Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Operation hours are going to be interesting to watch. Though during the summer, hours are similar no?

It really depends on if you’re trying to keep hours shorter to “temper expectations”

Disney hasn’t tried the upsell nonsense in the summer yet…but as their attendance falls with nothing to promote and they need to stop gap the revenue…it’s coming

 

[Disstevefan1]

Well the good thig for Disney, a large portion of their fans WILL NOT consider Universal or SeaWorld.

It will be interesting to watch and see what happens.

 

[Lilofan]

I like SeaWorld and they keep adding coasters!

I miss the free beer samples and the staff at Sea World Orlando gave me generous servings back in the day at the Busch beer pavillion.

 

[Laketravis]

If I was Disney, a HUGE worry for me would be the people who always went to Disney, so they've never really been to Universal. I'll talk my family here. Kids have never been, I've been twice, one time probably 15ish years ago, the other maybe closer to 20. We all really want to see Epic. But it's not an option 1 for us. It's an option 2 in that "We've seen everything at Disney, but since we are going to Universal anyways, lets check out the other 2 parks and the water park."

I will say something that will have a MAJOR impact on us is operating hours. Universal needs to operate on MK hours or even better, not DAK hours for us to really be excited about it all.

When my son was 5 (2010), going to WDW was better than Christmas. By the time he was 10 (2015), Harry Potter stole his attention and Uni was the new Santa Claus. He had no interest in going back to WDW. At all.

Last summer for his 18th birthday, I told him we could go wherever he wanted. We spent seven days at Uni. That's a stretch for me because I can do both parks in one day and maybe go back a second day. But he enjoyed all seven days (and the ability to slow the pace down), never once mentioning that maybe we could go to WDW for a day or two.

The first and last time he's been back to WDW since 2015 was a couple of years ago when I took an entire high school marching band. Three days at WDW and one day at Uni. It was almost unanimous that they enjoyed Uni more.

Going forward, there's no doubt in my mind he will not be self-motivated to return to WDW because there is simply nothing there that caters to his interests. Never mind the cost.

One thing I noticed in December and last week was a much more "mature" crowd at WDW compared to years past. CM's even agreed when I would ask if it seemed like the overall demographics of visitors was aging. Old folks like me and even older continue to go. And complain. But go.

I wonder if more Gen Z's like my son have absolutely no interest.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well the good thig for Disney, a large portion of their fans WILL NOT consider Universal or SeaWorld.

It will be interesting to watch and see what happens.

A good portion of their experienced/established travelers…whose overall aggravation level is rising due to bad management in parks.

120 waits for Peter Pan get very old quickly

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When my son was 5 (2010), going to WDW was better than Christmas. By the time he was 10 (2015), Harry Potter stole his attention and Uni was the new Santa Claus. He had no interest in going back to WDW. At all.

Last summer for his 18th birthday, I told him we could go wherever he wanted. We spent seven days at Uni. That's a stretch for me because I can do both parks in one day and maybe go back a second day. But he enjoyed all seven days (and the ability to slow the pace down), never once mentioning that maybe we could go to WDW for a day or two.

The first and last time he's been back to WDW since 2015 was a couple of years ago when I took an entire high school marching band. Three days at WDW and one day at Uni. It was almost unanimous that they enjoyed Uni more.

Going forward, there's no doubt in my mind he will not be self-motivated to return to WDW because there is simply nothing there that caters to his interests. Never mind the cost.

One thing I noticed in December and last week was a much more "mature" crowd at WDW compared to years past. CM's even agreed when I would ask if it seemed like the overall demographics of visitors was aging. Old folks like me and even older continue to go. And complain. But go.

I wonder if more Gen Z's like my son have absolutely no interest.

Well…the dedicated Disney parks generations are boomer and X

And for 2 points…anyone want to guess why?

It’s actually fairly academic

 

[Laketravis]

A good portion of their experienced/established travelers…whose overall aggravation level is rising due to bad management in parks.

120 waits for Peter Pan get very old quickly

Exactly - per my previous post, it seems to me there are two distinct groups being established. Those (primarily younger) who have no interest in going to WDW whatsoever, and those (like us) who are older and continue to go driven by nostalgia, memories, and a seemingly unwavering loyalty.

Disney is not doing enough to attract the first group and everything they can to alienate the second.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly - per my previous post, it seems to me there are two distinct groups being established. Those (primarily younger) who have no interest in going to WDW whatsoever, and those (like us) who are older and continue to go driven by nostalgia, memories, and a seemingly unwavering loyalty.

Disney is not doing enough to attract the first group and everything they can to alienate the second.

Amen….

…witness!

 

[Lilofan]

When my son was 5 (2010), going to WDW was better than Christmas. By the time he was 10 (2015), Harry Potter stole his attention and Uni was the new Santa Claus. He had no interest in going back to WDW. At all.

Last summer for his 18th birthday, I told him we could go wherever he wanted. We spent seven days at Uni. That's a stretch for me because I can do both parks in one day and maybe go back a second day. But he enjoyed all seven days (and the ability to slow the pace down), never once mentioning that maybe we could go to WDW for a day or two.

The first and last time he's been back to WDW since 2015 was a couple of years ago when I took an entire high school marching band. Three days at WDW and one day at Uni. It was almost unanimous that they enjoyed Uni more.

Going forward, there's no doubt in my mind he will not be self-motivated to return to WDW because there is simply nothing there that caters to his interests. Never mind the cost.

One thing I noticed in December and last week was a much more "mature" crowd at WDW compared to years past. CM's even agreed when I would ask if it seemed like the overall demographics of visitors was aging. Old folks like me and even older continue to go. And complain. But go.

I wonder if more Gen Z's like my son have absolutely no interest.

I know some seniors that are living well that have the mentality " blow that dough "! It must be nice to figure out / plan how to do it ( buy some adult toys, vacations etc etc ). When you are gone you can't take it with you

 

[Angel Ariel]

DD is 11 now, and we've introduced Harry Potter, so on our DLR trip we spent a day at Universal Hollywood as well. I know it's different than Orlando, and we will still go to Orlando - but, overall, Disneyland was still a better experience. The layout of Universal Hollywood (with the multiple escalators to get from the upper lot to lower lot) didn't help. Super Mario World was okay and well themed, but DH and I didn't enjoy the MarioKart ride as much as we were hoping to. We couldn't get into the quick service location there at all (virtual queue for it and we were shut out basically right after opening). The powerband was interesting, but even that was sadly difficult for DD to access due to the force required for it to interact with the bricks. Harry Potter was the biggest hit by far, so I assume diagon alley will be also.

If we head out to DLR again, I don't know that we will bother with Universal though.

 

[JoeCamel]

I like SeaWorld and they keep adding coasters!

Do you like it 5% more?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

DD is 11 now, and we've introduced Harry Potter, so on our DLR trip we spent a day at Universal Hollywood as well. I know it's different than Orlando, and we will still go to Orlando - but, overall, Disneyland was still a better experience. The layout of Universal Hollywood (with the multiple escalators to get from the upper lot to lower lot) didn't help. Super Mario World was okay and well themed, but DH and I didn't enjoy the MarioKart ride as much as we were hoping to. We couldn't get into the quick service location there at all (virtual queue for it and we were shut out basically right after opening). The powerband was interesting, but even that was sadly difficult for DD to access due to the force required for it to interact with the bricks. Harry Potter was the biggest hit by far, so I assume diagon alley will be also.

If we head out to DLR again, I don't know that we will bother with Universal though.

Universal in Orlando is a much bigger competitor than in Hollywood…even though Disneyland is much smaller in scale.

Hollywood is crammed into a backlot tour…they did what they can.

 

[JoeCamel]

DD is 11 now, and we've introduced Harry Potter, so on our DLR trip we spent a day at Universal Hollywood as well. I know it's different than Orlando, and we will still go to Orlando - but, overall, Disneyland was still a better experience. The layout of Universal Hollywood (with the multiple escalators to get from the upper lot to lower lot) didn't help. Super Mario World was okay and well themed, but DH and I didn't enjoy the MarioKart ride as much as we were hoping to. We couldn't get into the quick service location there at all (virtual queue for it and we were shut out basically right after opening). The powerband was interesting, but even that was sadly difficult for DD to access due to the force required for it to interact with the bricks. Harry Potter was the biggest hit by far, so I assume diagon alley will be also.

If we head out to DLR again, I don't know that we will bother with Universal though.

I don't think there is a comparison on the west coast, DL is the king and will be the king but Universal is building

 

[Laketravis]

DD is 11 now, and we've introduced Harry Potter, so on our DLR trip we spent a day at Universal Hollywood as well. I know it's different than Orlando, and we will still go to Orlando - but, overall, Disneyland was still a better experience. The layout of Universal Hollywood (with the multiple escalators to get from the upper lot to lower lot) didn't help. Super Mario World was okay and well themed, but DH and I didn't enjoy the MarioKart ride as much as we were hoping to. We couldn't get into the quick service location there at all (virtual queue for it and we were shut out basically right after opening). The powerband was interesting, but even that was sadly difficult for DD to access due to the force required for it to interact with the bricks. Harry Potter was the biggest hit by far, so I assume diagon alley will be also.

If we head out to DLR again, I don't know that we will bother with Universal though.

I do think WDW continues to maintain a strong draw on young girls rather than boys. That princess thing never interested my son

 

[StarshipDisney]

The philosophy is monetizing every aspect of the guest experience.

Could not agree more with that one. Also, the guest experience since COVID has gone to crap.

For our vacation last year, we stayed a week at the Embassy Suites near ICON Park on International Drive. We did the Pirates Dinner Show, Seaworld, Chocolate Kingdom Tour, ICON Park and just a bunch of local stuff. Had a good time and great food!

Just planned our 2024 vacation. We are going to Tampa Bay for Busch Gardens and then Cocoa Beach for NASA and the Wizard of Oz Museum. Disney needs to wake up to the fact that there is a whole lot more to see and do in Florida and that Universal is very much up and coming...while Disney (to me anyway) is down and falling. How long can they expect folks to keep paying more for less?

It will be interesting to watch and see what happens.

Yes, it will.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I do think WDW continues to maintain a strong draw on young girls rather than boys. That princess thing never interested my son

I don't think there is a comparison on the west coast, DL is the king and will be the king but Universal is building

Universal in Orlando is a much bigger competitor than in Hollywood…even though Disneyland is much smaller in scale.

Hollywood is crammed into a backlot tour…they did what they can.

For us accessibility is a huge part of it. For ex, this trip to DLR was her first time on Space Mtn because DLR has cars where one of us can ride next to her in case she needs some help to brace side-to-side. We did have universal's attraction access pass, but overall still found that dlr was more accessible. Last time we did Universal Orlando, DD was 8 months old and HP was brand new, so we will definitely check that out and see how she enjoys UO next time we go to FL, though. Hope it's a bit better than UH in this respect

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I think people make way too much of "the competition."

I'm sure WDW would rather see Universal expand Orlando vs. open a new park in Kansas or something. The person going to Kansas is gone. The person going to Orlando is reasonably likely to make WDW part of their trip at least some of the time.

Naturally, everyone expects folks to check out the shiny new toy. There is zero reason to panic when that happens. Some will split their trips. Others will not. I would still expect WDW to see at least a marginal rise in attendance. They benefit from this opening overall.

For the next few years, there will be increased interest in Orlando because of EU. WDW just has to capitalize on that.

I'd be curious to see the attendance numbers around when Harry Potter first opened for comparison.

 

[Andrew25]

I like SeaWorld and they keep adding coasters!

Yes, but unfortunately not everyone is interested in coasters and their shows have become unwatchable and rather short.

The only non-coaster rides are water rides that soak you and the Sesame Street flat rides. Park could benefit from a package of family rides and experiences.

I will say something that will have a MAJOR impact on us is operating hours. Universal needs to operate on MK hours or even better, not DAK hours for us to really be excited about it all.

Yeah, Universal still has a similar operations mindset to their pre-Potter days. There is no reason why IOA should close earlier than 9PM. I get the need for corporate events, but Universal has 10K rooms filled with guests that just can't be dumped into CityWalk at 6PM like the old days.

They also have some of the most inconsistent operating hours. Looking at this week as an example, both IOA and USF close at 7PM on Friday. Animal Kingdom is open to 8PM (and opens earlier).

Operation hours are going to be interesting to watch. Though during the summer, hours are similar no?

Compared to WDW? Not really, Universal's biggest downside is that they don't have consistent hours at all, even in the busiest periods. USF can close as early as 6PM and stay open as late as 9PM. Makes it difficult to plan trips in advance (or for APs who want to visit after work).

Complain all you want about the reservation system being confusing, but at least I know that Epcot/DHS/MK are consistently open until 9PM at the bare minimum, outside special events. At Universal you could have a week where it'll close at 6PM on a Friday lol

 

[Laketravis]

I think people make way too much of "the competition."

I'm sure WDW would rather see Universal expand Orlando vs. open a new park in Kansas or something.

Or Texas

 

[Laketravis]

For the next few years, there will be increased interest in Orlando because of EU. WDW just has to capitalize on that.

Double edged sword - if it does increase attendance for WDW, without current changes it only means even more disappointed customers and growing bad press.