Iger and Chapek Livid With Lucasfilm

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Especially if you’re a fan of Mandolorian, that um “interestingly colored” lightsaber has a long history behind it and it’s explained in the clone wars. Also it is heavily rumored a main character from that series will guest star next season.

...two actually. Starbuck is coming in to play another Mando from the Clone Wars...reportedly

 

[UNCgolf]

I would disagree.

Rian is the one that reset the trilogy completely. As that's what he needed for his deconstructed take on Star Wars. JJ rehashed large plot elements but it was still a new story, new characters and roles which could unfold in many different ways. The First Order was not the Empire in JJ's film.

"The First Order reigns."

These words reset it.

Really? In Force Awakens, the First Order had a planet base that could destroy entire star systems. They blew up the entire Republic government and a huge portion of the Republic fleet -- he's also the one who decided to make the Republic impotent and not taking the threat seriously. Anything other than the First Order being in control of the galaxy in the second movie would have been almost impossible to believe; I'm actually surprised anyone thinks otherwise. That was one of the main reasons I didn't like Force Awakens when I saw it in the theater -- I knew it had just reset everything to the Empire vs. the Rebellion well before Last Jedi was released.

All the complaints about Luke's story in Last Jedi (which I agree with) are also indirectly a result of Abrams -- he's the one who locked Luke away on a planet by himself. There could have been another explanation for why he did that, of course, but Abrams is still the one who handed the keys off to someone else rather than deal with it himself. If he'd had Luke play a regular role in Force Awakens, then the Luke plot in Last Jedi would have been impossible.

Plus, as mentioned earlier, there was a much bigger drop in interest from Force Awakens to Last Jedi than there was from Last Jedi to Rise of Skywalker. I think that's a pretty good indicator that a lot of people saw Force Awakens the way I did. Also, Abrams declined the option to make the sequel movie, so he probably never had any specific story plans anyways.

 

[Tom P.]

One thing I don't get is this new found love that the fandom apparently has had for Hayden Christensen in recent years. Obviously its great that people are coming around and appreciating him more. But maybe people forgot but he was hated on just as much as Jar Jar back in the day. People called his acting wooden and all that and some still do. The star wars fandom is weird. I reckon in 3-5 years or so your going to start seeing sequel trilogy apologists start coming out of the closet lol whenever the next movie drops.

The acting of the everyone in the prequel trilogy is wooden. And there are some very fine actors among the bunch. The only thing I can figure out is that Lucas deliberately directed them that way, for some unknown reason. That must be the kind of performance he was going for. I don't know. As I have said previously, I think Lucas is a horrible, horrible director. But I have no problem with him as a creative force behind Star Wars.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The acting of the everyone in the prequel trilogy is wooden. And there are some very fine actors among the bunch. The only thing I can figure out is that Lucas deliberately directed them that way, for some unknown reason. That must be the kind of performance he was going for. I don't know. As I have said previously, I think Lucas is a horrible, horrible director. But I have no problem with him as a creative force behind Star Wars.

The bad acting was almost by design from Lucas. Remember in near every interview about those movies after the fact it’s mentioned he would yell “faster, faster!” At them. All the mains have said it.

And he did so for the DUMBEST reason in History - more than likely. To shave minutes off the movie for more showing.

My god is that stupid. Empire never felt rushed...neither really did Jedi...

Again, that was part of the feel and only those making the movies seem not to understand

 

[UNCgolf]

The acting of the everyone in the prequel trilogy is wooden. And there are some very fine actors among the bunch. The only thing I can figure out is that Lucas deliberately directed them that way, for some unknown reason. That must be the kind of performance he was going for. I don't know. As I have said previously, I think Lucas is a horrible, horrible director. But I have no problem with him as a creative force behind Star Wars.

I think that's partially what made Ian McDiarmid so delightful in them. Everyone else is so wooden (other than Ewan McGregor, who also does a good job with poor material), and McDiarmid is chewing up the scenery left and right.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think that's partially what made Ian McDiarmid so delightful in them. Everyone else is so wooden (other than Ewan McGregor, who also does a good job with poor material), and McDiarmid is chewing up the scenery left and right.

He was probably the best...

But his portrayal in Jedi was transcendent in many ways. The “younger version” of that character was pretty good until sith...where it went too popcorn for my tastes.

 

[Gomer]

The acting of the everyone in the prequel trilogy is wooden. And there are some very fine actors among the bunch. The only thing I can figure out is that Lucas deliberately directed them that way, for some unknown reason. That must be the kind of performance he was going for. I don't know. As I have said previously, I think Lucas is a horrible, horrible director. But I have no problem with him as a creative force behind Star Wars.

There's a scene in BTS documentary for The Phantom Menace that I think somewhat explains the actor output. There's a scene on the queen's ship where Obi-Wan is in a conversation in the cockpit. George likes the take but dislikes that Ewan was not looking in the direction he needed. So he took a completely different take of Obi-Wan and cropped it into the scene.

George got the visual he wanted, but didn't care that the performances didn't match from a single cut. Lucas is a hyper-focused visual director. Stuff like performance doesn't seem to matter as much to him as long as the nuts and bolts of what he needs exists. A better actor's director would sacrifice those logistics in favor of a take with a good performance. SO what we end up with is something that exactly matches his vision, but lacks any of the typical mining of takes for the best actor output you'd see in most movies. It produces a visually stunning film, that ends up feeling wooden.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There's a scene in BTS documentary for The Phantom Menace that I think somewhat explains the actor output. There's a scene on the queen's ship where Obi-Wan is in a conversation in the cockpit. George likes the take but dislikes that Ewan was not looking in the direction he needed. So he took a completely different take of Obi-Wan and cropped it into the scene.

George got the visual he wanted, but didn't care that the performances didn't match from a single cut. Lucas is a hyper-focused visual director. Stuff like performance doesn't seem to matter as much to him as long as the nuts and bolts of what he needs exists. A better actor's director would sacrifice those logistics in favor of a take with a good performance. SO what we end up with is something that exactly matches his vision, but lacks any of the typical mining of takes for the best actor output you'd see in most movies. It produces a visually stunning film, that ends up feeling wooden.

My favorite behind the scenes clip of all time is Mccallum in like a kitchen at Skywalker ranch with some of the guys in absolute frustrated angst after they watched the movie for I believe the first time.

I looked at him in a totally different light after I saw that. I had always boiled him down to an enabling yes man that was a sycophant. I think he was taken for a ride by crazy George as much as anything.

So much so he was banished from Hollywood (by Disney) and is doing special effects in like Romania or somewhere now?

 

[Gomer]

My favorite behind the scenes clip of all time is Mccallum in like a kitchen at Skywalker ranch with some of the guys in absolute frustrated angst after they watched the movie for I believe the first time.

I looked at him in a totally different light after I saw that. I had always boiled him down to an enabling yes man that was a sycophant. I think he was taken for a ride by crazy George as much as anything.

So much so he was banished from Hollywood (by Disney) and is doing special effects in like Romania or somewhere now?

McCallum gets a bit of a bad wrap. I'm not sure there are many producers who would have stood in George's way in 1999. He was still the god of SW. Hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to say someone should have kept him in check and pushed back on some of the decisions being made. And I'm sure there are some who would have recognized the need in that moment, but in the late 90's George could do no wrong. And he had more successful production experience under his belt than McCallum did anyway. Rick was in over his head and ended up paying for it.

But the vast majority of Producers see their function as one of enabling the director's vision and only keeping them in check from a monetary perspective when they reach too far. Money was no object on the PT, so he ended up just doing the enabling portion of the equation. I mean, even Spielberg was afraid to check George too much when he was asked for input. If Spielberg didn't have that weight in that time, who would?

 

[Tom P.]

McCallum gets a bit of a bad wrap. I'm not sure there are many producers who would have stood in George's way in 1999. He was still the god of SW. Hindsight being 20/20, it's easy to say someone should have kept him in check and pushed back on some of the decisions being made. And I'm sure there are some who would have recognized the need in that moment, but in the late 90's George could do no wrong. And he had more successful production experience under his belt than McCallum did anyway. Rick was in over his head and ended up paying for it.

But the vast majority of Producers see their function as one of enabling the director's vision and only keeping them in check from a monetary perspective when they reach too far. Money was no object on the PT, so he ended up just doing the enabling portion of the equation. I mean, even Spielberg was afraid to check George too much when he was asked for input. If Spielberg didn't have that weight in that time, who would?

Agree with this. This makes me think of the original cast Star Trek films. A good producer can make all the difference. Nicholas Meyer is a great writer and director, but he had no respect for the source material. In Wrath of Khan, you had a producer in Harve Bennett who had almost a reverence for the original series and kept Meyer in check. And you ended up with an absolute classic of sci-fi films. By the time of The Undiscovered Country, Bennett was gone and so Meyer gave us silliness like Kirk saying "right standard rudder" in space and Uhura searching through musty old books for Klingon translations instead of using her computer.

A producer can make or break a film almost as much as a director.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Really? In Force Awakens, the First Order had a planet base that could destroy entire star systems. They blew up the entire Republic government and a huge portion of the Republic fleet -- he's also the one who decided to make the Republic impotent and not taking the threat seriously. Anything other than the First Order being in control of the galaxy in the second movie would have been almost impossible to believe; I'm actually surprised anyone thinks otherwise. That was one of the main reasons I didn't like Force Awakens when I saw it in the theater -- I knew it had just reset everything to the Empire vs. the Rebellion well before Last Jedi was released.

The reason why the First Order would not suddenly be in control after The Force Awakens is given in the eight films set before its events, the Galaxy does not just acquiesce and that is doubly true for the Outer Rim where neither the Republic nor the Galaxy ever exerted control. The first time around it took the Emperor about 20 years to dissolve the Senate. He was always fighting a rebellion. He didn’t shut down groups like Red Dawn. Why would the Hutts suddenly be kowtowing to Snoke?

JJ did a very bad job of communicating the political dynamics of the Galaxy, likely a reaction against the prequels. The First Order was more like an ISIS that was able to acquire the bomb than the Super Mongol Empire lead by Mystery Box Man, wait no an irrelevant nobody, wait no a Palpatine clone thing.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The reason why the First Order would not suddenly be in control after The Force Awakens is given in the eight films set before its events, the Galaxy does not just acquiesce and that is doubly true for the Outer Rim where neither the Republic nor the Galaxy ever exerted control. The first time around it took the Emperor about 20 years to dissolve the Senate. He was always fighting a rebellion. He didn’t shut down groups like Red Dawn. Why would the Hutts suddenly be kowtowing to Snoke?

JJ did a very bad job of communicating the political dynamics of the Galaxy, likely a reaction against the prequels. The First Order was more like an ISIS that was able to acquire the bomb than the Super Mongol Empire lead by Mystery Box Man, wait no an irrelevant nobody, wait no a Palpatine clone thing.

Exactly.

I’m not sure that was “abrams” alone though. I have to go with the tone of Michael arndt that it was mandated from the dwarf house to basically “wipe the slate”

Get people in the door with the old 3...then dispose of them as quickly as possible for these bland new archetypes.

I know they couldn’t possibly wrangle “EU” because George let that go crazy....but this one thing was simple:
Good guys: republic
Bad guys: empire

Don’t slightly modify stormtrooper helmets, tie fighters and Star destroyers...instead introduce new stuff to augment those things people loved to the tune of $100,000,000,000

What a compete cluster...would have sold way more stuff and firmed up the bridge to the old fans...who have ALL the money now!

Just...ugh...sorry to rant...but how the hell was this “hard” in any way??

Rian Johnson’s one job...the only job...was to make Luke Skywalker the wise mentor and go out like a bad ...

That. Was. It.

 

[asianway]

Exactly.

I’m not sure that was “abrams” alone though. I have to go with the tone of Michael arndt that it was mandated from the dwarf house to basically “wipe the slate”

Get people in the door with the old 3...then dispose of them as quickly as possible for these bland knew archetypes.

I know they couldn’t possibly wrangle “EU” because George let that go crazy....but this one thing was simple:
Good guys: republic
Bad guys: smpire

Don’t slightly modify stormtrooper helmets, tie fighters and Star destroyers...instead introduce new stuff to augment those things people loved to the tune of $100,000,000

What a compete cluster...would have sold way more stuff and firmed up the bridge to the old fans...who have ALL the money now!

Just...ugh...sorry to rant...but how the hell was this “hard” in any way??

Rian Johnson’s one job...the only job...was to make Luke Skywalker the wise mentor and go out like a bad ****...

That. Was. It.

We can’t complain about 30 year old monorails and not expect their military hardware to evolve

 

[UNCgolf]

The reason why the First Order would not suddenly be in control after The Force Awakens is given in the eight films set before its events, the Galaxy does not just acquiesce and that is doubly true for the Outer Rim where neither the Republic nor the Galaxy ever exerted control. The first time around it took the Emperor about 20 years to dissolve the Senate. He was always fighting a rebellion. He didn’t shut down groups like Red Dawn. Why would the Hutts suddenly be kowtowing to Snoke?

JJ did a very bad job of communicating the political dynamics of the Galaxy, likely a reaction against the prequels. The First Order was more like an ISIS that was able to acquire the bomb than the Super Mongol Empire lead by Mystery Box Man, wait no an irrelevant nobody, wait no a Palpatine clone thing.

That's not the same thing, at least in my opinion. I don't remember The Last Jedi showing them as being in complete control of every planet across the galaxy or even as having any kind of central government in place; they just had the strongest military force (although I could be wrong about that because I've only seen Last Jedi once). I don't know why anyone would assume, based on Last Jedi, that groups like the Hutts were now under the control of the First Order. They didn't seem to have any presence on Canto Bight, for one, at least in my memory.

Regardless, the ISIS comparison falls flat. The First Order built Starkiller Base, which would have been an inconceivably massive undertaking requiring probably hundreds of thousands of people and trillions of dollars worth of materials. They were clearly a gigantic organization in Force Awakens with tremendous resources and manpower. It would like ISIS recreating the entire Manhattan Project from scratch; not them just finding a random bomb.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We can’t complain about 30 year old monorails and not expect their military hardware to evolve

If it evolved...

Change the mouth and painting things black with an antenna?

Cheap and stupid. An obvious marketing strategy designed by a second grader.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's not the same thing, at least in my opinion. I don't remember The Last Jedi showing them as being in complete control of every planet across the galaxy or even as having any kind of central government in place; they just had the strongest military force (although I could be wrong about that because I've only seen Last Jedi once). I don't know why anyone would assume, based on Last Jedi, that groups like the Hutts were now under the control of the First Order.

Regardless, the ISIS comparison falls flat. The First Order built Starkiller Base, which would have been an inconceivably massive undertaking requiring hundreds of thousands of people and trillions of dollars worth of materials. They were clearly a massive organization in Force Awakens with tremendous resources and manpower.

They kinda presented the galaxy as “post apocalyptic”...but didn’t do a good job of it. Not even close.

I got the “impression” of factions...and of course they put that stuff in a book nobody would read...just LIKE the EU.

But it wasn’t relayed well at all. I get the gist was that the “winners” were tired of war and gave up. What France was accused of doing in 1940 (but really didn’t)...

I get it. Could have spent 90 seconds of airtime saying it. In fact...you had a battle graveyard on a desert planet to help you tell it. But what happened? Not Han Solo flew the millennium falcon through it

Honestly...it reminded me of the Postman. Not il postino....the Kevin Costner postman

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Rian abandoned the new story, deconstructed Star Wars to the basic premise of the Original trilogy. It's the middle film, there for the main plot is that of The Empire Strikes Back. Escape hidden base, but didn't really escape. Star Wars is about young hero who discovers they have a power, they seek guidance from wise old mentors and are connected to the bad guy. They resist the dark side, team up with the bad guy to defeat the really bad guy.

You can deconstruct the plot of any film (especially a Star Wars film, which all have fairly weak plots) to make it sound bad.

But even you have to admit that these events share almost nothing in common with one another besides the bare structure that you've already stated. Some retread, huh?

 

[WDW Pro]

You can deconstruct the plot of any film (especially a Star Wars film, which all have fairly weak plots) to make it sound bad.

But even you have to admit that these events share almost nothing in common with one another besides the bare structure that you've already stated. Some retread, huh?

In reality, a huge reason Star Wars was so popular is because George Lucas studied and implemented ancient archetypal mythos that resonates cross-culturally. Star Wars is essentially about the redemption of the fallen father by the innocent but pure youth.

The Kennedy-Johnson wing of modern Lucasfilm seeks to deconstruct and leave that mythos with a postmodern take.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's not the same thing, at least in my opinion. I don't remember The Last Jedi showing them as being in complete control of every planet across the galaxy or even as having any kind of central government in place; they just had the strongest military force (although I could be wrong about that because I've only seen Last Jedi once). I don't know why anyone would assume, based on Last Jedi, that groups like the Hutts were now under the control of the First Order. They didn't seem to have any presence on Canto Bight, for one, at least in my memory.

The whole reason the chase is occurring and a dire situation is because nobody is willing to come to the assistance of the Resistance with it being specifically noted that even those in the Outer Rim are unwilling to help. Of course if they had found Lando gambling on Canto Bight I guess he could have asked everyone to come fight.

Regardless, the ISIS comparison falls flat. The First Order built Starkiller Base, which would have been an inconceivably massive undertaking requiring probably hundreds of thousands of people and trillions of dollars worth of materials. They were clearly a gigantic organization in Force Awakens with tremendous resources and manpower. It would like ISIS recreating the entire Manhattan Project from scratch; not them just finding a random bomb.

Starkiller Base is just dumb, the worst sort of fan service and definitely contradicts the then state of the First Order and why the New Republic dismissed it as a personal problem between Leia and Ben.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

In reality, a huge reason Star Wars was so popular is because George Lucas studied and implemented ancient archetypal mythos that resonates cross-culturally. Star Wars is essentially about the redemption of the fallen father by the innocent but pure youth.

The Kennedy-Johnson wing of modern Lucasfilm seeks to deconstruct and leave that mythos with a postmodern take.

True, but I'd say that the prequels also do the same but in different ways.