Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Jrb1979]

He might be happier on a Six Flags site or something.

Six Flags parks are garbage.

 

[BuddyThomas]

We had the best time, always do! My 2 year old asks to go back every day. The prices are tough right now. My husband and I have luckily climbed up in working class jobs and can afford vacations. But the prices the last few years make me feel almost irresponsible going. Day to day living is just so costly right now. Even though we’re generally very good with money and always save every penny before going.

The cost is out of control, true. But people keep paying so they keep charging - Not great for the average customer but..,,,,,grrrrr.,,,,.

Six Flags parks are garbage.

Nope. Try Magic Mountain before you mouth off again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

It had nothing to do with liking Disney. My comment about Heads in the sand was to do with dismissing the fact attendance is down. WDW is more than just parks. It was posted in this thread they are at a 21 year low.

If they are at a 21 year low, time to book a trip!

 

[Jrb1979]

The cost is out of control, true. But people keep paying so they keep charging - Not great for the average customer but..,,,,,grrrrr.,,,,.

Nope. Try Magic Mountain before you mouth off again.

Give me Knotts, Dollywood or Cedar Point over any garbage Six Flags park.

If they are at a 21 year low, time to book a trip!

Nope. It's not the crowds that keep me away. It's a combination of the changes since COVID. Genie+ is one, the cost is another. If they offered a ticket deal like Universal I would be all over it.

At almost double the price for a week vacation at the end of January compared to Universal it's hard to justify the price.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Give me Knotts, Dollywood or Cedar Point over any garbage Six Flags park.


Nope. It's not the crowds that keep me away. It's a combination of the changes since COVID. Genie+ is one, the cost is another. If they offered a ticket deal like Universal I would be all over it.

At almost double the price for a week vacation at the end of January compared to Universal it's hard to justify the price.

Sounds like you are very unhappy with them. Time to book a trip elsewhere!

 

[Touchdown]

Yup. Universal has also been much slower than usual, but the WDW haters on this board don’t want you to think about that.

Except it hasn’t, Universal is having its busiest HHN ever, they stopped selling their HHN frequent fear passes for the first time, they have sold out of RIP tours, and sold out of Express for most nights. HHN is a significant portion of yearly attendance. On my trip a few weeks ago, weekend attendance was very high as well.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Except it hasn’t, Universal is having its busiest HHN ever, they stopped selling their HHN frequent fear passes for the first time, they have sold out of RIP tours, and sold out of Express for most nights. HHN is a significant portion of yearly attendance. On my trip a few weeks ago, weekend attendance was very high as well.

Looking at attendance for a special event as a barometer of overall attendance is ridiculous. That’s like me saying WDW attendance is not down because Mickey’s Not So Scary sold out every night and attendance was high when I was there several weeks ago as well. The fact is, overall, crowds have been down at Universal, in much they same way they have been down at WDW.

 

[Touchdown]

Looking at attendance for a special event as a barometer of overall attendance is ridiculous. That’s like me saying WDW attendance is not down because Mickey’s Not So Scary sold out every night and attendance was high when I was there several weeks ago as well. The fact is, overall, crowds have been down at Universal, in much they same way they have been down at WDW.

MNSSHP is a 4 times a week much lower attendance capped event at one of four parks. HHN is a 5 times a week, where crowds at the park regularly exceed normal operating attendance numbers at one of two parks, the tickets are more expensive then regular park tickets, and express buy in is far greater then normal hours.

They are night and day and Disney wished they had this event. Universal, much like regional theme parks, has come to rely on Halloween events as their most popular and profitable period of the year. Without HHN it’s highly likely Universal Orlando would not have survived its post IOA pre Potter days, the event literally kept them afloat. It’s to this day a significant portion of revenues, why do you think Universal is constantly increasing investment in it? Yes MNSSHP gets a 4 week jump on it, but I guarantee you HHN has more gross and net profits then MNSSHP. I would also hazard a guess that HHN alone makes up 20-30% of yearly profits at the resort, not including day tickets in Sept/oct.

 

[JusticeDisney]

MNSSHP is a 4 times a week much lower attendance capped event at one of four parks. HHN is a 5 times a week, where crowds at the park regularly exceed normal operating attendance numbers at one of two parks, the tickets are more expensive then regular park tickets, and express buy in is far greater then normal hours.

They are night and day and Disney wished they had this event. Universal, much like regional theme parks, has come to rely on Halloween events as their most popular and profitable period of the year. Without HHN it’s highly likely Universal Orlando would not have survived its post IOA pre Potter days, the event literally kept them afloat. It’s to this day a significant portion of revenues, why do you think Universal is constantly increasing investment in it? Yes MNSSHP gets a 4 week jump on it, but I guarantee you HHN has more gross and net profits then MNSSHP. I would also hazard a guess that HHN alone makes up 20-30% of yearly profits at the resort, not including day tickets in Sept/oct.

Again, the idea that attendance at a special event which happens for a limited time during the year is some sort of barometer for overall park attendance is ridiculous. You can think whatever you want, but crowd numbers have recently been lower at Universal, just like they have been at WDW. That’s just the fact of the matter. Trying to turn this into a HHN vs MNSS debate is completely irrelevant to the point at hand, but have at it if you wish.

 

[Touchdown]

Again, the idea that attendance at a special event which happens for a limited time during the year is some sort of barometer for overall park attendance is ridiculous. You can think whatever you want, but crowd numbers have recently been lower at Universal, just like they have been at WDW. That’s just the fact of the matter. Trying to turn this into a HHN vs MNSS debate is completely irrelevant to the point at hand, but have at it if you wish.

Attendance may have been lighter this summer, but I’m trying to make a point that next quarterly report Universal I bet shows gains on 2022, while Disney still reports losses.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Attendance may have been lighter this summer, but I’m trying to make a point that next quarterly report Universal I bet shows gains on 2022, while Disney still reports losses.

Could be.

 

[LSLS]

Despite what you think I never said WDW is as busy as it ever has been. Rather, I said that it is still very busy, which is a fact. I know that because I have seen it with my own eyes during my recent trips. As for your forecast, abysmal? Yeah, ok. LOL!

I mean, define busy? You say it's very busy and that is a fact. But you would need to define what busy is, and show numbers to back that up to make it a fact. Are we talking on average for a quarter? The year? On an individual day?

The attendance numbers are going to be FASCINATING when they come out, because I think it's very fair to question if the feel of the parks are being artificially elevated based on the availability of dining reservations and hotel rooms, or if the customer patterns have really changed dramatically.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I mean, define busy? You say it's very busy and that is a fact. But you would need to define what busy is, and show numbers to back that up to make it a fact. Are we talking on average for a quarter? The year? On an individual day?

The attendance numbers are going to be FASCINATING when they come out, because I think it's very fair to question if the feel of the parks are being artificially elevated based on the availability of dining reservations and hotel rooms, or if the customer patterns have really changed dramatically.

No, I actually don’t need to cite to specific numbers to know it has been busy. All I need is to see all the people there and the lengths of the lines for the attractions, all of which I have seen with my own two eyes.

That said, I do agree that when the numbers are released it will be very interesting to see.

 

[Jrb1979]

No, I actually don’t need to cite to specific numbers to know it has been busy. All I need is to see all the people there and the lengths of the lines for the attractions, all of which I have seen with my own two eyes.

That said, I do agree that when the numbers are released it will be very interesting to see.

The parks will still feel busy and have long lines even if they are down 5-10%. Judging from all the discounts, people choosing to stay off-site and the availability of dining tells me that people still want to go the parks. But are cutting back on resort stays and dining to save money.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The cost is out of control, true. But people keep paying so they keep charging - Not great for the average customer but..,,,,,grrrrr.,,,,.

Regarding wdw…we have gotten daily…nearly constant reports from the longtime travelers…not to mention people on the ground…of a rather steep and noticeable decline in attendance in the parks and hotels…

What’s really telling is the amount of travel agents who have commented on the booking glut. They “see the future”…as it were and have been 100% consistent.

So my question is: do you not read that…or don’t believe it?

Im being serious…that’s not a loaded question?

 

[JusticeDisney]

The parks will still feel busy and have long lines even if they are down 5-10%. Judging from all the discounts, people choosing to stay off-site and the availability of dining tells me that people still want to go the parks. But are cutting back on resort stays and dining to save money.

Agree with every word.

 

[JD80]

2019 was a good year, 2022 was a good year, 2023 started a decline, 2024 is looking like it'll be pretty bad (or good for people looking for a deal).

Without any major attractions coming in the next 2 years, I would look to general public ticket deals/discounts as their panic point.

Right now, they have an under 10 discount that is tied to spending more money with a dining plan (and a hotel if you were planning to stay offsite).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Except it hasn’t, Universal is having its busiest HHN ever, they stopped selling their HHN frequent fear passes for the first time, they have sold out of RIP tours, and sold out of Express for most nights. HHN is a significant portion of yearly attendance. On my trip a few weeks ago, weekend attendance was very high as well.

Universal has a lot of the same reports wdw is getting…really noticeable down days…travel agents saying demand is down…

So that is a problem for them

But uni is in active, tangible expansion and has added - frankly - better additions for 10 years…
…so the local market appears to be boosting them much more than down the street? HHN being mobbed supports that theory as well…

Gee? I wonder what might be more attractive at universal if you’re a Florida resident?
Any ideas?

 

[LSLS]

No, I actually don’t need to cite to specific numbers to know it has been busy. All I need is to see all the people there and the lengths of the lines for the attractions, all of which I have seen with my own two eyes.

That said, I do agree that when the numbers are released it will be very interesting to see.

So then your definition of busy doesn't actually involve the number of people in the parks, it's more about how long the lines are for attractions. It very much could feel busy (as I've stated a bunch, my July 4th trip was the most dead I've ever seen the parks, but I have no real reference outside that one week), but I'm not sure it feeling busy makes it busy, which is why I'm asking for your definition. If McDonald's has 700 customers who wait an average of 30 seconds for their food one day, and then 400 customers who wait an average of 2 minutes for their food the next day, was the second day busier because the line was longer? Or was the first day busier because it had more people going through?

The parks will still feel busy and have long lines even if they are down 5-10%. Judging from all the discounts, people choosing to stay off-site and the availability of dining tells me that people still want to go the parks. But are cutting back on resort stays and dining to save money.

I totally believe it can feel busy, I simply took issue with it being said as a fact without even knowing what is being measured. I do wonder how many are even staying off site as well. I've seen the springs hotels under $100, and the 192 ones as low as $35. I honestly just have no idea what's going on. All the evidence to me shows it should be less busy other than wait times for attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The parks will still feel busy and have long lines even if they are down 5-10%. Judging from all the discounts, people choosing to stay off-site and the availability of dining tells me that people still want to go the parks. But are cutting back on resort stays and dining to save money.

The reason they “feel busy” was on purpose from 10-20 years ago. That’s Bob.

But that’s just the rides. That’s not where the money is made.

The estimated gate clicks in 2000 were about 44,000,000…in 2018 I think it was like 58,000,000?!?

And the ride capacity is up Maybe 5-10%?
If that?

This is not really hard math. And of course 100% deliberate…to save costs and then gouge all of us based on THAT decision.

We don’t have to boycott the place…go and have fun. But there’s no sense lying about the how? And the why?