Incredibles to replace COP?

[FigmentJedi]

The Incredibles took place in a retro-futuristic time and setting (an idea which is embodied in Tomorrowland itself) so I could see it fitting into Tomorrowland.

The Incredibles is actually set in the late 60's-early 70s. The dates in the "No Capes" speech, the hero profiles on Syndrome's computer and the 15 year Super ban confirm it.

Also, I'm all for Robinsons getting an attraction. Heck, if it did replace CoP, god forbid, they could still easily re-use Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow considering the TMBG cover of it on the soundtrack (and how they actually used it in the original cut for the arrival in the Future)

 

[darthjohnny]

The Incredibles is actually set in the late 60's-early 70s. The dates in the "No Capes" speech, the hero profiles on Syndrome's computer and the 15 year Super ban confirm it.

The Incredibles took place in a retro-futuristic time and setting (an idea which is embodied in Tomorrowland itself)

The filmmakers have said this before.

From IMDB:

The unusual architecture in the film was based on a distinctive style of 1950s space-age futurism known as Googie, most often seen in coffee shops and bowling alleys of the era.

So you can say it's "retro-futuristic."

 

[flagen]

I agree COP does need to go and NOT back to Disneyland. I don't know if it was said in the last 15 pages I once heard it was going to the Smithsonian where would be a great place for it. Also please if it does go please please please NO ASIMO...Look it can go up steps....zzz.zzzz.

Too many hard core Disney lovers seem to HATE change and want the same ride they had as kids for ever. Im a 38 year old Disney lover (and I prefer Disneyland over the MK as they seem to do more changes there) and they need to get rid of the old (at times) and bring in the new.

Pixar will not last forever no matter how many mommies buy their kids Toy Story and Cars DvD for there kids. It could be worse it could be High School Musical and Hanna Montana Land (HEAVEN FORBID).

Swiss Family Treehouse....how many kids today know what that movies is? But should it stay there because It was a cute movie from MY childhood NO.

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin in DL.....Ive sat there as heard kids ask "who is Roger Rabbit" again should this stay there for 10 more years just because it was a cool movie 20 years ago?

We might see some Enchanted kinda ride down the road BUT chances are it will not have Giselle as Disney would have to pay Amy Adams for the rest of her life when they use her likeness for anything.

Jungle Cruise when this movie is made and IF it makes money maybe this ride will get its LONG over due make over. I know the Disney purest will protest and moan but its 2008 almost and time to stop living 20 or more years in the past.

 

[CThaddeus]

I agree COP does need to go and NOT back to Disneyland. I don't know if it was said in the last 15 pages I once heard it was going to the Smithsonian where would be a great place for it. Also please if it does go please please please NO ASIMO...Look it can go up steps....zzz.zzzz.

Too many hard core Disney lovers seem to HATE change and want the same ride they had as kids for ever. Im a 38 year old Disney lover (and I prefer Disneyland over the MK as they seem to do more changes there) and they need to get rid of the old (at times) and bring in the new.

Pixar will not last forever no matter how many mommies buy their kids Toy Story and Cars DvD for there kids. It could be worse it could be High School Musical and Hanna Montana Land (HEAVEN FORBID).

Swiss Family Treehouse....how many kids today know what that movies is? But should it stay there because It was a cute movie from MY childhood NO.

Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin in DL.....Ive sat there as heard kids ask "who is Roger Rabbit" again should this stay there for 10 more years just because it was a cool movie 20 years ago?

We might see some Enchanted kinda ride down the road BUT chances are it will not have Giselle as Disney would have to pay Amy Adams for the rest of her life when they use her likeness for anything.

Jungle Cruise when this movie is made and IF it makes money maybe this ride will get its LONG over due make over. I know the Disney purest will protest and moan but its 2008 almost and time to stop living 20 or more years in the past.

So, what you're saying is that any attraction that exists where the characters aren't widely known by kids should be chucked? You're advocating the removal of Roger Rabbit's Car-Toon Spin because kids might not know who he is? Okay, let's see, I guess this means Splash Mountain has to go, because how many kids today really know about "Song of the South" and the Uncle Remus stories? Disney has deprived children of this wonderful film for over a generation, but I'm sure most kids (and adults) will tell you it's still a great attraction. Kids don't NEED to know a particular character to enjoy an attraction. Need I point out they just opened an attraction in EPCOT Center featuring "The Three Caballeros?" How many kids (or adults, even) do you think have seen that movie? Honestly, when I was a kid, I didn't know who the Swiss Family Robinson was, but I loved walking through their treehouse...because I think I, like many kids, would love to have one and this is the Mother of all treehouses. I still like walking through it, as do many others based on the number of people in front and in back of me when I was last there a couple of months ago. But, no. Your Disneyland/World would gut anything more than 20 years old by the sounds of it, so it should go.
Yes, things need to be updated from time to time. New technologies, better AAs, safety requirements, etc. make that a given. However, I think a good portion of the people who return to Disneyland/World go expecting to see many of the things they encountered as children, often to share that experience with THEIR children. If Disneyland took out every attraction more than 20 years old, you can bet I'd have to seriously think about wanting to go again. I think a lot of others might, too. Disneyland is, to a great degree, about nostalgia and memories. Take away the nostalgia and memories and what are you left with? Should we also remove Main Street? That's all about the past. Why should we care about that anymore? Kids don't know what the early 1900s were like since they weren't alive then. Bulldoze it and put in a rolly coaster. Frontierland? Pfffft. More living in the past. Flatten it and put in another rolly coaster (Thunder Mountain ain't staying 'cause it's over 20 now). Fantasyland? Are you kidding? Those movies and stories are ancient. Nuke 'em all.
If it sounds like I'm a purist, to a degree you are right. I often prefer the older attractions of Disneyland/Disney World to most of the newer stuff. There was a quality and heart to those older attractions I think many recently have lacked. That's not to say I dislike all new attractions; on the contrary. I enjoy Expedition: Everest quite a bit, for instance.
I'm also not a fan of all of the recent changes, either. I'm against the recent changes to Pirates of the Caribbean, but not because Jack Sparrow was added. I'm against the storyline and dilogue changes, and the replacement of certain classic characters (like the pirate on the ship and the woman in the barrel). If they had simply added the characters in as part of additional scenes (a duel between Jack and Will, for example), or just put them in with the other characters without calling a lot of attention to them (ie. adding Jack in as one of the prisoners) I would have been fine with it. On the other hand, I love the floating Leota head and most of the other plusses made to The Haunted Mansion recently (though I dislike the now-murderous Constance). Plusses are one thing, massive changes are something else altogether.
Walt said it himself, "I love the nostalgic myself. I hope we never lose some of the things of the past." Yes, he made many changes to his Parks, but they were often just plusses to existing attractions (ie. The Jungle Cruise) or, if he completely replaced something it was because the original attraction was something he considered stopgap to begin with (ie. most of Tomorrowland when Disneyland opened. He didn't have the money to build what he wanted so he put in temporary attractions like Hall of Chemistry and the Art Corner).
In the end, I think any time a classic attraction is threatened with extinction over updating without changing the basic story (like Carousel of Progress deserves) is a tragedy. In my mind, it's like Disney took one of their classic films and burned every copy in existence...or worse yet, did a George Lucas on them and added in all-new scenes that change the story. The original is lost...gone forever. If that analogy doesn't bother you, then maybe you really don't love Disney as much as you think. I'm not trying to be mean and I apologize for the long post, but I'm just trying to get you to see why us so-called "purists" actually care and get all uppity when Disney decides to either bulldoze or change an attraction. It's a piece of history, and to see it so blithely destroyed or dumbed-up (ala Under New Management) is painful. It's like they're killing a piece of my personal history. I love that I can videotape the attraction, but it's nothing compared to being able to experience it in person. Soon, we might not be able to do that with Carousel of Progress anymore. When that happens it will be a sad day for the world.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

WOAH! WOAH! BREATHE!! *hands you a paper bag* Look back at the sentence that says "They should take out the old (AT TIMES) and bring in the new." Did you blink when he said "At times" thus meaning that not all old things should be taken out? Personally, I think he's right in certain places. If Disney was run by the hard-core purists that can't stand any of these changes they make, Disney would be constantly held back, couldn't do a darn thing and would die. Kinda like it almost did in the early 80s. Removing a beloved classic attraction is one thing, but if there's an attraction that's doing so badly they can only open it on certain parts of the year (and even then is pretty empty) then what's the point?
and for the record, the girl in the barrel from POTC was hardly what I call a "classic character" and her reason for being there was totally ruined when they PCed the ride and therefore has not point in being in the ride anymore other than "It's a classic"

 

[Slowjack]

Yeah, this is really another Mr Toad situation waiting to happen. Nobody cares, guys. COP is hopelessly outdated. It is dead space. If you want to waste your time trying to save this attraction, go ahead. But to do so, I fear, will just marginalize the voice of the hardcore fan in the eyes of Disney's upper management. Fight the fights that are worth fighting. SpaceShip Earth - worth it. Country Bears Christmas - nobody cares. Space Mountain - worth it. Carousel of Progress - nobody cares.

P.S. People like Pixar.

This is circular logic. People do care about CoP or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think you are just listing which attractions you think are more worth saving, which is fine but you should state it that way.

Also in another post you say that CoP never has much of a line. Hey, when I go, none of these attractions has much of a line.

Look, I understand that it's impractical to keep an attraction open because we think it had some special meaning to dear departed Walt. But if someone loves seeing CoP on every visit, why shouldn't they make their feelings known?

 

[CThaddeus]

WOAH! WOAH! BREATHE!! *hands you a paper bag* Look back at the sentence that says "They should take out the old (AT TIMES) and bring in the new." Did you blink when he said "At times" thus meaning that not all old things should be taken out? Personally, I think he's right in certain places. If Disney was run by the hard-core purists that can't stand any of these changes they make, Disney would be constantly held back, couldn't do a darn thing and would die. Kinda like it almost did in the early 80s. Removing a beloved classic attraction is one thing, but if there's an attraction that's doing so badly they can only open it on certain parts of the year (and even then is pretty empty) then what's the point?
and for the record, the girl in the barrel from POTC was hardly what I call a "classic character" and her reason for being there was totally ruined when they PCed the ride and therefore has not point in being in the ride anymore other than "It's a classic"

I will admit I missed the "(at times)" portion of the sentence...probably because it was in parentheses. However, when you're advocating removing attractions like Swiss Family Treehouse and Roger Rabbit just because kids don't necessarily know who they are or because they're "old," you're treading on a very slippery slope...especially when both attractions still draw guests. As I mentioned already, whenever I visit the Magic Kingdom there are always many people in front of and behind me in the Treehouse. It is a nice, simple attraction, and enjoyable to those of us who don't need every attraction to be some over-the-top E-Ticket. One of the beauties of Disney is the discovery element. Another is the attention to detail. This attraction has that in spades.
As for Roger Rabbit, I don't know that I've ever seen it with less than a ten minute wait. On busy days it can still get up to 30 minutes. Does that sound like an attraction on its last legs?
And then there's the whole issue of not updating something instead of just gutting it. Take a look at Wonders of Life. Disney really dropped the ball here, and consequently some of the best attractions in Disney World are sitting abandoned, opened only at the whims of poor management as "crowd control."
Next, I'm not advocating stagnance. I would advocate filling in the empty spots of the Parks - and many do exist - before considering tearing out something that is older and beloved. Add, don't replace. Update, don't replace. Promote, don't replace. If and when those options are exhausted, and the attraction still no longer draws anyone in, then perhaps replace.
Finally, you made one of my points by mentioning the woman in the barrel. She WAS a classic character, but in one of Disney's more poorly executed updates - the PC one - she had her purpose stripped from her. She and the fat pirate were iconic figures (or at least they were to me. I remember seeing them on a Disney special once and their image is burned into my memory to this day). But then, I've always considered every character in the original Pirates as classic - worthy of technical and minor facial/clothing updates, but not complete removal for a fad character.
Sorry, this is one of those subjects I do jump on my soapbox for. I hate seeing wonderful works of art so callously bulldozed for something that often lacks the quality and detail of its predecessor.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

I'm with you on some of that. I personally do not want to see Roger Rabbit go. Infact, I want it brought to WDW somewhere. Either Toontown or MGM studios and if the Swiss Family Treehouse IS still attracting crowds, then keeping it wouldn't hurt, but there are several things out there in WDW that DO have a very dated look and it's partically because they use characters that people have no clue about. I for one wasn't crying when they removed Mr. Toad or 20 k (Though it could've been replaced with something a little more interesting) and believe other things like HISTA should go because of this. and yes, I do think it wouldn't be a crime to replace COP though it SHOULD be with something big. Something E-Ticket level good and possibly even using the same technology.
And the woman in the barrel being a classic character I suppose is just a matter of opinion. Though I wasn't a fan of the PCing to Pirates, I still wasn't all that hurt that she was gone.