Indiana Jones 5 Now Pushed Back to 2021

[TalkingHead]

Got it, so it’s still an embarrassing joke.

Glad you enjoyed it.

Huh? All the Spielberg IJ films are variations on in-jokes made with self-awareness. Dial lacks that, being an unstyled imitation that doesn’t get the joke. Par for the course for Disney-era Lucasfilm bosh. Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[celluloid]

I very much feel it's a case of exploiting people's beliefs for financial gain. I guess people feel they are doing their part by supporting the film(racers), but if that involves sending money to the studio(donating time to company with no monetary return value) and producers for it to run in mostly empty theatres it's hard to see what is being achieved in terms of spreading whatever kind of message they are supposed to be spreading. But, these are adults who can make their own decisions.

Disney has race race volunteers they could certainly afford to staff.

I don't intend for this as an attack but it was convinient to compare by altering the company referenced in your quote. We could have the same compassion concern that others are being exploited because they love Disney or the hobby of running.

I also do not know if the empty theaters running has any validity. What evidence do we have that this is a common problem? Plenty of people are seeing this movie to give it moderate hit by Hollywood standards. Major because of the low budget it had.

People can't force anyone to use a gift. If that were the case we should be questioning retailers too for all the sweaters, shoes gift cards and apparel that are never worn nor returned and the giants they are.

The entire attack on a based on somewhat true events about sex trafficked children being rescued seems kind of an odd deflection from some for Indiana Jones.

 

[Tha Realest]

Blanchett is hamming like she’s in a cheap espionage flick circa 1956.

I’m of the mind that the only way Crystal Skull works is as a way of melding the serials of the 30s/40s as an homage with the bonkers sci Fi films of the 50’s.

 

[TP2000]

Weekend numbers are in for Indy 5's third weekend. It remained down in 4th place, and only one of the movies that beat it is understandable.

Mission: Impossible, while not doing huge numbers, understandably came in 1st place. But Indy also lost to two other movies that make this past weekend rather awkward and embarrassing for the 81 year old archeologist;

• a two week old modestly successful summer horror flick with a 61% drop from last weekend.
• a child sex trafficking movie with a 37% rise from last weekend that is playing to empty theaters nationwide.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Weekend numbers are in for Indy 5's third weekend. It remained down in 4th place, and only one of the movies that beat it is understandable.

Mission: Impossible, while not doing huge numbers, understandably came in 1st place. But Indy also lost to two other movies that make this past weekend rather awkward and embarrassing for the 81 year old archeologist;

• a two week old modestly successful summer horror flick with a 61% drop from last weekend.
• a child sex trafficking movie with a 37% rise from last weekend that is playing to empty theaters nationwide.

View attachment 730335

Dial of Destiny continues to move along, slowly but steadily.

 

[wtyy21]

Overseas, the number of Indy 5 was still bleak, dropping 46.5% from the last weekend.
Given that the budget of the film was $294.7M excluding marketing (some estimate it between $250M to $400M and others said it cost $329M), if the box office number still hold at sub-$400M for the next weekend, it will be Disney's biggest theatrical flop since John Crater and Strange World.

 

[TP2000]

Just curious how do these numbers compare when we look at Indy 5 vs. MI7 opening weekends (vs Indy week 4)? I’m asking more hypothetically since it’s too early to project but that would gives us an apples-apples comparison.

For all the bluster I heard online about how MI7 was supposed to “eat Indy’s lunch” from what I can see both the 3 days and 5 day tracking for opening-to-opening will likely be comparable for both films with Indy even possibly over-performing on the 5-day (which is understandable when you account for the fact it opened over the July 4 holiday).

Returning to this interesting thought from last week...

Here's where M:I and Indy 5 landed at the box office vs. box office for their opening weekends. M:I has done $80 Million in domestic box office since previews started last week, and officially made $80 Million domestic thus far. What's interesting is the disparity in overseas box office between M:I and Indy 5, as Indy 5 continues to struggle overseas but M:I has basically doubled its domestic box office overseas. Only Americans appreciate archeology it seems?

Also thrown into the mix for a fun comparison is the adjusted for inflation numbers for the previous M:I and Indy films.

Movie Comparison: Mission: Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One (2023) vs. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) vs. Mission: Impossible—Fallout (2018) vs. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)

Domestic box office comparison between Mission: Impossible Dead Reckoning Part One (2023) and Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) and Mission: Impossible—Fallout (2018) and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)

www.the-numbers.com

 

[TP2000]

Overseas, the number of Indy 5 was still bleak, dropping 56% from the last weekend.
Given that the budget of the film was $294.7M excluding marketing (some estimate it between $250M to $400M and others said it cost $329M), if the box office number still hold at sub-$400M for the next weekend, it will be Disney's biggest theatrical flop since John Crater and Strange World.

Using the most optimistic projection of a $400 Million global box office for Indy 5, if they only spent $100 Million on marketing (which they didn't, but lets pretend for the pixie dusters), Disney will lose $200 Million in American cash money on Indy 5.

If Disney spent $150 Million on marketing (which is what's been reported in the industry press, but makes it worse for Disney), then Disney will lose $250 Million in American cash money on Indy 5.

During a summer where Disney already lost a few hundred Million on their other 3 tentpoles combined, plus whatever box office misery Haunted Mansion brings in during late July and August.

The Summer of '23 needs to be a wakeup call for all of Disney's mega-budget studios. Because this is no longer working.

 

[TP2000]

I rented out an AMC theater during covid for $100 IIRC. Four of us went. Should that count as a full theater?

No, that counted as $100 in box office ticket sales for whatever movie you saw.

 

[Disney Irish]

In terms of profit, does the studio get a portion of ticket sales or paid based on how many eyeballs are looking at a screen?

You’ve advanced some interesting theories on what constitutes a profit and a success on other films, so to somehow use non-monetary criteria to gauge profit is both bizarre but also keeping within character.

If you can't see how this sets a bad precedence in terms of the box office and the theatrical ecosystem as a whole, well then I don't know what to tell you.

If Disney did this you'd all be deriding them for "gaming the system" and "putting up false box office numbers" and "the true cash grab", especially if reports came out of sold out but empty theaters.

So yeah it puts into question the profitability of a movie's box office that is being artificially pumped up in such a manner.

 

[celluloid]

If you can't see how this sets a bad precedence in terms of the box office and the theatrical ecosystem as a whole, well then I don't know what to tell you.

If Disney did this you'd all be deriding them for "gaming the system" and "putting up false box office numbers" and "the true cash grab", especially if reports came out of sold out but empty theaters.

So yeah it puts into question the profitability of a movie's box office that is being artificially pumped up in such a manner.

Get off the dang high horse ideals that a company may have. Disney already does this. As any marketing and spin tool does.

So much of Disney's streaming play are kids replaying it for the songs and free trials. Do you think that Encanto had unique play from all paying customers. People get free trials for a week or month all of the time or password share with no intention of buying or watching what someone shared with them or keeping a service.

The company is fine changing and cheapening the ecosystems of the theme parks, they have no honor or standards in how they market the box office better than any other major honest company.


Also, does anyone really think that Disney was like "Well this new finale most expensive Indiana Jones movie ever produced, we know will be a success for us if it makes about as much as Tron Legacy in theaters.

Realstiically, how many reports of individual empty theaters are there for this movie that is suppoedly being seen by no one every week?

 

[TP2000]

If you can't see how this sets a bad precedence in terms of the box office and the theatrical ecosystem as a whole, well then I don't know what to tell you.

If Disney did this you'd all be deriding them for "gaming the system" and "putting up false box office numbers" and "the true cash grab", especially if reports came out of sold out but empty theaters.

I'd never heard of this concept of buying movie tickets for strangers before last week, so I have to assume this is a brand new thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if other studios start trying it.

That said, you can go on Twitter right now and find endless comments from people who said their Sound of Freedom theater was full this past week. There's even photos and videos of sold out showings for Sound of Freedom that actually have real humans sitting in all the seats.

It's a weird thing, I must admit. Buying movie tickets for strangers. How does that work for the person getting the free ticket, I wonder?

 

[Disney Irish]

I'd never heard of this concept of buying movie tickets for strangers before last week, so I have to assume this is a brand new thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if other studios start trying it.

That said, you can go on Twitter right now and find endless comments from people who said their Sound of Freedom theater was full this past week. There's even photos and videos of sold out showings for Sound of Freedom that actually have real humans sitting in all the seats.

It's a weird thing, I must admit. Buying movie tickets for strangers. How does that work for the person getting the free ticket, I wonder?



View attachment 730369

And again one can do the same about videos showing empty theaters -



So again it puts into question the whole box office if seats are being sold but not used. A handful of seats, sure that's to be expected, but whole theaters empty to sold out tickets? Come on, even you have to admit that is not really a good precedence to set, that leads to shenanigans to happen in box office reporting. Because at that point every studio will just find ways to buy up tickets off the books and boost their numbers. We have to call a spade a spade here, if we're being honest.

 

[TP2000]

And again one can do the same about videos showing empty theaters -

Yes, I used the video of the "full theater" for Sound of Freedom (and there's no real proof that's a Sound of Freedom theater anyway, it could be a year old video showing the Maverick theater last summer for all we know) as an example of how anyone can show a single Social Media item as evidence that something is happening.

It may or may not be happening at all.

So again it puts into question the whole box office if seats are being sold but not used. A handful of seats, sure that's to be expected, but whole theaters empty to sold out tickets? Come on, even you have to admit that is not really a good precedence to set, that leads to shenanigans to happen in box office reporting.

I rarely go to movies, so I could care less what the "precedence" it sets is. I imagine other studios will start trying this "But A Ticket For A Stranger - Pay It Forward" gimmick too.

But what shenanigans can you impact with box office reporting? Are you saying that the #2 spot at the domestic box office this weekend and its $27 Million in ticket sales didn't actually exist? That Angel Studios won't actually see its cut of those ticket sales?

How does this $27 Million not exist in real cash money if the sales were collected by 3,265 theaters across the country?

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes, I used the video of the "full theater" for Sound of Freedom (and there's no real proof that's a Sound of Freedom theater anyway, it could be a year old video showing the Maverick theater last summer for all we know) as an example of how anyone can show a single Social Media item as evidence that something is happening.

It may or may not be happening at all.

You can tell the video I posted is from this week because of the trailer of "Next Goal Wins". Which incidentally is a Disney Searchlight low budget film being released in November.

I rarely go to movies, so I could care less what the "precedence" it sets is. I imagine other studios will start trying this "But A Ticket For A Stranger - Pay It Forward" gimmick too.

But what shenanigans can you impact with box office reporting? Are you saying that the #2 spot at the domestic box office this weekend and its $27 Million in ticket sales didn't actually exist? That Angel Studios won't actually see its cut of those ticket sales?

How does this $27 Million not exist in real cash money if the sales were collected by 3,265 theaters across the country?

View attachment 730373

If we're saying now that its ok then for studios to find ways to buy up tickets, then the box office performance is truly meaningless.

 

[TP2000]

If we're saying now that its ok then for studios to find ways to buy up tickets, then the box office performance is truly meaningless.

Angel Studios didn't buy up those tickets to donate to random strangers, other Americans (and a few Canadians) bought those tickets.

The studios won't be buying up the tickets, the people sitting in the theater who already bought a ticket for themselves will buy the additional tickets by scanning the ticket code.

This is a brilliant business strategy the more I think about it. I won't be surprised if other studios jump on this Angel Studios idea.

When Disney releases Wish in November, they could/should have a similar campaign to Sound of Freedom where you "Wish It Forward" and buy a ticket for a stranger that would be valid the following week, to spread the holiday cheer in the season of joy and light.

This would also give the Walt Disney Company digital access to all sorts of new customers and give them lots of demographic data. Win-win.

 

[celluloid]

Angel Studios didn't buy up those tickets to donate to random strangers, other Americans (and a few Canadians) bought those tickets.

The studios won't be buying up the tickets, the people sitting in the theater who already bought a ticket for themselves will buy the additional tickets by scanning the ticket code.

This is a brilliant business strategy the more I think about it. I won't be surprised if other studios jump on this Angel Studios idea.

When Disney releases Wish in November, they could/should have a similar campaign to Sound of Freedom where you "Wish It Forward" and buy a ticket for a stranger that would be valid the following week, to spread the holiday cheer in the season of joy and light.

This would also give the Walt Disney Company digital access to all sorts of new customers and give them lots of demographic data. Win-win.

Your points make more sense and don't sound like a conspiracy, such as a Tik Tok where the previews have barely started with some creepy music.
Buying the ticket for the stranger would not reserve the seats though. That is why the gift part makes sense, but the empty theater thing is being just a tad exaggerated.

A movie studio would be paying money and theaters keeping some of that money. It does not go all back into their pockets.

It can indeed be called a schtick or gimmick, but it is not dishonest.


I went and tried to see Cocaine bear opening weekend with my Regal Unlimited, it ended up being later than I wanted it to be and I turned right around when I got in the theater and realized the crowd was...full of the type of people who would watch cocaine bear. I deal with enough teenagers during the day that I needed a break.

My seat was reserved and credited thru my Regal Unlimited account to whatever the studio gets a cut of. It did not mean I broke the system. I went the next day for an earlier showing instead.

 

[Tha Realest]

Angel Studios didn't buy up those tickets to donate to random strangers, other Americans (and a few Canadians) bought those tickets.

The studios won't be buying up the tickets, the people sitting in the theater who already bought a ticket for themselves will buy the additional tickets by scanning the ticket code.

This is a brilliant business strategy the more I think about it. I won't be surprised if other studios jump on this Angel Studios idea.

When Disney releases Wish in November, they could/should have a similar campaign to Sound of Freedom where you "Wish It Forward" and buy a ticket for a stranger that would be valid the following week, to spread the holiday cheer in the season of joy and light.

This would also give the Walt Disney Company digital access to all sorts of new customers and give them lots of demographic data. Win-win.

Yeah, there’s no indication Angel Studios is buying up seats at these shows. Rather, they’ve motivated a subset of their target audience to spread the word, in a palpable way, by prepurchashing a ticket for someone else. That’s no different than when I - me - paid for a ticket for my daughter to see TLM.
The only one who loses if, in fact, these are empty theaters and phantom guests (with paid tickets) that never showed up are the theaters and their concession sales. Angel Studios would presumptively still get its full BO share from AMC, Regal, etc.

 

[Disney Irish]

Angel Studios didn't buy up those tickets to donate to random strangers, other Americans (and a few Canadians) bought those tickets.

The studios won't be buying up the tickets, the people sitting in the theater who already bought a ticket for themselves will buy the additional tickets by scanning the ticket code.

This is a brilliant business strategy the more I think about it. I won't be surprised if other studios jump on this Angel Studios idea.

When Disney releases Wish in November, they could/should have a similar campaign to Sound of Freedom where you "Wish It Forward" and buy a ticket for a stranger that would be valid the following week, to spread the holiday cheer in the season of joy and light.

This would also give the Walt Disney Company digital access to all sorts of new customers and give them lots of demographic data. Win-win.

I know how the "Pay-it-forward" scenario works.

The real issue comes up downstream, if you have this done by all studios and the tickets aren't used sure the studio makes money but the theaters lose. As was touched upon if there are no butts in the seats there is no one buying concessions the real money maker for the theaters. And if they can't make money from concessions they go out of business, and if that happens, the whole theatrical system crumbles.

So yeah its not an issue for the studio, but it is for everyone else. And that is why it puts the whole Box Office into question and ultimately meaningless.

 

[Disney Irish]

The only one who loses if, in fact, these are empty theaters and phantom guests (with paid tickets) that never showed up are the theaters and their concession sales.

And that right there is the real problem with this "pay-it-forward" scenario. If theaters aren't making money from concessions they go out of business. They aren't getting enough from their cut of the Box Office to remain in business. Thus if all studios move to this model, it'll end up closing theaters and crushing the system.