Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald takes over the creative direction of Epcot

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Even getting WDI and TDO to have the desire at the same time won't be enough. It will take Burbank to be full of desire too. (I'm still talking about theme parks, by the way. :cool:)

The project to remake and relaunch DCA was a five-year plan that cost 1.2 Billion Dollars, and had to be approved by the Board of Directors to address a pressing need. The DCA plan was announced by Bob Iger and Jay Rasulo in October, 2007, got under construction in 2008, with phased openings around the park from 2009 thru 2011, and concluded with the opening of Cars Land in 2012. And they spent 1.2 Billion on the deal, which didn't include the cost of Midway Mania which was approved in 2005 and built in 2006-08 with a previous budget.

To fix Epcot you have to go in with a budget that at least matches the DCA remake budget of 1.2 Billion. But considering the scale and scope of what needs to be done at Epcot, the budget will need to be more than what DCA got. Likely much more. Burbank and the Board of Directors will need to be involved for that to ever be considered.

Oh I don't know… I think one difference between Epcot and DCA is that with Epcot at least the basic structure of the park is still there, whereas with DCA there was major reworking and construction of entire lands. The bulk of the DCA budget was spent on Cars Land (I heard it broken down as 700 mil of the 1.2 bil on Cars Land, with 300 mil for Racers, 100 mil each on the two flat rides, and then another 200 mil on everything else and the land's theming and rock work. Some of that may be off though). And then of course the main entry land of the park had to be torn down and rebuilt while remaining operational. And there simply isn't anything of that scale and logistical difficulty necessary for Epcot.

I would expect at most we're looking at a couple of pavilions (Energy and Imagination, maybe Wonders of Life) being taken down for work, none of which I would expect to cost more than 300 million. Throw in the occasional smaller projects like Leave a Legacy's removal and film replacements for Norway or Circle of Life, and I'm not sure it's likely that Disney would spend more than a billion on Epcot. I'd like to see Disney go in and redo Spaceship Earth a fifth time or yank out Nemo from the Seas, but I'm not sure it's realistic. I'd like to see a $2-3 billion total rethinking/rebuilding of Epcot as much as the next guy, but there comes a point where Disney (and me) could see the money better spent, especially when Hollywood Studios, resort transportation, and parts of Animal Kingdom could use a few billion dollars themselves.
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
The more I think about it the new VP and having Fitzgerald be in charge of the Epcot Center portfolio is literally the worst possible situation for Epcot to be in.

It's as if they decided to dump all the losers on Epcot to keep them away from other projects.

Im not sure if Sam Lau is a "loser" considering he used to run the San Francisco bus system. Why they would move him out of transportation seems interesting, considering he was brought in to fix things after the accidents several years again.

Would i move him to the head of a theme park? No - thats clearly not his wheelhouse.
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Im not sure if Sam Lau is a "loser" considering he used to run the San Francisco bus system. Why they would move him out of transportation seems interesting, considering he was brought in to fix things after the accidents several years again.

Would i move him to the head of a theme park? No - thats clearly not his wheelhouse.

His solution to every problem was "uh...add more busses?" because that's the only thing he knows about. Maybe he'll make himself useful and bring back the double decker buses at World Showcase

wstransportation_redbus1983ww.jpg

88-World-Showcase-bus-Ben-West-640x421.jpg
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
World Showcase may not have anything new, but in reality it is the most completely themed area in all of WDW. I'm resigned to the fact that WS is now just the worlds most impressively themed shopping mall with fun food.

If they can focus on fixing Future World.... I mean really spend some cash to fix it, they can ignore WS and I can 100% get behind that.

See, I don't really agree. I think they desperately need a new actual ride somewhere in WS -- especially on the west side -- to help to disperse crowds. While the food and shopping attracts people, in my experience talking to folks, a lot of people just ignore WS altogether since they don't think there's enough to do there.

I'm not saying that fixing Imagination, updating Energy and actually putting something in WoL aren't important as well, but FW has been ignored for far too long.
 

BlueSkyDriveBy

Well-Known Member
Im not sure if Sam Lau is a "loser" considering he used to run the San Francisco bus system. Why they would move him out of transportation seems interesting, considering he was brought in to fix things after the accidents several years again.

Would i move him to the head of a theme park? No - thats clearly not his wheelhouse.
WHOA! Where the heck have I been? I totally missed this bit-o-news!

Lau is reporting to MacPhee as the new VP of EPCOT? :eek:

I've lived in San Francisco for over 25 years. MUNI has been a mess forever. Lau did very little to improve those problems during his tenure. Then Disney hired him to improve their transportation woes at WDW, which still remains to be seen. (I'm voting not by a long shot.)

And this qualifies Lau to manage a theme park how?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
His solution to every problem was "uh...add more busses?" because that's the only thing he knows about. Maybe he'll make himself useful and bring back the double decker buses at World Showcase

wstransportation_redbus1983ww.jpg

88-World-Showcase-bus-Ben-West-640x421.jpg

I dont think thats been what Ive heard coming out of his town halls.

Look, I like you as a poster here. Youve got a good rep. I dont think after an exec as a "loser" helps your case here. And I'm a fan of the buses but theyre long gone. Sadly.

Going after an exec being put in charge of a theme park because he has zero theme park experience... well thats something entirely different and entirely accurate. You have to leave the bus guy in charge of buses. You put the theme park guy in charge of theme parks.

Do I think this bodes well for Epcot? I'm not holding my breath. I heard the number 0.2% growth for Epcot touted around, cant speak for its accuracy but I believe those numbers are flat.

Is DAK's & DHS' problems worse? Significantly. Those parks are bleeding and when the TEA numbers come out, I'm confident they'll be losing guests.

They've neglected 3 parks since 2005, failing to reinvest yet reaping the benefits of a soaring stock price.

Shuffling the deck chairs doesn't mean much if Glendale refuses to let you reinvest/redevelop your parks.

I see this more of a "stop the bleeding" move but Epcot is the least of the problems facing Parks & Resorts in Orlando.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
WHOA! Where the heck have I been? I totally missed this bit-o-news!

Lau is reporting to MacPhee as the new VP of EPCOT? :eek:

I've lived in San Francisco for over 25 years. MUNI has been a mess forever. Lau did very little to improve those problems during his tenure. Then Disney hired him to improve their transportation woes at WDW, which still remains to be seen. (I'm voting not by a long shot.)

And this qualifies Lau to manage a theme park how?

Thats where the criticism should be..... Where's the credentials to run a Theme Park?
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
See, I don't really agree. I think they desperately need a new actual ride somewhere in WS -- especially on the west side -- to help to disperse crowds. While the food and shopping attracts people, in my experience talking to folks, a lot of people just ignore WS altogether since they don't think there's enough to do there.

I'm not saying that fixing Imagination, updating Energy and actually putting something in WoL aren't important as well, but FW has been ignored for far too long.

Agree that WS could use another ride, but I know how thin these budgets get in a hurry. My legitimate concern is that Epcot spans some 200+ acres and at that size just doing paving changes eats huge sums of money. I look at Future World in dire need of a major overhaul and if they have 200 million I want every penny spent there.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
Agree that WS could use another ride, but I know how thin these budgets get in a hurry. My legitimate concern is that Epcot spans some 200+ acres and at that size just doing paving changes eats huge sums of money. I look at Future World in dire need of a major overhaul and if they have 200 million I want every penny spent there.

Sponsors would greatly help for new/updated pavilions and shows, but Epcot hasnt had a good track record with that for years now. If they would lower their stinkin greedy fees, more companies would maybe be involved and it would help with funding and support. I feel like I'm working for PBS now lol.
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
Sponsors would greatly help for new/updated pavilions and shows, but Epcot hasnt had a good track record with that for years now. If they would lower their stinkin greedy fees, more companies would maybe be involved and it would help with funding and support. I feel like I'm working for PBS now lol.

I think that sponsorship modelis severely flawed. It hasn't really worked in two decades.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
I think that sponsorship modelis severely flawed. It hasn't really worked in two decades.

Yeah there is def something amiss in that department, Im not even sure they try anymore and probably dont want to becasue they are content with all the food and booze sales, to heck with the attractions. Thats how it feels sometimes anyway. I mean Norway even offered Disney a free new movie as part of a new deal, Disney turned it down because they wanted more $$$$. So that says a lot.
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
Yeah there is def something amiss in that department, Im not even sure they try anymore and probably dont want to becasue they are content with all the food and booze sales, to heck with the attractions. Thats how it feels sometimes anyway. I mean Norway even offered Disney a free new movie as part of a new deal, Disney turned it down because they wanted more $$$$. So that says a lot.

Disney wants too much money for the ROI when you consider the number of people reached.

As far as Norway... That was a pretty amateurish video...
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
Disney wants too much money for the ROI when you consider the number of people reached.

As far as Norway... That was a pretty amateurish video...

Sorry Im having a brain fluff, whats ROI? Im going to kick myself in a sec im sure lol.
Are you referring to the Power of Nature video they would have used in Norway?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
On that note - running a theme park is a pretty specialized experience. If they never think outside the box in hiring the talent pool is really limited.

I understand that and the only way to change management culture is to bring in new blood… I just don't think that this is necessarily higher enough of a change that impacts Disney's way of thinking anymore…
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
I understand that and the only way to change management culture is to bring in new blood… I just don't think that this is necessarily higher enough of a change that impacts Disney's way of thinking anymore…

Things can change and do. Sometimes the slow rate of change doesn't make things apparent at a large organization.
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
Sorry Im having a brain fluff, whats ROI? Im going to kick myself in a sec im sure lol.
Are you referring to the Power of Nature video they would have used in Norway?

Return on Investment

Sponsorship of an attraction costs in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Many hours of television and product placement can be purchased for that sum.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
Return on Investment

Sponsorship of an attraction costs in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Many hours of television and product placement can be purchased for that sum.

gotcha thanks. I knew it was something as simple as that. But yes it is a lot of mulaa. I read somewhere its about 55million for a new world showcase pavilion and that was a couple decades ago. Now where did I read that, hmm I'll have to dig it up.
 

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