Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

mysto

Well-Known Member
Same with hotel stays. Which means either A.) They are not running anything close to capacity which is keeping lines longer than they should be, B.) The constant eliminations of perks and quality have finally caught up to them and people aren't going to pay those exorbitant prices for the lack of stuff, or C.) Equal parts of both.
D) Lots of AP visits.

... but I think the others you note count too, especially running below capacity.
 

jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Except Disney attendance isn't down. Both Disney and Universal are busy parks.

Except Disney themselves have admitted that their attendance is down at WDW. It was in their investor's report they gave when they reported on their last quarterly earnings.

Just because the lines are long doesn't mean attendance is up - it means they're most likely not running at full capacity. Why? Because attendance is down. All you have to do is look at the hotel availability and dining availability to know attendance is down. As it was stated before - you might not notice a 5 or 10% drop, but it's greatly noticed by the Mouse.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
I'm a local, and I visit the parks consistently. Parks are busy, but they're not 2022 crowd levels, definitely a dip in attendance.

The biggest point is that WDW attendance feels similar to 2019, BUT Universal is vastly busier than 2019. It's impressive to see the strides UOR has made.

SeaWorld is a ghost town outside of Saturdays when they push a passholder perk lol
 

EPCOT-O.G.

Well-Known Member
Just because the lines are long doesn't mean attendance is up - it means they're most likely not running at full capacity. Why? Because attendance is down. All you have to do is look at the hotel availability and dining availability to know attendance is down. As it was stated before - you might not notice a 5 or 10% drop, but it's greatly noticed by the Mouse.
Exactly this. Lower expected attendance means less workers staffed, which means, say, only one theater open for Soarin and Avatar and 30/90 minute waits instead of 5/35. Or only running one bank of elevators on TOT so the “WAIT TIMES!!!?!!” look like it’s crowded when it’s not.

No different than when you walked into a near-empty restaurant in late 2020 and the wait was 20 minutes- because of labor shortfalls, not because they didn’t have available seating.
 

Drdcm

Well-Known Member
With the new discounts coming out today it's not sounding like it's getting better any time soon.

Book by December 15th and get up to 30% off most nights through March 24th. Sounds like they can't even fill resorts for spring break
While I agree they seem to have a hotel occupancy problem, at least up until 2018, 30% room only discount was pretty standard for that timeframe. That’s what we normally not for discounts for our annual trip.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
ah yes those were pretty good

I'm still waiting for Wolfgang Puck's Express to come back... one of my favorites
That was my inexpensive day back in the day. Lunch at the patio of Wolfgang Puck, double espresso colada at the walk up window of Bongos, spend a few hours listening to the music on headphones at Virgin, read the books and magazines on second floor of Virgin then see a movie at AMC Downtown Disney next door.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
That was my inexpensive day back in the day. Lunch at the patio of Wolfgang Puck, double espresso colada at the walk up window of Bongos, spend a few hours listening to the music on headphones at Virgin, read the books and magazines on second floor of Virgin then see a movie at AMC Downtown Disney next door.
I am not a Floridian, but have been to WDW over 50 times - DVC owner. When I am asked about the best places to eat, I always ranked Wolfgang Puck Express as the best place for the money. Ranked better than many full service restaurants and the best Counter Service Rest in all of WDW. How does the song go "Only the good die young", such was the closing of this Establishment.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
I'm a local, and I visit the parks consistently. Parks are busy, but they're not 2022 crowd levels, definitely a dip in attendance.

The biggest point is that WDW attendance feels similar to 2019, BUT Universal is vastly busier than 2019. It's impressive to see the strides UOR has made.

SeaWorld is a ghost town outside of Saturdays when they push a passholder perk lol

According to AECOM (page 14), WDW 2022 attendance was down 20% vs 2019.

In numbers:
  • 2019 WDW attendance: 58,778,000
  • 2022 WDW attendance: 47,060,000
To put 2022 in perspective, that's a decade's worth of lost attendance growth vs 2019.

I suspect 2023 will be down somewhere between 10% and 20% vs 2022, so roughly 37.6MM to 42.4MM.

WDW's attendance in 2003 was about 37.6MM.

So in the worst-case scenario, WDW will have lost 20 years of attendance growth, up to around 21MM guests.

I know that WDW has increased prices enough to offset a lot of that. But the impact to Central Florida's economy from having 21 million fewer guests in the theme parks cannot be overstated.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
According to AECOM (page 14), WDW 2022 attendance was down 20% vs 2019.

In numbers:
  • 2019 WDW attendance: 58,778,000
  • 2022 WDW attendance: 47,060,000
To put 2022 in perspective, that's a decade's worth of lost attendance growth vs 2019.

I suspect 2023 will be down somewhere between 10% and 20% vs 2022, so roughly 37.6MM to 42.4MM.

WDW's attendance in 2003 was about 37.6MM.

So in the worst-case scenario, WDW will have lost 20 years of attendance growth, up to around 21MM guests.

I know that WDW has increased prices enough to offset a lot of that. But the impact to Central Florida's economy from having 21 million fewer guests in the theme parks cannot be overstated.

Living in Celebration, I can tell US192 is taking a beating at the moment (though, that's been in a decline for years)

I think both WDW/UOR got a little too excited over the last few years with their price increases, and are responding to it accordingly with a ridiculous amount of vacation/ticket deals.

However, Orlando's population has grown significantly during that time frame, so it kind of balances/stagnates things out a bit
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Living in Celebration, I can tell US192 is taking a beating at the moment (though, that's been in a decline for years)

I think both WDW/UOR got a little too excited over the last few years with their price increases, and are responding to it accordingly with a ridiculous amount of vacation/ticket deals.

However, Orlando's population has grown significantly during that time frame, so it kind of balances/stagnates things out a bit
To live in Celebration is like living in a bubble in a good way. Venture on US192 going through Kissimmee and into St Cloud is a whole different world / experience.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
To live in Celebration is like living in a bubble in a good way. Venture on US192 going through Kissimmee and into St Cloud is a whole different world / experience.

Yeah, if you just drove through US 192, you'd question the big population boom in Florida. Go elsewhere and there are apartments being built in every corner.

I'm sure the city/counties are looking forward to Epic Universe boosting attendance, which it should, but outside of that the population boom is already in a decline. The county actually recognized the importance of diversifying the economy a few years back, even before Covid, to draw major corporations to places like Lake Nona. So let's see what happens
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Yeah, if you just drove through US 192, you'd question the big population boom in Florida. Go elsewhere and there are apartments being built in every corner.

I'm sure the city/counties are looking forward to Epic Universe boosting attendance, which it should, but outside of that the population boom is already in a decline. The county actually recognized the importance of diversifying the economy a few years back, even before Covid, to draw major corporations to places like Lake Nona. So let's see what happens
Perhaps look and see the areas that border US 192 and the main road in general and beyond the touristy T shirt shops . You enter Celebration into another world and reality hits home when you get on the main road.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
oh great now I have to move 😄


yeah the new Publix (and an upcoming Wawa) on World Drive has spoiled me now lol
When Wawa opened up the first FL location near Sea World Orlando more than 10 years ago , some Northerners who lived in Central FL and or on vacation showed up at the grand opening and even Governor Rick Scott came for the ribbon cutting ceremony. The chicken tender sub made at the Publix deli with all the fixings is worth the trip.
 

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