mharrington
Well-Known Member
Maybe they won't change the exterior design of the theater. After all, many Disney films premiered at the Chinese Theater, from shorts like "Flowers and Trees" to movies like "Mary Poppins".
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I'm Just Sick Over The Great Movie Ride
- Thread starter CaptainJackNO
- Start date
Walt Disney1955
Well-Known Member
This is where Disney World gets it wrong and Disneyland gets it right. I have no idea why WDW isn't more like Disneyland here in preserving their nostalgic attractions. They have way more space and that alone should be reason for them to build around old attractions rather than tear them down. Can you name a single place anywhere else that you can experience a ride through by seeing animatronics re-enact old classic movies? I can't. Wax museums aren't animatronics by the way so they don't count. Why not have the best of both worlds? It isn't as if DHS couldn't use more attractions to begin with, it always has been a 9-6pm park and nothing more.
Amidala
Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying, but (no matter where you stand on the GMR specifically), I don't think preserving every "classic" ride is the key to growth/progress at the parks. Definitely agree that replacing GMR at this time (w/ DHS so barren, and Animation Courtyard in desperate need of a viable attraction) is a risky move, but I think w/ a lot of cases, if the replacement is a valuable, quality attraction, the replacement is justified. If MMRR doubles (or even triples) the standby wait of GMR, and better fits the revised theme of DHS...it makes sense. I know many don't agree on this, but the lack of upkeep w/ GMR in general has visibly dated the ride; a thorough overhaul would fundamentally change an attraction we all know and love and still wouldn't provide a modern E-Ticket in DHS's landmark building.
If anything, GMR feels like a cautionary tale...WDW needs to be more attentive in its upkeep w/ Splash Mountain, HM and other classics...Obviously sometimes the premise of a ride doesn't age well, but w/ GMR, it's the tech itself. Maybe this all could have been avoided if DHS had refreshed the attraction w/ a new movie here and there or some updated animatronics? All moot now, obviously, but IMO something that could have worked five years ago.
If anything, GMR feels like a cautionary tale...WDW needs to be more attentive in its upkeep w/ Splash Mountain, HM and other classics...Obviously sometimes the premise of a ride doesn't age well, but w/ GMR, it's the tech itself. Maybe this all could have been avoided if DHS had refreshed the attraction w/ a new movie here and there or some updated animatronics? All moot now, obviously, but IMO something that could have worked five years ago.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
I do believe TWDC no longer wants to celebrate Hollywood, they want to celebrate Disney. Hollywood gets a Mouse for a symbol for the same reason WS France gets a Rat.
Disneyfication has been replaced by Disney appropriation. Disney no longer presents a Disneyfied version of Hollywood, or Norway, or the concept of Energy. It showcases itself. It is the Mouse and the Mouse only. The Hollywood of Casablanca, of Wizard of Oz, of a place forever stuck in the stylish glamour of its Art Deco heyday, is no longer presented by Disney. It is only Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar and Disney itself. Disney feels it can present its/an audience a monopoly, at least present all-encompassing offerings, for all demographics and all ages.
Something feels quite deliberate in replacing the attractions that celebrate all classic movies for a Mouse / Marvel one from both studio parks, in DHS and in WDSP (CinéMagique).
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
For me the problem with GMR isn't so much being outdated (John Wayne wasn't hot property in 1989 either) but rather that it fell just short of those other classics you mention. GMR excels in show, in the grand gesture, in presentation. Very Hollywood in that regard.
But the GMR lacked a central story. Well it did have one, its story is that of movie history. But not that of any of the movies presented within. You simply drive past the airplane of Casablanca without truly being taken into the melancholy of its goodbye scene. Or the scares of Alien, or the adventure of Indy. GMR is an anthology ride and as such suffers from emotional detachment with the subject presented, simply for lack of time and story exposition. GMR feels more like walking past the Emporium windows than riding Snow White, which was three minutes of the same subject (Snow) and same mood (scary).
Amidala
Well-Known Member
I think part of that unevenness comes from the fact that some areas of GMR were more strongly themed than others. Obviously the Wizard of Oz and Alien sections "immerse" you in those specific environments more so than, say, Casablanca or Footlight Parade. But all of that being said...I pretty much agree that GMR was never going to regain its wow-factor for guests, no matter what alterations TDO chose to make to the original ride. Like I've said before, I think the alternative would be altering the ride beyond recognition or creating a new ride "based" on GMR (as people have suggested w/ the Great Mickey Ride concept), and TBH, I would much rather see the GMR shut down and replaced with something new.
I think it's really common for people to claim that this generation of guests just doesn't have a solid attention span but...that doesn't make sense to me. (RE: UoE) IMO guests would gladly sit through a 45-minute attraction if it was technologically advanced and/or had a really immersive, engaging premise; after all, I've seen guests wait in longer queues than that. But technology that was impressive fifty or even ten years ago...probably won't have that same impact now; it's not a mark of guests' lack of attention or intelligence, it's a natural progression. Even undisputed classics like Haunted Mansion aren't as technically impressive in this day and age, and make up for this w/ an extremely unique and immersive concept and boatloads of nostalgia (that the ride is so merchandisable can't hurt either).
Anyway, I know everyone's tired of "WDW/DL isn't a museum" but I think this saying makes the rounds as often as it does b/c there's a morsel of truth to it. If MMRR is a disappointment, I'll be as angry as everyone else that this attraction has replaced GMR. And there are plenty of rides I hold dear and would hate to see closed, so I sympathize. But I don't think expanding around existing rides and leaving them preserved in amber for [x] number of years is doing guests or the attraction itself any favors. Yes, WDW has much more room to expand than DL, but if TDO feels an attraction is in a prime spot (as GMR undoubtedly is) and that they can place something more advanced, more popular, more effective, in that space...it's a pretty reasonable call to make IMO.
And by that logic let's insert rides that can be changed out every few years. And ditch IaSW, Peter Pan, Jungle Cruise, Spaceship Earth, Expedition Everest, and others for some IP-based drivel in order to sell a few more bits of merchandise.
Or maybe, just maybe, TWDC could actually read and appreciate their own mission statements for the parks, recognize the land they have doesn't have to be just for more timeshares, and actually maintain and (perish the thought) upgrade the rides that defined their parks for years to come. All while building new ones with their "blessing of space."
Amidala
Well-Known Member
"IP-based drivel"...Just reading this is exhausting to me. An attraction is only "drivel" if it lacks the quality, technology and overall impact to back it up. Would you call the original DL dark rides, or even FoP, drivel? IaSW, Peter Pan, Jungle Cruise and EE remain reasonably popular with guests, despite the fact that the majority of these attractions are not new.
I was pretty obviously not calling for every single classic attraction to be replaced ~just because TDO has the ability to do so. What I am saying is that, as fans, we tend to value the history and culture of an attraction as much as (if not more so than) the ride experience itself...and that just isn't the case for the casual fan! If you're assuming that I don't care about the GMR, you would be wrong...I rode it many, many times and considered it to be my favorite attraction at DHS up until its closing. But like I said, the "blessing of space" doesn't really apply here because GMR was sitting on prime real estate that TDO (presumably based on surveys and the average standby wait) decided could be put to better use. Again...Grauman's Theatre is the centerpiece of DHS, and the attraction inside should not only be popular (which GMR arguably no longer was) but also be able to convey the park's theme. And since DHS will have a different name and theme post-SWL...it stands to reason that the park's centerpiece will have a different attraction. If years from now MMRR isn't a worthy successor to GMR...then I'll be angry.
I also pretty much agree w/ you that TDO should be focusing on upgrading (or even just upkeep, at the basic level) their attractions. Lack of upkeep and upgrades is often what leads to the need for replacement in the first place. But I don't think upgrades are always going to cut it...just because WDW has space to work w/, doesn't mean TDO shouldn't use their currently occupied space cleverly, and w/ a coherent, unifying theme (a huge problem for Epcot and DHS lately). All I'm saying here is...I don't think "Leave all the classic rides untouched and build around them" is going to be a viable solution 100% of the time.
Then don't read it; makes little difference to me. You obviously have little issue with this decision, as your posts have shown since you joined. But to close GMR and replace it with a screen-based ride for the sake of pimping a new version of Mickey et al is ridiculous to many. Especially when they do have the space to put such a ride elsewhere. But since you don't value GMR as much as you supposedly do other rides, don't be concerned with my opines....
Walt Disney1955
Well-Known Member
Not "every" ride, but it is important to keep your core intact. There is plenty of space to build everything they want and still keep some nostalgic rides open. I often wonder how much blame and influence some people on this website can have because for whatever reason Great Movie Ride was a constant target with people and I could never understand why, and still can't. It needed updating sure, but not gutting.
The problem I have is what is left from opening day at DHS? This is only 1989 we are talking about. If Disneyland can still have several things from 1955 still there (and in the case of Alice in Wonderland 1958 and Matterhorn 1959) then why can't a place with more space have any?
Amidala
Well-Known Member
Not sure it's worth debating who's the "better" fan so I'll just step back from this.
I actually agree with this...and really do think GMR's location (prime real estate I imagine TDO wants to replace and refresh for post-SWL DHS) played a huge role in its closing. I've made my peace w/ GMR closing, but it definitely would not have been my first choice to go. Animation Courtyard needs an overhaul desperately...although I still don't think AC would be a grand enough "showcase" for MMRR, which is IG supposed to anchor the new DHS.
Weirdly enough, it's because the original MGM has been so thoroughly washed away at this point that I'm okay with GMR going as well. I was attached to the MGM of the 90s in the way that others who had the chance to visit Epcot Center in its heyday were attached to that park. Seeing the park's flagship attractions (and even fun diversions like the AA) close down one after another has been really disheartening for me. At this point, I'm really eager to see DHS majorly revamped, since early MGM has felt dead for a while now. But it's true that it would be nice to feel that there was something left of that original vision.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Them thar sentence is going to be printed in huge letters on my shirt next time I visit DHS!
Surfin' Tuna
Well-Known Member
I remember when we were promised a "Hollywood that never was and always will be." It wasn't perfect, but it was better than it is now. It always struggled to be a full day park, but it was a place to learn about the movies, animation, and be entertained at the same time. It's similar to Epcot in that way. We had the animation academy, we could learn about special effects, we could see some props from movies we all loved. I can accept the loss of the learning portion just like I learned to accept the loss of the real-life narrator and catchy tune on Listen to the Land. What is harder to accept is when parks lose their identity and just anything is put anywhere, because they are cheaper to operate and help sell something.
Walt loved progress and I think there is an attraction based on that love, so I am sure he would have pushed for progress. What am I not sure he would have loved was taking away the kind of attraction that makes Disney Disney and replacing it with some screens and calling it progress. Sure it will convince a couple of people to buy t-shirts with the new (scary) Mickey, and it's cheaper than operating GMR as is (or updating it). That does not make it right.
What most of us on this board love about Disney was that special something that made Disney so much better than all the other parks that followed. It's that something that made a Joe Rohde want to be an imagineer and create the things that he has, and I am afraid that magic is dying. It is being replaced with lower budget and less creativity. Maybe the Mickey and Minnie Runaway Railway will be great, but I am not too sure about that. Some of us do wax poetic a bit too much about the heyday of Epcot and now Hollywood Studios, but we are sad to see the end of the long format dark ride that were something special.
Walt loved progress and I think there is an attraction based on that love, so I am sure he would have pushed for progress. What am I not sure he would have loved was taking away the kind of attraction that makes Disney Disney and replacing it with some screens and calling it progress. Sure it will convince a couple of people to buy t-shirts with the new (scary) Mickey, and it's cheaper than operating GMR as is (or updating it). That does not make it right.
What most of us on this board love about Disney was that special something that made Disney so much better than all the other parks that followed. It's that something that made a Joe Rohde want to be an imagineer and create the things that he has, and I am afraid that magic is dying. It is being replaced with lower budget and less creativity. Maybe the Mickey and Minnie Runaway Railway will be great, but I am not too sure about that. Some of us do wax poetic a bit too much about the heyday of Epcot and now Hollywood Studios, but we are sad to see the end of the long format dark ride that were something special.