Inside WDW new space mountain 11/10/09

[Lee]

got that. but the question remains. "what could have been" exists for literally EVERYTHING, in any disney park. what is left on the blue sky cutting room floor should stay in glendale...not really sure what good is coming from these leaks, when all it does is lead to unrealistic expectations

Its as someone else stated, how much stuff is left cut on the blue sky floor? Where do the "what ifs" stop? I have no problem with Lee or Martin, hell I don't even know them, there just two dudes who post on a message board that I visit. My issue is just that I disagree with the way they seem to look at things. Maybe I'd be the same way if I kept hearing about all the ideas that were planned and then cut.

I just want to jump in and make one quick point.
The stuff that Martin and I both posted about a few pages back was not blue sky, Glendale round-table type stuff.
All of that was planned as part of an extensive, 12-18 month long refurbishment of Space Mountain. Planned, budgeted, moving along on it's way to implementation.
It was cut along the way, not at the beginning. Cut for many reasons, including money and time. Also because TDO saw how Tokyo did a smallish refurb of their SM, and figured they could get by with something similar.

I'm not trying to be a half-empty type guy, or to stir any pot. I'm just not that kind of person. I love Disney and expect the best. It pains me to see them settle for less, no matter what the reason. That includes stuff like closing food locations, cancelling things like Lights of Winter, building attractions that are less than they should be, and sacrificing show in favor of profit.

then my suggestion to you is to go to DL where "everybody" says there space mt is better. There you can ride a "coaster" that has a lot of flashing lights and an awesome score. But be warned, thats all it has going for it.

That's where opinion comes in. It's an argument that is not winnable, and shouldn't happen.
To me, DL's show is enough overcome it's weak layout. I'm just a "show" guy, I guess.
Doesn't make me right or you wrong. Folks around here need to learn to argue facts instead of opinion.

 

[WDW1974]

I just want to jump in and make one quick point.
The stuff that Martin and I both posted about a few pages back was not blue sky, Glendale round-table type stuff.
All of that was planned as part of an extensive, 12-18 month long refurbishment of Space Mountain. Planned, budgeted, moving along on it's way to implementation.
It was cut along the way, not at the beginning. Cut for many reasons, including money and time. Also because TDO saw how Tokyo did a smallish refurb of their SM, and figured they could get by with something similar.

And I just want to jump in (from our top secret 'Insiders' HQ buried six stories below TCFKaTAC at TSFKaPI, yes -- before you ask -- mold is a constant problem) and say that is 100% accurate.

All of that was PLANNED. A whole lot more never made it out of blue sky, but that just shows you how little is really being done now.

I'm not trying to be a half-empty type guy, or to stir any pot. I'm just not that kind of person.

You wanna play Good Insider/Bad Insider?:drevil:

I love Disney and expect the best. It pains me to see them settle for less, no matter what the reason. That includes stuff like closing food locations, cancelling things like Lights of Winter, building attractions that are less than they should be, and sacrificing show in favor of profit.

Um ... you mean running WDW the way things have been since Al Weiss rose to power in the mid-90s?

That's where opinion comes in. It's an argument that is not winnable, and shouldn't happen.
To me, DL's show is enough overcome it's weak layout. I'm just a "show" guy, I guess.
Doesn't make me right or you wrong. Folks around here need to learn to argue facts instead of opinion.

Yes. But people can't agree on facts. And when some folks have access to them and others don't, you get the typical online fun. Plus, there are a lot of kiddies here (doesn't anyone go to school?)

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

There you can ride a "coaster" that has a lot of flashing lights and an awesome score. But be warned, thats all it has going for it. Maybe theirs will pass your expectations, or atleast meet them. :shrug:

Out of curiosity, have you ever actually ridden DL's Space Mountain?

Besides the flashing lights and awesome score, DL's version has

-Incredible theming in the queue and post-show (we'll see what happens at MK)
-Exterior lighting that's really cool at night
-It's darker on the inside
-The music coincides with the lifts, turns, and dip, so it enhances the experience
-A smooth, comfortable track (like Everest). Honestly this makes a huge difference

These details add up. On-board audio would be appreciated, and the smoothness really is significant. It makes DL's Space Mountain feels like a pleasure to ride. MK's, on the other hand, could damage a healthy person's spine and I wouldn't be surprised.

The layout thing really doesn't matter that much to me. Honestly, MK's should have a better layout because the mountain is bigger, so there's more space to work with. But the jerkiness makes MK's SM almost painful to ride. It's a shame that this probably wasn't addressed at all.

 

[the-reason14]

Out of curiosity, have you ever actually ridden DL's Space Mountain?

Besides the flashing lights and awesome score, DL's version has

-Incredible theming in the queue and post-show (we'll see what happens at MK)
-Exterior lighting that's really cool at night
-It's darker on the inside
-The music coincides with the lifts, turns, and dip, so it enhances the experience
-A smooth, comfortable track (like Everest). Honestly this makes a huge difference

These details add up. On-board audio would be appreciated, and the smoothness really is significant. It makes DL's Space Mountain feels like a pleasure to ride. MK's, on the other hand, could damage a healthy person's spine and I wouldn't be surprised.

The layout thing really doesn't matter that much to me. Honestly, MK's should have a better layout because the mountain is bigger, so there's more space to work with. But the jerkiness makes MK's SM almost painful to ride. It's a shame that this probably wasn't addressed at all.

Yes I have. And WDW's should be getting all of that, minus the onboard audio and the projections. It should be darker and from what I've heard it is, it should be smoother because of new tracks. And the layout is better than DL's and its a more thrilling coaster and that makes it better to me. I dont care so much about the effects and stuff because DL's coaster is boring. Yes the audio is synced nicely and its a good ride, but not a good coaster.

 

[imagineer boy]

These details add up. On-board audio would be appreciated, and the smoothness really is significant. It makes DL's Space Mountain feels like a pleasure to ride. MK's, on the other hand, could damage a healthy person's spine and I wouldn't be surprised.

Agreed. Not only is DL's smooth, but it feels like its going extremely fast. WDW's feels slow and rickety while DL's is so smooth and fast, I literally had tears in my eyes from the wind even though I know its only going 35.

 

[RandySavage]

And I thought I had a rather large fan club.

For the record, I am in your fan club. We need guardians of The Standard.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

For the record, I am in your fan club. We need guardians of The Standard.

That is a much better title than "Doom and Gloomer".


May I adopt it?:ROFLOL:

 

[Skyway]

It was cut along the way, not at the beginning. Cut for many reasons, including money and time.

Lee---

We've all discussed extensively the "money and time" issues.

But I'm curious to know what some of the "many" other reasons are.

I'm sure there are other, very realistic obstacles a project like this faces that cannot blamed on the penny-pinchers alone.

For example, I can imagine a scenario of the proposed rockwork entry plaza and lighting package being cancelled/delayed because another WDI team that may be working on a new Tomorrowland thematic package has not committed to a design theme yet.

Or after seeing photos of the new Matterhorn bobsled prototype, I can imagine the company estimating the current DL trains have another X number of years of operational life, and then a decision being made to contract new SM and Matterhorn train construction together in bulk later.

Or perhaps there is a newer and better technology they are looking at (like a unique on-board sound and video system) that is not quite available or affordable yet, so rather than commit to a soon-to-be-obsolete system, they decide to wait. (Imagine if WDW had committed to installing the same retrofitted on-board SM audio that DL did in 1996, which ultimately let to much more damaging problems on that attraction's tracks).

I'm not saying any of those scenarios occurred. And I'm sure my above examples are much more optimistic than reality. But I can imagine external forces like that playing a role, if, in fact, there is "more" than just the usual "money and time" culprits to blame.

 

[mcjaco]

Are some forgetting that we apparently got all of the wheels and other hardware (not sure what they're called) on the rockets replaced, or did this not happen? There were a couple coaster experts/enthusiasts that said this can be a MAJOR factor in the bumpiness and jerkiness of WDW's Space Mountain.

Wheels, and track. The two best options at making a coaster smoother.

Like what kind of meatier topics? This is a discussion board for WDW with a lot of members so I expect threads like this to be long, don't you? :shrug:

DL fanboys only talk about meat.

I'm tired of words...

I wish someone were able to get pictures.

Amen!

Can you imagine what Splash Mountain, star tours, pirates of the caribbean, and Haunted Mansion would have been like if the current leadership was incharge back then? They would have had miniscule budgets and those rides would long be forgotten now

Pretty good, I'm betting. The latest HM updates are fabulous.

Out of curiosity, have you ever actually ridden DL's Space Mountain?

Besides the flashing lights and awesome score, DL's version has

-Incredible theming in the queue and post-show (we'll see what happens at MK)
-Exterior lighting that's really cool at night
-It's darker on the inside
-The music coincides with the lifts, turns, and dip, so it enhances the experience
-A smooth, comfortable track (like Everest). Honestly this makes a huge difference

These details add up. On-board audio would be appreciated, and the smoothness really is significant. It makes DL's Space Mountain feels like a pleasure to ride. MK's, on the other hand, could damage a healthy person's spine and I wouldn't be surprised.

- Where's the incredible theming??? It's on par with WDWs IMO.
- Yes, incredible lighting makes a coaster.
- I still fail to see this light bleed everyone was always complaining about.
- Yes, the music is nice, but hardly ride altering.
- And in thirty years it'll not be smooth. Ride RnRC. You'll see how well Vekoma track holds up, even with Disney standards for maintenance.

 

[djkidkaz]

From Screamscape:

I’ve heard a bit more information from one of our spies. They tell us that the work on the track should hopefully be noticble, but it was also a very necessary and major undertaking to ensure the longevity of the ride itself. From what I’m told, the entire track itself was pretty much worked on and modified. The work crews have been adjusting track pieces and welding in new cross-bents to connect the track to the supports, while removing old ones throughout the entire layout. A few new supports were also added to beef up the structure in some needed areas, and there are sections that feature all new track as well. As for the ride experience… the rocket on the lift hill has been repainted, along with new blue exhaust ports. Most of the rest of the changes are all in places that guests can see from the TTA, so I guess we’re going to have to wait and see. Oh… and you might not have to wait as long as you think. Rumors are starting to swirl about a soft-opening taking place within the next week, so keep your eyes open.

 

[Innoventions]

From Screamscape:

I’ve heard a bit more information from one of our spies. They tell us that the work on the track should hopefully be noticble, but it was also a very necessary and major undertaking to ensure the longevity of the ride itself. From what I’m told, the entire track itself was pretty much worked on and modified. The work crews have been adjusting track pieces and welding in new cross-bents to connect the track to the supports, while removing old ones throughout the entire layout. A few new supports were also added to beef up the structure in some needed areas, and there are sections that feature all new track as well. As for the ride experience… the rocket on the lift hill has been repainted, along with new blue exhaust ports. Most of the rest of the changes are all in places that guests can see from the TTA, so I guess we’re going to have to wait and see. Oh… and you might not have to wait as long as you think. Rumors are starting to swirl about a soft-opening taking place within the next week, so keep your eyes open.

This is great news if true!!!

 

[SMRT-1]

Originally Posted by WDW1974
I post on another site, regularly, one with more adults ... and you won't find threads like this ... or not of this length. People realize there's nothing to talk about and move on to meatier topics.

Like what kind of meatier topics? This is a discussion board for WDW with a lot of members so I expect threads like this to be long, don't you? :shrug:

Things like "dining" apparently are hot topics to him...Space Mountain is for the "kiddies"....notice though that he is all over this thread now? hmmm I spot a "fanboi" LOL :lol:

 

[Innoventions]

Originally Posted by WDW1974
I post on another site, regularly, one with more adults ... and you won't find threads like this ... or not of this length. People realize there's nothing to talk about and move on to meatier topics.


Things like "dining" apparently are hot topics to him...Space Mountain is for the "kiddies"....notice though that he is all over this thread now? hmmm I spot a "fanboi" LOL :lol:

Wait I thought he was an "insider" :lookaroun

 

[MousDad]

From Screamscape:

I’ve heard a bit more information from one of our spies. They tell us that the work on the track should hopefully be noticble, but it was also a very necessary and major undertaking to ensure the longevity of the ride itself. From what I’m told, the entire track itself was pretty much worked on and modified. The work crews have been adjusting track pieces and welding in new cross-bents to connect the track to the supports, while removing old ones throughout the entire layout. A few new supports were also added to beef up the structure in some needed areas, and there are sections that feature all new track as well. As for the ride experience… the rocket on the lift hill has been repainted, along with new blue exhaust ports. Most of the rest of the changes are all in places that guests can see from the TTA, so I guess we’re going to have to wait and see. Oh… and you might not have to wait as long as you think. Rumors are starting to swirl about a soft-opening taking place within the next week, so keep your eyes open.

Well, this might explain juan's army of welders.

 

[MousDad]

The fact there are almost 30 pages of posts on this (and how many other threads have there been?) is what I mean when I say fanbois are 'psyched' ... and I think over absolutely very, very little.

I post on another site, regularly, one with more adults ... and you won't find threads like this ... or not of this length. People realize there's nothing to talk about and move on to meatier topics. And that's not a bash here, I think we have some very exuberant youngsters who will post endlessly on just about anything (like when is Spidey coming to the MK?:ROFLOL

74, I love your posts, and think you're awesome, yadda yadda - but this post above is just flat out ridiculous.

How can anything be meatier than an SM refurb? :ROFLOL:

That's okay, we'll live with your friendly(?) forum jabs. You should hear what we say about your forum behind your back. :wave:

 

[Atomicmickey]

In what forum do the "grownups" hang out?

Laughing Place?
The DIS?
Someplace else?

This grown-up is just wondering . . . .

 

[Pete C]

Here is something I have never understood about steel coasters. Why can't they have a dampening system between the wheel assembly and the coaster car itself. This could allow bumps that have accumulated on the steel track over the years to be absorbed and not transferred directly to your spine. Sports cars have systems that allow for both amazing handling and a comfortable ride. I don't know why the same can't be applied to a coaster train...there must be some reason. There are countless older steel coasters that could benefit from something like this, if it were possible. Imagine Magnum XL-200 feeling like the day it opened or even better? I think that is one of those classic steel rides that needs track replacement as well since there seems to be no alternative like this.

 

[jaques21]

I love it! anyone want to meet on the 22nd and ride like crazy!

 

[Lee]

Well, this might explain juan's army of welders.

Oh, yeah. That army of welders that was completely rebuilding the track from scratch inside the mountain.

 

[wserratore1963]

I love it! anyone want to meet on the 22nd and ride like crazy!

I am thinking of taking a Day Trip on the 27th and plan on doing just that.