Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald takes over the creative direction of Epcot

[NoChesterHester]

gotcha thanks. I knew it was something as simple as that. But yes it is a lot of mulaa. I read somewhere its about 55million for a new world showcase pavilion and that was a couple decades ago. Now where did I read that, hmm I'll have to dig it up.

55 million without a ride. That is a lot to spend on a restaurant and a shop, even at Disney prices.

 

[doctornick]

I see this more of a "stop the bleeding" move but Epcot is the least of the problems facing Parks & Resorts in Orlando.

This to me is the key thing. I totally understand the sadness many have towards the Epcot of today and how people long for FW to return to its glorious roots. But from a practical matter, Epcot still gets good crowds and still makes a lot of money (I would think) with food and merch. While I would love to see a major overall of FW, I don't see anyone (TDO, Burbank, whatever) budgeting for that.

What we can realistically hope for is an improvement of the failing pavilions, an updated/expanded Soarin' and maybe one new build. They aren't spending $1B, let alone $2B, that park. If a $500M budget shows up, that would be huge. And honestly, I don't really want them putting a ton of money in Epcot if it means smaller budgets for DAK/DHS -- those two parks need a ton more work than Epcot.

Of course, I'm also someone who thinks a good idea would be building a new IASW ride in WS and then putting a Tangled boat ride in the vacated space in FL.

 

[NoChesterHester]

This to me is the key thing. I totally understand the sadness many have towards the Epcot of today and how people long for FW to return to its glorious roots. But from a practical matter, Epcot still gets good crowds and still makes a lot of money (I would think) with food and merch. While I would love to see a major overall of FW, I don't see anyone (TDO, Burbank, whatever) budgeting for that.

What we can realistically hope for is an improvement of the failing pavilions, an updated/expanded Soarin' and maybe one new build. They aren't spending $1B, let alone $2B, that park. If a $500M budget shows up, that would be huge. And honestly, I don't really want them putting a ton of money in Epcot if it means smaller budgets for DAK/DHS -- those two parks need a ton more work than Epcot.

Of course, I'm also someone who thinks a good idea would be building a new IASW ride in WS and then putting a Tangled boat ride in the vacated space in FL.

AK is getting love. Nothing will change that now. Agree that HS needs it worse, but Star Wars very well may save that park.

Epcot has this amazing scale to it that if rehabbed properly it could explode in attendance and completely handle the bigger crowds. Because of the already stellar nighttime scene and excellent restaurant density it has the most to gain financially of any WDW park by a big attendance boost.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Things can change and do. Sometimes the slow rate of change doesn't make things apparent at a large organization.

I get that but it's Disney's entire way of thinking. Gotta start at the top.

 

[PhotoDave219]

AK is getting love. Nothing will change that now. Agree that HS needs it worse, but Star Wars very well may save that park.

Epcot has this amazing scale to it that if rehabbed properly it could explode in attendance and completely handle the bigger crowds. Because of the already stellar nighttime scene and excellent restaurant density it has the most to gain financially of any WDW park by a big attendance boost.

Looking at it from a corporate POV, I'm not worried about Epcot. I'm also not rehabbing that park until after the studios are fixed.

 

[NoChesterHester]

Looking at it from a corporate POV, I'm not worried about Epcot. I'm also not rehabbing that park until after the studios are fixed.

And they probably wont. Let's say they started on designs today -- we are what, seven years out?

 

[PhotoDave219]

And they probably wont. Let's say they started on designs today -- we are what, seven years out?

At the earliest.

Considering we've heard rumblings that they will not start working on the studios until after Disney springs is finished, you're looking at that in 2016 or 17. Figure 3 years on that maybe four, and you're not looking at any major projects at Epcot starting until 2021.

Management loves to use the excuse that the parks are a mature/legacy business… which is become a self fulfilling prophecy due to the lack of investment in the past 10 years.

Me, I disagree. I think the only way to get repeat business and to grow the audience is constant reinvestments. I don't want guests that only show up once… I want gas to come here once every year or every other year for the rest of their lives. I want guests to the come here and then bring their kids here and when their kids grow up I want the kids to bring their families here.

Listening to Wall Street financial analysts who never set foot in a theme park and never will, that will not succeed because they haven't bloody clue. I don't want my stock price to have record quarters, I want a record year. I want to record five years. I want to record decade.

The only way to do that is the successfully building an audience, not accounting games, Not juking the stats (see also "the wire"), no rearranging the deck chairs here on the Titanic. (Which I highly recommend on international drive) the only way Epcot is going to get redeveloped anytime soon or the studios get saved any time soon is for someone in management to finally get that they cannot run a theme park on quarterly schedule, you cannot build an audience by having them show up once and milk every dollar from them, thank you cannot believe that the guests will always come. (See also: "divine right of kings, the")

Sorry for the rant. I want the studios to be made over with the Star Wars movies coming. I want Epcot to return to form its original ideas and goals. I want another country and more pavilions. I want more animals at animal kingdom. And right now all that seems like a pipe dream in the sky.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

Oh I don't know… I think one difference between Epcot and DCA is that with Epcot at least the basic structure of the park is still there, whereas with DCA there was major reworking and construction of entire lands. The bulk of the DCA budget was spent on Cars Land (I heard it broken down as 700 mil of the 1.2 bil on Cars Land, with 300 mil for Racers, 100 mil each on the two flat rides, and then another 200 mil on everything else and the land's theming and rock work. Some of that may be off though). And then of course the main entry land of the park had to be torn down and rebuilt while remaining operational. And there simply isn't anything of that scale and logistical difficulty necessary for Epcot.

I would expect at most we're looking at a couple of pavilions (Energy and Imagination, maybe Wonders of Life) being taken down for work, none of which I would expect to cost more than 300 million. Throw in the occasional smaller projects like Leave a Legacy's removal and film replacements for Norway or Circle of Life, and I'm not sure it's likely that Disney would spend more than a billion on Epcot. I'd like to see Disney go in and redo Spaceship Earth a fifth time or yank out Nemo from the Seas, but I'm not sure it's realistic. I'd like to see a $2-3 total rethinking/rebuilding of Epcot as much as the next guy, but there comes a point where Disney (and me) could see the money better spent, especially when Hollywood Studios, resort transportation, and parts of Animal Kingdom could use a few billion dollars themselves.

Exactly. Disney's California Adventure was a complete disaster from the beginning, according to many, many people. It would have not survived if they didn't spend all that money. Epcot is definitely becoming stale, but it is far from being as bad as DCA was in its early years. That said, I definitely look forward to see a lot of work done around the park, to bring it back to its original splendor.

 

[GoofGoof]

AK is getting love. Nothing will change that now. Agree that HS needs it worse, but Star Wars very well may save that park.

Epcot has this amazing scale to it that if rehabbed properly it could explode in attendance and completely handle the bigger crowds. Because of the already stellar nighttime scene and excellent restaurant density it has the most to gain financially of any WDW park by a big attendance boost.

I think you nailed a big driver of this rumored project. EPCOT probably has a higher per guest spending level than any of the other 3 (even MK). This is probably mostly due to food/alcohol sales and shopping in WS. If they boost attendance at EPCOT they boost overall per guest spending which is a big goal right now.

 

[Rodan75]

I dont think thats been what Ive heard coming out of his town halls.

Look, I like you as a poster here. Youve got a good rep. I dont think after an exec as a "loser" helps your case here. And I'm a fan of the buses but theyre long gone. Sadly.

Going after an exec being put in charge of a theme park because he has zero theme park experience... well thats something entirely different and entirely accurate. You have to leave the bus guy in charge of buses. You put the theme park guy in charge of theme parks.

Do I think this bodes well for Epcot? I'm not holding my breath. I heard the number 0.2% growth for Epcot touted around, cant speak for its accuracy but I believe those numbers are flat.

Is DAK's & DHS' problems worse? Significantly. Those parks are bleeding and when the TEA numbers come out, I'm confident they'll be losing guests.

They've neglected 3 parks since 2005, failing to reinvest yet reaping the benefits of a soaring stock price.

Shuffling the deck chairs doesn't mean much if Glendale refuses to let you reinvest/redevelop your parks.

I see this more of a "stop the bleeding" move but Epcot is the least of the problems facing Parks & Resorts in Orlando.

I just don't think we are going to see DCA style investment in Epcot, I believe they will go one Pavillion at a time, and I don't believe for a second that the Epcot purists will be remotely happy. Hopefully there will be a theme to the madness and the DVC. (Maybe the new DVC will be themed to E.P.C.O.T. ).

 

[PhotoDave219]

I just don't think we are going to see DCA style investment in Epcot, I believe they will go one Pavillion at a time, and I don't believe for a second that the Epcot purists will be remotely happy. Hopefully there will be a theme to the madness and the DVC. (Maybe the new DVC will be themed to E.P.C.O.T. ).

I agree. I don't see it happening either. That's needed in DHS/DAK way before Epcot

 

[note2001]

I just don't think we are going to see DCA style investment in Epcot, I believe they will go one Pavillion at a time, and I don't believe for a second that the Epcot purists will be remotely happy. Hopefully there will be a theme to the madness and the DVC. (Maybe the new DVC will be themed to E.P.C.O.T. ).

I agree with all, except DVC. I love DVC, but enough already. Time for them to take a break from development and start getting the refurbs on the older ones right!

 

[NoChesterHester]

Here is the thing about DVC.... It makes money. Lots. It is currently one of the things propping up Parks and Resorts right now. Into itself DVC isn't a bad thing.

BUT there currently isn't enough to do at WDW to justify the continual build of new DVC units. Eventually they have to put some money into the parks again to provide more capacity and to drive the sales of more DVC.

What we really want is for one of these DVC's to not sell out and not meet projections. Without that cash flow lots of real good questions will be asked. Heads will roll.

 

[WDW1974]

Where's Bob Weis these days? If his work with Shanghai is done, I think Studios would be a great fit for him.

Bob's work on SDL will take him well into 2016. And that is IF he decides to retire then, which isn't guaranteed.

Bob was lead designer of the Disney-MGM Studios, btw. But I doubt he is going to be doing anything at WDW. ... He is busy blazing trails in China.

 

[matt9112]

That desire has been there for years. Well, I should say the desire to do something at Epcot. That something hasn't always been....umm...great.

As for putting Fitz in charge.....
I'm skeptical, and will remain so until I see something positive happen. He doesn't have my trust.

LEE has spoken.....nuff said.

 

[WDW1974]

They dont need Phil Holmes anymore either, Id like to see him gone before Eric.

I wonder when he is ever going to give that gig up and retire. They are grooming Lee's boy, Danny, to be the future head of WDW and it is widely thought that they will not place him into that role until he has run the No. 1 theme park at the resort. ... I guess there's only so much he can do at the No. 4.

But Phil has nothing to do with Eric.

One is Operations/Executive Leadership team. One is WDI.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is the thing about DVC.... It makes money. Lots. It is currently one of the things propping up Parks and Resorts right now. Into itself DVC isn't a bad thing.

BUT there currently isn't enough to do at WDW to justify the continual build of new DVC units. Eventually they have to put some money into the parks again to provide more capacity and to drive the sales of more DVC.

What we really want is for one of these DVC's to not sell out and not meet projections. Without that cash flow lots of real good questions will be asked. Heads will roll.

This may be a stretch, but if the next DVC after Poly is rumored to be at EPCOT or at least in the parking lot they may want to spruce up the place before points go on sale. Poly points will likely be on sale in a year to 18 months so probably 2018 or 2019 for EPCOT. Plenty of time to polish the old girl up. I have noticed a small uptick in SSR resale prices since the announcement of Disney Springs (could be unrelated, but it's up slightly compared to OKW). I do think it would greatly help sales to have some positive buzz about EPCOT when points went on sale.

 

[WDW1974]

You are a bit out of date on who's doing what.

Eric passed Epcot and Studios over to Mangum back in July 2013 when he took the new role of global attraction and entertainment safety. Eric continues to be creative leader on Magic Kingdom, Disney Springs, Resort hotels and Disney vacation Club locations.

So the current lineup for the Parks is:

Mangum - Studios
Rohde - DAK
Fitzgerald - Epcot
Jacobson - MK

Yes, thanks. They move people around so much, I had forgotten that Eric already got his responsibilities cut at WDW.

Between that and the little fiasco that has been going on with the coaster of late, I'm even more convinced that he has limited time left at Disney.

Kathy has vast powers on Disney Springs, so he isn't needed there. And how much they need him for DVC and those impressive sounding 'global' responsibilities is open to debate.

You look at the four individuals above, their responsibilities, the future plans for the resort (such as they are) and ask yourself who is the most expendable to save a VERY large salary.

 

[WDW1974]

Kathy is actually based in Florida while the rest are still in California -- right?

No. She was moved to WDW in 2013.

 

[Jakester]

Mr Tom, can you quickly fix the barf of paint currently making it's way into Future World