for these new arrivals on Tron, Flight of Passage, RotR, Slinky Dog, and a dozen other rides? We all know the answer is no, so which people should Disney kick out of their seats so these new arrivals can ride? Then the multi-million dollar question... if you are a guest who has been replaced on the big rides by one of these people who showed up when it got cheaper, do *you* still buy a ticket, plan a vacation?

For better or for worse, all the LL talk, all the DAS talk... people are learning rides sell out. Sometimes, quickly, and there isn't much anyone can do about it, because purchasing LL may get you 1 ride, or 2, but a full day's worth? How much money are families going to risk to not ride the things they want? Disney is maxed out on E-ticket attraction capacity no matter how many dining locations and hotel rooms they have empty. Now, in ye olden days, Disney would sell people on the WDW *resort*, the golfing, the water activities, the shopping, the getting away from it all. Now, they've trained 21st century guests to be of a certain type (rides or the day is shot), and eliminated just about everything else that could elevate the experience. These are the consequences, and cheaper prices will only exacerbate the decline of the experience of all the people trying to get on all the big rides.

Posts like this are just so disingenuous. My post was only addressing how to increase guests. It in no way addressed customer experience. As a kid who loved playing baseball, we always talked about hitting the ball on the sweet spot. Right now Disney is struggling really hard at finding that sweet spot. I fear that the high profit execs are pushing greater prices and not enough attention to declining attendance. So after they spend the 70 some billion to expand and add new attractions, where are the new guests coming from? Since you have already priced out a great many, how high are prices going to be to recover the cost of the expansion? Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think in addition to the high prices and reduced value, WDW also doesn't have a true headliner draw to encourage people to visit ASAP.

TRON was not the E-ticket that was going to get people to book rooms.

Tiana is not really a "new" ride, and they waited too long to tell people when it would actually open to save 2024.

Galaxy's Edge opened 5 years ago. Avatar 7. Neither are new anymore.

I'm sure they're banking on spillover visits because of Epic Universe.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I found a room at Riverside - 2 adults, same 5 night block in mid-September - for a lower price on Priceline than on Disney's site with their "up to 30% off" promotion. The Priceline room is a Garden View vs. a Woods View on Disney's site.

Everything is fine.

ETA: The Priceline price, after taxes and fees, is actually $10 more than the Disney booking, because they have to get their cut. All things being equal, a garden view seems like a nicer view than a "woods view".

 

[Grimley1968]

I found a room at Riverside - 2 adults, same 5 night block in mid-September - for a lower price on Priceline than on Disney's site with their "up to 30% off" promotion. The Priceline room is a Garden View vs. a Woods View on Disney's site.

Everything is fine.

ETA: The Priceline price, after taxes and fees, is actually $10 more than the Disney booking, because they have to get their cut. All things being equal, a garden view seems like a nicer view than a "woods view".

This is not exactly a "carrot" to get anyone to use Disney's slow booking website for their own rooms.

 

[HauntedPirate]

This is not exactly a "carrot" to get anyone to use Disney's slow booking website for their own rooms.

Well then, how about this?

Lake view at the Contemporary. Same party size, same dates. $3060 on Priceline, $3261 on Disney's site. Oh wait...

And there's inventory on Priceline that isn't available to book on Disney's site.

 

[Grimley1968]

Well then, how about this?

Lake view at the Contemporary. Same party size, same dates. $3060 on Priceline, $3261 on Disney's site.

Is that including the extra fees and taxes via Priceline? If so, that's unreal.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

There is a good bit of inventory getting wholesaled out right now, and it's not moving very well their either.

Onsite hotels will almost certainly start showing up on Hotwire before the send of summer.

 

[el_super]

So do you think Epic will have poor attendance next year in the summer months?

Attendance is entirely up to them. I think they are worried about tourist bookings, since they are leading their offerings with multi-day tickets. If they stay soft, they can extend discounting to locals (offer AP add-ons and the like) too keep the park full, but they seriously run the risk of devaluing their product if they discount too much.

It will be interesting to see which way they go, but they definitely need to pay off that park and extracting more revenue from their local fans is going to be painful.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Is that including the extra fees and taxes via Priceline? If so, that's unreal.

Yes sir, that's the final price on Priceline.

 

[HauntedPirate]

And from Disney: