Inside WDW new space mountain 11/10/09

[moreno]

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

what i seem to be missing in all of this is how it was exactly promised. as far as i know, these ideas were always just that...ideas. yes maybe at one point all or some were on the table at different times. but being thrown into the discussion as a "what if" is quite different than actually becoming something that planned to happen. anyone could have thrown out anything. behind all projects there are "what ifs...".

 

[CrashNet]

All I know is I'm going in December and will be sitting in the front seat. Updates or not, it will be my most-visited attraction. No other ride I've ridden in my life instantly turns me into a kid every time.

 

[sponono88]

what i seem to be missing in all of this is how it was exactly promised. as far as i know, these ideas were always just that...ideas. yes maybe at one point all or some were on the table at different times. but being thrown into the discussion as a "what if" is quite different than actually becoming something that planned to happen. anyone could have thrown out anything. behind all projects there are "what ifs...".

I don't think anything was promised or officially announced.. but it's something most people were initially expecting (a DL-style rehab). Not 100% sure, but I believe DL received most of the things on that list.

 

[moreno]

I don't think anything was promised or officially announced.. but it's something most people were initially expecting (a DL-style rehab). Not 100% sure, but I believe DL received most of the things on that list.

got that. but the question remains. "what could have been" exists for literally EVERYTHING, in any disney park. what is left on the blue sky cutting room floor should stay in glendale...not really sure what good is coming from these leaks, when all it does is lead to unrealistic expectations

 

[xtimMOOthyx]

I'm tired of words...

I wish someone were able to get pictures.

 

[Timmay]

This may seem odd to several of you...but I think I may actually wait until I get to see it with my own two eyes and experience it for myself before I am so bold as to declare it a failure, being as my crystal ball is on the shop. I must have purchased mine from a cheap vendor...beyou guys can tell me where you got yours so I can see so well into the future.

LOL...you naysayers always provide me with adequate entertainment when I am away from WDW!!

 

[Studios Fan]

I'm tired of words...

I wish someone were able to get pictures.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[mickey2008.1]

Ha! Beautiful post!

thanks!

 

[djkidkaz]

Okay... since Lee has spoken, I`ll add my bit, though I was going to wait until the Mountain reopened. I`ll post, not quote, and obviously there are similarities in what we know because, well, it`s what we know.

I`ve been following the project since 2005 when Disneylands Mountain reopened. On that day members of WDI assigned to the Orlando refurb were there to see what had been done and how it could be applied to WDW. So I know the original 18 month overhaul was being planned over 4 years ago.

The list;

Close the mountain last January, reopen early next summer.
New exterior show lighting package (later downgraded to if budget allows)
Exterior decor package (scrapped early on)
New preshow (would have been next to go if budget shrunk anymore)
New load decor, airgates, ceilings with separate projections. The latter seems to have been a bone of contention. It was on, then scrapped, then WDI were back remeasuring the ceiling space after a compromise was decided upon.
New RCS and 101/2 application (implemented)
4 `silent` lifts
New show visual effects, including all tunnels, lift hill show scene, ceiling projection and starfield projections (projections mostly implemented I`m told aside from some bigger effects)
New physical visual props
Totally new cars with onboard score using a new version of Soundtracker. WDI were doing 3rd shift tests in the middle of last year with a very temporary audio rig on one car, using portions of the DL score as a test. They were very happy. The exit loop currently playing was meant as a `teaser` for what was to come. An in-joke if you knew it.
New support structure and totally new tracks of the same layout. A new layout was never seriously considered from what I know. Scrapped.
Strengthened 1975 support structure and `tweaked/smoothed` existing tracks. I`m told the support structure has indeed been partially strengthened with an eye to the future.
Refurbed existing cars. Implemented.
Totally new unload area decor and totally new postshow, budget allowing. It seems it didn`t.

A new marketing launch to fill the void of nothing else to show, running off the success of the HM, the HoP and partially PotC. This and a big JC refurb were the last parts of the plan to overhaul all the major attractions of the MK for the 40th. PotC, the HM, the JC and SM all swapped places in the queue multiple times.

Thats great that you guys get information on what might happen, but we all know that Imagineers shoot for the best and real life gets in the way. Its just annoying to keep beating a dead horse. The board doesn't need anyone to confirm that Imagineering has great plans. Im sure there were more plans for HM, HoP and PotC that got axed. Imagineers worked on ideas that had Everest alot larger in size than it actually ended up being, so should we be disappointed with what we got? Every attraction being built or refurbed goes through a phase of shooting for the stars and then the imagineers have to contend with what to do with the budget. There is no blank check for every project. These aren't the days of Walt. When Walt was around it was his company and he wanted what he wanted and put the money into it because it was his own dream.

 

[_Scar]

Thats great that you guys get information on what might happen, but we all know that Imagineers shoot for the best and real life gets in the way. Its just annoying to keep beating a dead horse. The board doesn't need anyone to confirm that Imagineering has great plans. Im sure there were more plans for HM, HoP and PotC that got axed. Imagineers worked on ideas that had Everest alot larger in size than it actually ended up being, so should we be disappointed with what we got? Every attraction being built or refurbed goes through a phase of shooting for the stars and then the imagineers have to contend with what to do with the budget. There is no blank check for every project. These aren't the days of Walt. When Walt was around it was his company and he wanted what he wanted and put the money into it because it was his own dream.

I can assure you 100% that Everest would NOT have been bigger. Why you ask? Because of a big, red blinking dot. I believe it's at roughly 189 feet atm, so it doesn't have much room to expand. They made it as tall they could've ever made it.

Pretty sure HoP was basically fully passed with its budget, which was probably smaller than the others. Haunted Mansion was just pure success. WDI used their resources and made the ride a great success even after many rumors of budget cuts. There's no excuse for Space. They've done these kind of refurbs, what, 4 times now... they should know we the fans expect to see HM/HoP changes.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I expect that the things that have been modified will be a significant improvement. That in itself is a positive.

The problem that most of us are anticipating is that not enough has been modified, namely on board audio and improved on ride effects. I think the elements that we are likely to get were all things on the wish list, they just may not have been at the top of the wish list.

 

[PhantomX]

Can you imagine what Splash Mountain, star tours, pirates of the caribbean, and Haunted Mansion would have been like if the current leadership was incharge back then? They would have had miniscule budgets and those rides would long be forgotten now

 

[djkidkaz]

Its as someone else stated, how much stuff is left cut on the blue sky floor? Where do the "what ifs" stop? I have no problem with Lee or Martin, hell I don't even know them, there just two dudes who post on a message board that I visit. My issue is just that I disagree with the way they seem to look at things. Maybe I'd be the same way if I kept hearing about all the ideas that were planned and then cut. You have two groups of people on this board, glass half empty, glass half full. I'd be excited if SM had gotten new track and onboard audio and whatever else Imagineers would have added, but just because it didn't happen I have to look at what we did get and make a decision about it. Disney NEVER publically said any of that was happening, so I can't fault them for not doing it. Everyone just has to agree to disagree because you'll never get to a point where everyone from one point of view changes their mind and we end up with 100% agreement. Theres too many people who post here just to complain and stir the pot.

 

[the-reason14]

Looking back through this thread, I really haven't seen the scores of posters fawning over the refurb that some have suggested are there. There might be one or two people who've gushed, but by and large the positive posts tend to boil down to just two distinct points: (1) appreciation for the limited aspect of the refurb (enclosed queue and interactive elements) that has been shown so far; and (2) the opinion that WDW's SM -- with or without a refurb -- is superior to or more enjoyable than the DL-style SMs. Having and expressing either or both of these views isn't in any way inconsistent with concurrently holding the opinion that Disney could have done much more with the refurb (and disappointment that they didn't), or the opinion that WDW is lacking in so many ways when compared to any number of other Disney parks.

And having a generally positive opinion of what we know of the refurb so far also does not mean that the poster (1) has never ridden another SM; (2) has never experienced any Disney park outside of WDW; (3) will be 100% satisifed with the refurb as a whole once it's fully revealed; and/or (4) is satisfied with mediocrity generally, or is an apologist for Disney with blinders on.

Sometimes people just have different opinions. Just because I'm sorely disappointed that we won't have the Lights of Winter this year doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who is glad for the removal, and has always thought that the lights are an eyesore that obscures a panoramic view. I might not agree with that opinion, but that doesn't mean that the person who holds the opinion is satisfied with mediocrity or is happy that WDW parks are routinely neglected and given second-class treatment compared to other Disney parks -- it might just mean that he or she prefers something else.

There are some things that we didn't get that would have enhanced my enjoyment -- such as silent lift hills. There are some things that would not have made that much of a difference -- such as "smoother" track. (It would make the ride marginally better, I suppose, but I've never thought it was that bumpy anyway, and I've ridden it since the '70s.) And there are some things that I'm glad we didn't get, because it would detract from the experience -- such as onboard audio. But my opinion, taken as a whole, relates solely to a very specific focus: Space Mountain. It has nothing to do with, and should not be taken as a proxy for my opinion on, the Lights of Winter, or the Adventurers Club, or SGE, or peeling paint, or any number of other issues.

In the end, all that matters to me is that I really enjoy WDW's SM, and I can't wait to ride it again very soon.

You know what, you are absolutely right. If some people's opinion is that the space refurb is lackluster so be it. It's there perogative to feel that way and they are not wrong in those feelings. If people feel that WDW doesn't offer what it once did, then thats on them too. I can agree to disagree. I too feel at times that WDW as a whole has dropped the ball. But imo, Space mt. is not one of them. I didnt really see much of a need for it to close in the first place, but after riding DL's, Im glad that they decided to take some time and spruce it up a bit. I can understand why some folk want onboard audio as it is a major enhancement at DL.

But on a personal level, from what I see, I am pleased with the result of this refurb. No on board audio doesnt bother me, if they decided to add some in later, thats cool. But Im just glad that they decided to do something, and keep it the classic that it is. Space mt. is my absolute fav. ride in all of WDW, and I cant wait to ride it in Jan. Thats whats up.

 

[_Scar]

I expect that the things that have been modified will be a significant improvement. That in itself is a positive.

The problem that most of us are anticipating is that not enough has been modified, namely on board audio and improved on ride effects. I think the elements that we are likely to get were all things on the wish list, they just may not have been at the top of the wish list.

The queue was a problem....


but since when did we need an on ride photo or interactive new games?

Sounds like they put some things on the list that weren't really of high priority. The ride was SO shaky and lacked special effects the last time I rode it. I guess they need my money for an onride photo more...

TDO, why?!
:shrug:

I'm still excited about the queue though... I might just have to skip out on that fastpass and join the 60 minute line :lol:

 

[the-reason14]

The insiders have said all along that there was going to be some que work, and a ceiling over the load area. I've never heard anything different. :shrug:

They've also said that there was minor track replacement in the ride to fix a couple trouble spots.

The frustration people have about this isn't what DID get done... It's what DIDN'T. Again, if you read what I've said, I think what they've done looks good... And if there's a new re-entry and launch tunnel, I'll personally give this refurb a passing grade in my book. But you seem to pass right over those statements I make and instead focus on the negative.

I dont remember reading that. On here I remember some people saying dont expect much to look different. And I was honestly upset that it would close down for the months it did without nothing on the que being done. After seeing the pics, Im glad thats not true.

And it seems that you are the one who is focusing on the negative. Are you the same poster that said SM was/is the same bumpy crap since the 70s? If not I apoligize. But either way, I detected negativity over this rehab from you from the jump.

 

[PhantomX]

Its as someone else stated, how much stuff is left cut on the blue sky floor? Where do the "what ifs" stop? I have no problem with Lee or Martin, hell I don't even know them, there just two dudes who post on a message board that I visit. My issue is just that I disagree with the way they seem to look at things. Maybe I'd be the same way if I kept hearing about all the ideas that were planned and then cut. You have two groups of people on this board, glass half empty, glass half full. I'd be excited if SM had gotten new track and onboard audio and whatever else Imagineers would have added, but just because it didn't happen I have to look at what we did get and make a decision about it. Disney NEVER publically said any of that was happening, so I can't fault them for not doing it. Everyone just has to agree to disagree because you'll never get to a point where everyone from one point of view changes their mind and we end up with 100% agreement. Theres too many people who post here just to complain and stir the pot.

But by defending their decision to go for the bare minimum you are basically saying to them that you will accept less and thus encourage them to continue to lower their standard. A dangerous precedent.

There is also a difference between a bluesky plan that would call for Space Mountain getting a new layout with loops and a launch (a real concept btw) and a fully budgeted plan to update/upgrade Space Mountain with a new track, audio, new effects like the Disneyland version. The Walt Disney Company of the 70s or 80s would have gone for the gold and done a version that exceeded what they did in Disneyland. Now we are told by Disney in essence to pay more and expect less.

It is time we started holding their feet to the fire. If you truely care about the quality of the product Disney offers you should be writing to phil holmes, jay rasolu, brian vaughn, john lasseter, al weiss and meg crofton experessing your disappointment.

 

[the-reason14]

Because turning it into a WORTHY next-gen e-ticket would be something they could advertise the absolute crap out of nationally, and directly impact attendance at WDW.

45 minute lines are there because it's what's available. And it's iconic. It's nostalgia. How many parents are in line with their kids because they want their kids to experience what they did as young kids? I know I will be in a month from now... But that doesn't mean that I don't think it needs to be changed.

Why not just keep a classic a classic and build other next gen e tickets. :shrug:They have the space to do that in MK or some other WDW park. To me, thats almost like saying, "Well lets completely change Pirates to be exactly like the movie. Add in Will Turner, Elizabeth, all the characters. Because then it would appeal more to the next generation etc." They're both classic MK attractions/experiences. They could still advertise it nationally like that.

 

[the-reason14]

You obviously don't read a WORD I post... For like, the past YEAR. But hey, no worries. Feel free to continue to judge and make false assumptions! :lol:

And you obviously didn't read what I said about DL's coaster layout. I AGREED with you. It's not very exciting. I already said that. I said that all the effects, audio, and lighting more than makes up for it. :wave:

I did read what you said, and I read how you agreed their layout sucks. But I disagreed with you when you say that the effects and all of that makes up for it and makes it better. Its a good ride, but when it all falls down its a roller coaster. And WDW's space is miles ahead more thrilling than DL. Like I said before, screw all of the fancy effects, I rather ride WDW's space as its more thrilling. DL needs those effects to make it a good ride, because as a coaster it just fails on all levels. But you can have your opinion, and Ill have mine. And I wont judge you because its just a difference of opinions.

 

[the-reason14]

forget about updated effects, new track and rockets, audio, and an enhanced exterior. The show doesn't matter - it's all about the thrilling coaster, right? :brick: If you want thrilling coasters then maybe you should go to Six Flags. I expect more from Disney.

No, the show does matter. And Space mt. has always been themed. I love coasters, yes. But Space mt. to me is the coaster. It has been updated, look at the pics posted again and you'll be able to see that. If your suggestion to me is to go to six flags because I love coasters, then my suggestion to you is to go to DL where "everybody" says there space mt is better. There you can ride a "coaster" that has a lot of flashing lights and an awesome score. But be warned, thats all it has going for it. Maybe theirs will pass your expectations, or atleast meet them. :shrug: