Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[celluloid]

The longer the wait in the FL heat , there should be a cast member walking the queue line selling snacks and drinks including alcohol.

Even better. They have virtual queues that allow people to pay for this and find a place to spend money, while staffing less.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Even better. They have virtual queues that allow people to pay for this and find a place to spend money, while staffing less.

VQs are free. They're an alternative to Standby.

ILL and Genie+ cost extra.

 

[celluloid]

VQs are free. They're an alternative to Standby.

ILL and Genie+ cost extra.

Thanks for the specifics for those who do not know, but I made no incidentals. A Genie Plus is still a priority pass where you virtually wait based on what the algorithm gives you. ILL is a premium over that of course that just expedites and charges individually, as the name implies. Not referenced by me above.
Fastpass as its original use and Fastpass Plus was never created so people could just virtually wait. It was the same revenue as people waiting with someone selling things in line, but better, as far more people would be passing far more opportunities to spend. It is more effective and less staffing than putting more people in queues.

 

[flynnibus]

Fastpass as its original use and Fastpass Plus was never created so people could just virtually wait. It was the same revenue as people waiting with someone selling things in line, but better, as far more people would be passing far more opportunities to spend. It is more effective and less staffing than putting more people in queues

Can I introduce you to the concept of margins?

In that a product sold with basically 100% margin that is also completely ADDITIVE... vs your fastpass 'revenue' that really exists only as an uplift percentage over existing spending.. and whose margins are a fraction.

So you're comparing basically $20 raw.. to trying to bank $20 in profit, which probably takes $60+ in ADDITIONAL sales.. and is only if you actually convert the sale.

Tell me again how the latter is better revenue again?

 

[celluloid]

Can I introduce you to the concept of margins?

In that a product sold with basically 100% margin that is also completely ADDITIVE... vs your fastpass 'revenue' that really exists only as an uplift percentage over existing spending.. and whose margins are a fraction.

So you're comparing basically $20 raw.. to trying to bank $20 in profit, which probably takes $60+ in ADDITIONAL sales.. and is only if you actually convert the sale.

Tell me again how the latter is better revenue again?

I never said better for the guest. Calm down pal. Better for the company. It was a response to why you don't see CMs stationed in large queues selling like major parks used to do.

I was saying Disney makes more money off of paid virtual queues(and formerly free virtual queues) than stationing more people in a queue selling snacks. Fastpass was created with the concept of people standing in line, not in shops or at food and beverage locations were not spending money. Guests would see virtually waiting as a benefit but have opportunites to spend. Better for the company.

You did not introduce anything to me except for seeing why you constantly disagree with others, as you are not reading the conversation.

Let me sum it up for you.

Family spent 15 per person on Genie Plus and got more sodas and snacks throughout their day with the time saved in-between attractions.

Same family could have spent that time in line and maybe got the same number of snacks and drinks if a CM was stationed or vending machines were in the extended queue space, if it even got to that point.

And the margin would be less as it had to pay Cast Members to make that cart happen or vending employees to make it happen.

Both are included historically in being better than staffing stations.

If the other way still made more profit, Disney would be focusing on it rather than occasional.

Please, for the love of discussion, read.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The bolded really frustrates me. Disney did this to themselves; a literal painting into a corner. RotR was an achievement and still can be but is already showing neglect

Challenge is the daily/overnight maintenance can't keep up with it and they can afford to take it down for the 6 months or whatever it would need to get it back in better shape - due to loss of capacity and also would lose all that ILL $

 

[Dranth]

IMO a lot that goes back to what I said earlier, the board and Iger really don't understand the parks and I feel they look down on them. They just like the money they make.

@Dranth the previous paragraph is why I think Iger needs to go. IMO the CEO of Disney has to understand the parks and what they mean, not look down on them and think they are for Carnies.

I understand why people feel that way and I agree a CEO needs to understand the parks but I don't think it is entirely fair to say he doesn't. His real sin was thinking the parks were a mature asset so would not need much investment to keep up with growth. That was a huge blunder and one he took ownership of and then pulled a complete 180.

Yes, it took him too long and if we were getting the version of him that ran the company for the first 10 years then that would stink but, it looks like we are getting the version that was there from 2015-2019 when park investment kicked into high gear. I'm willing to give that version a chance.

Much of the rest of the stuff people don't like about him I think we get with any CEO. As long as Disney is a public company price hikes and alternative revenue streams (G+, ILL, parties) will always be on the table. Sure, they will discount when things are down and not when they are up but the basics will be the same with anyone.

 

[Jrb1979]

I understand why people feel that way and I agree a CEO needs to understand the parks but I don't think it is entirely fair to say he doesn't. His real sin was thinking the parks were a mature asset so would not need much investment to keep up with growth. That was a huge blunder and one he took ownership of and then pulled a complete 180.

Yes, it took him too long and if we were getting the version of him that ran the company for the first 10 years then that would stink but, it looks like we are getting the version that was there from 2015-2019 when park investment kicked into high gear. I'm willing to give that version a chance.

Much of the rest of the stuff people don't like about him I think we get with any CEO. As long as Disney is a public company price hikes and alternative revenue streams (G+, ILL, parties) will always be on the table. Sure, they will discount when things are down and not when they are up but the basics will be the same with anyone.

That's fair. I just don't see them actually following through with all of it. Mainly cause of the reaction Wall Street had to the announcement of investments into the parks. Even if they do follow through, any of the investments won't be built for a long while from now.


I know it's just a personal view but I'm not excited about any of these blue sky ideas. They feel more of the same to me. More flashy IP with little substance. I want them to go back to more Tower of Terror, Everest and Pandora attractions.

 

[Dranth]

That's fair. I just don't see them actually following through with all of it. Mainly cause of the reaction Wall Street had to the announcement of investments into the parks. Even if they do follow through, any of the investments won't be built for a long while from now.


I know it's just a personal view but I'm not excited about any of these blue sky ideas. They feel more of the same to me. More flashy IP with little substance. I want them to go back to more Tower of Terror, Everest and Pandora attractions.

The Wall Street response, while not surprising, is actually the thing the worries me the most. It very likely gets us a CEO who is unwilling to invest in the parks if the board caves into that kind of reaction. At that point we are back to early Iger or worse.

As for the current park plans, I would say the Destination D changes were an improvement from the D23 last year and gave me some hope they are heading in the right direction. Ideally, they continue to make intelligent changes and add new, actually thought out plans. I expect we will know for sure at D23 next year. That would give them a year and a half since Iger brought Bruce Vaughn back to run Imagineering to rework any plans that already existed and create some new ones.

 

[Marionnette]

That's fair. I just don't see them actually following through with all of it. Mainly cause of the reaction Wall Street had to the announcement of investments into the parks. Even if they do follow through, any of the investments won't be built for a long while from now.


I know it's just a personal view but I'm not excited about any of these blue sky ideas. They feel more of the same to me. More flashy IP with little substance. I want them to go back to more Tower of Terror, Everest and Pandora attractions.

I share your sentiments. I have no confidence in any pie-in-the-sky D23 lookie-here announcement. Not after the huge disappointment that their Epcot plans became.

Looking toward the near future, what is WDW definitely getting? A re-theming of Splash and the eventual removal of the ever-present walls in Epcot. Oh, and two new DVC properties. Until they put shovels to the ground, there's just nothing to get me excited for a return visit.

 

[flynnibus]

I never said better for the guest. Calm down pal.

Uhh… nothing i said was about the benefit of the guest. I’m talking about how hard it is to make $20 in profit on lower margin, lower closure rate sales vs a 100% margin $20 sale.

getting people out of lines with fastpass was to drive opportunities… but opportunity pales in comparison to direct conversion

Better for the company. It was a response to why you don't see CMs stationed in large queues selling like major parks used to do.

Fastpass was created with the concept of people standing in line, not in shops or at food and beverage locations were not spending money. Guests would see virtually waiting as a benefit but have opportunites to spend. Better for the company.

And the company has moved beyond that idea by simply taking a higher margin product with better closure rate.

What is better for the company… operating a food stand that sells to a tiny fraction of customers and makes like 40% margin… or just taking $20 out of your pocket?

Let me sum it up for you.

Family spent 15 per person on Genie Plus and got more sodas and snacks throughout their day with the time saved in-between attractions.

Think about how many drinks that person has to buy to return $15 in profit… and the percentage of people that would do it.

Lack of vending in queues has nothing to do with paid fastpass philosophy. it’s to do with the negatives of increasing the presence of f&b in queues and low yield. It’s simply a poor return vs alternatives.

Its a customer perk that isn’t worth it for ghe company. Thats it

 

[Nubs70]

The Wall Street response, while not surprising, is actually the thing the worries me the most. It very likely gets us a CEO who is unwilling to invest in the parks if the board caves into that kind of reaction. At that point we are back to early Iger or worse.

As for the current park plans, I would say the Destination D changes were an improvement from the D23 last year and gave me some hope they are heading in the right direction. Ideally, they continue to make intelligent changes and add new, actually thought out plans. I expect we will know for sure at D23 next year. That would give them a year and a half since Iger brought Bruce Vaughn back to run Imagineering to rework any plans that already existed and create some new ones.

If you can get a CEO to spin off other assets and retain P&R, P&R would become a self sustaining money machine with funds for upkeep and possible expansion. Instead of serving as a host to malperforming parasites.

Sad thing for Iger "The Aquisition King" is he needs to divest. His ego needs to destroy what he has built.... oh and find a successor in the next 15 months.

 

[flynnibus]

If you can get a CEO to spin off other assets and retain P&R, P&R would become a self sustaining money machine with funds for upkeep and possible expansion. Instead of serving as a host to malperforming parasites.

Part of what keeps p&r so profitable is the restraint against expansion. In both keeping up exclusivity and keeping overhead in check.

People who go 15 times in 5yrs don’t want to accept that… but it’s part of keeping the trend line in place.

 

[Dranth]

If you can get a CEO to spin off other assets and retain P&R, P&R would become a self sustaining money machine with funds for upkeep and possible expansion. Instead of serving as a host to malperforming parasites.

Sad thing for Iger "The Aquisition King" is he needs to divest. His ego needs to destroy what he has built.... oh and find a successor in the next 15 months.

Other than the broadcast segment of ABC what should they unload?

• Steaming is finally going to be in the black and will make them money going forward.
• The studios are on a bad run but why assume this year is the norm instead of it being an anomaly?
• ESPN is going to make them money as long as people want to watch sports, even if it pivots to a streaming platform at some point in the future.
• The cruise line is doing great.

Do you feel the same way about Comcast? Should they dump their studios, streaming and NBC? If not, why?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Other than the broadcast segment of ABC what should they unload?

• Steaming is finally going to be in the black and will make them money going forward.
• The studios are on a bad run but why assume this year is the norm instead of it being an anomaly?
• ESPN is going to make them money as long as people want to watch sports, even if it pivots to a streaming platform at some point in the future.
• The cruise line is doing great.

Do you feel the same way about Comcast? Should they dump their studios, streaming and NBC? If not, why?

Now that they will own Hulu, they should shut down D+ and use Hulu to stream content sa well as sell their content to other streamers.

 

[JoeCamel]

If you can get a CEO to spin off other assets and retain P&R, P&R would become a self sustaining money machine with funds for upkeep and possible expansion. Instead of serving as a host to malperforming parasites.

Sad thing for Iger "The Aquisition King" is he needs to divest. His ego needs to destroy what he has built.... oh and find a successor in the next 15 months.

If they spun off the parks the parks would have to pay to use the ips. Makes it not so profitable

 

[Dranth]

Now that they will own Hulu, they should shut down D+ and use Hulu to stream content sa well as sell their content to other streamers.

They will combine them and likely rotate some older material on other streamers that are willing to pay. I'm sure they will also eliminate all duplicate positions and offload any unneeded equipment. Personally I would rather them move Hulu onto D+ as it has a higher bitrate in my experience.

 

[celluloid]

Uhh… nothing i said was about the benefit of the guest. I’m talking about how hard it is to make $20 in profit on lower margin, lower closure rate sales vs a 100% margin $20 sale.

getting people out of lines with fastpass was to drive opportunities… but opportunity pales in comparison to direct conversion


And the company has moved beyond that idea by simply taking a higher margin product with better closure rate.

What is better for the company… operating a food stand that sells to a tiny fraction of customers and makes like 40% margin… or just taking $20 out of your pocket?



Think about how many drinks that person has to buy to return $15 in profit… and the percentage of people that would do it.

Lack of vending in queues has nothing to do with paid fastpass philosophy. it’s to do with the negatives of increasing the presence of f&b in queues and low yield. It’s simply a poor return vs alternatives.

Its a customer perk that isn’t worth it for ghe company. Thats it

You really just agreed with me with your entire rant.

Slow down when you read.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If you can get a CEO to spin off other assets and retain P&R, P&R would become a self sustaining money machine with funds for upkeep and possible expansion. Instead of serving as a host to malperforming parasites.

Sad thing for Iger "The Aquisition King" is he needs to divest. His ego needs to destroy what he has built.... oh and find a successor in the next 15 months.

If they spun off P&R, how could the original Disney company stay in business? P&R is the company’s main source of income.

Every movie they make costs more to make and market than the money they bring in. We know D+ is not making money yet, we don’t know how long it will actually take to make money. The company estimates it will make money eventually, but they won’t hit their target.

 

[flynnibus]

You really just agreed with me with your entire rant.

Slow down when you read.

This statement...

Lack of vending in queues has nothing to do with paid fastpass philosophy.

Does not support this...

Fastpass as its original use and Fastpass Plus was never created so people could just virtually wait. It was the same revenue as people waiting with someone selling things in line, but better, as far more people would be passing far more opportunities to spend. It is more effective and less staffing than putting more people in queues.

Once again you mix apples and pineapples and claim 'Ha! see you agree!".

Vending in queues simply is bad for Disney's operating standards. Same idea why putting games in the queues was bad. A discussion around vending needs was never "we'll get people out of the queues instead!" nor did it evolve to "and now we get people to pay to get out too! We win!". You brought pineapples (virtual queues) to the apple festival (operations, custodial and show standards).