Iger and Chapek Livid With Lucasfilm

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I wasn't either. By 2012 I had long made my peace again with Lucas. (George and I sat down for a pint and)

My initial horror at the prequels was gone already by Ep.II (am I the only one who loves it?), and the really rather good Ep. III. Even his vandalism of the OT was redeemed somewhat by the terrific Close Wars that had made SW fun and inventive again by the time of the sale. Hating on Lucas was sooo last decade.

Maybe? Attack of the Clones was horrible. It was worse than Phantom Menace. Revenge of the Sith really wasn't bad, though -- it still had some cringeworthy moments, but it was a significant improvement over the first two prequels.
 
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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
That was done in episode 8. By Robinson-Skywalker.

I think Rian Johnson was given an incredibly difficult task after Force Awakens. That movie left the Star Wars galaxy in a relatively boring place by resetting everything. The sequel trilogy should have been set in a still young and burgeoning Republic with the potential for all kinds of new storylines; a rehash of the Rebellion vs. the Empire was a bad idea. It set up the following movies to be completely stagnant from a plot standpoint.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I actually liked RotS.
My problem with that movie was the die was cast...you can’t strike out the first two and you REALLY can’t miss on the middle chapter...

And it turns out past was prologue.

Star Wars was such a reflection of the strength of empire. Didn’t matter that Jedi was a rehash. Not at the time.

Oh well...nothing new to say...mistakes have been made and they were obvious.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think Rian Johnson was given an incredibly difficult task after Force Awakens. That movie left the Star Wars galaxy in a boring place by resetting everything. The sequel trilogy should have been set in a still young and burgeoning Republic with the potential for all kinds of new storylines; a rehash of the Rebellion vs. the Empire was a bad idea. It set up the following movies to be completely stagnant from a plot standpoint.
I can actually see that...

I’ll refer to the Michael arndt interview up thread that really sums up the issues.
 

Darkprime

Well-Known Member
I think Rian Johnson was given an incredibly difficult task after Force Awakens. That movie left the Star Wars galaxy in a boring place by resetting everything. The sequel trilogy should have been set in a still young and burgeoning Republic with the potential for all kinds of new storylines; a rehash of the Rebellion vs. the Empire was a bad idea. It set up the following movies to be completely stagnant from a plot standpoint.

I disagree. I think JJ setup some interesting stuff in his mystery box. It was Rian who seemed to not be able to come up with any decent answers. And just threw it all aside for the sake of subverting expectations.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I disagree. I think JJ setup some interesting stuff in his mystery box. It was Rian who seemed to not be able to come up with any decent answers. And just threw it all aside for the sake of subverting expectations.
Oh please...that was straight on reboot...a paycheck for ford...and emphasis on fisher who frankly wasn’t up to even being brought back...and I’ve got medicals to back that last one up.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I still haven't seen Rise of Skywalker (will probably check it out this week since it's on Disney+ now), but Force Awakens and Last Jedi are pretty good movies in a vacuum. They both have some bad scenes/plots (the rathtar/gangs stuff in Force Awakens and Canto Bight in Last Jedi, among others) but they're fine overall; they're certainly not poorly made or bad films.

The issue is that they weren't made in a vacuum; they were made as sequels to an existing trilogy. And instead of advancing the story in any meaningful way, they just mined the originals for nostalgia and didn't really do anything new or interesting.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I still haven't seen Rise of Skywalker (will probably check it out this week since it's on Disney+ now), but Force Awakens and Last Jedi are pretty good movies in a vacuum. They both have some bad scenes/plots (the rathtar/gangs stuff in Force Awakens and Canto Bight in Last Jedi, among others) but they're fine overall; they're certainly not poorly made or bad films.

The issue is that they weren't made in a vacuum; they were made as sequels to an existing trilogy. And instead of advancing the story in any meaningful way, they just mined the originals for nostalgia and didn't really do anything new or interesting.
Agree to disagree.

You can’t separate the context of the Star Wars phenomena from the films in it. That’s the deal. Higher standard. Both Lucas and Disney should’ve known and yet couldn’t keep their tendencies under control to make the right kind of movies
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Agree to disagree.

You can’t separate the context of the Star Wars phenomena from the films in it. That’s the deal. Higher standard. Both Lucas and Disney should’ve known and yet couldn’t keep their tendencies under control to make the right kind of movies

I think we're saying the same thing. To me, Force Awakens and Last Jedi were failures (I didn't really like them at all) because of the context given by what came before. My point was that if the original trilogy didn't exist and this was some totally new IP, they're not bad movies the way something like Jupiter Ascending is.
 

Darkprime

Well-Known Member
Most people were at least excited about where star wars was going after TFA (credit to JJ's mystery box. People wanted to know who Rey was, what happened to Luke,Who was Snoke etc it generated conversation) while at the same time most acknowledged that the movie played it safe. Which to be fair they had to after the state the franchise was in after the prequels. However nobody cared where the franchise was going after TLJ. See TROS box office, barely crawling over a billion and saw a significant drop from TLJ to which even Disney has acknowledged. Hence why the franchise is now taking a 3+ year hiatus. And the keys to the kingdom seemingly being given to favreau,filoni and feige. While Kennedy sits back and rides out the remainder of her contract.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Most people were at least excited about where star wars was going after TFA (credit to JJ's mystery box. People wanted to know who Rey was, what happened to Luke,Who was Snoke etc it generated conversation) while at the same time most acknowledged that the movie played it safe. Which to be fair they had to after the state the franchise was in after the prequels. However nobody cared where the franchise was going after TLJ. See TROS box office, barely crawling over a billion and saw a significant drop from TLJ to which even Disney has acknowledged. Hence why the franchise is now taking a 3+ year hiatus. And the keys to the kingdom seemingly being given to favreau,filoni and feige. While Kennedy sits back and rides out the remainder of her contract.
I think the box office was 10 years demand built up and Disney playing the “we got this” angle...

It was also the fans getting “fooled again” in that the prequels would be atoned for and Star Wars would be king again...it never will though.

I think there was little to like or even remember in what they did with all 3 movies and that’s why they are far too close to the prequels and that’s how it was written.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Most people were at least excited about where star wars was going after TFA (credit to JJ's mystery box. People wanted to know who Rey was, what happened to Luke,Who was Snoke etc it generated conversation) while at the same time most acknowledged that the movie played it safe. Which to be fair they had to after the state the franchise was in after the prequels. However nobody cared where the franchise was going after TLJ. See TROS box office, barely crawling over a billion and saw a significant drop from TLJ to which even Disney has acknowledged. Hence why the franchise is now taking a 3+ year hiatus. And the keys to the kingdom seemingly being given to favreau,filoni and feige. While Kennedy sits back and rides out the remainder of her contract.

There was a much bigger drop from Force Awakens to Last Jedi (almost $750 million dollars) than there was from Last Jedi to Rise of Skywalker (about $250 million), so if that's your argument, you could just as easily say that Force Awakens made people lose interest in Star Wars.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I still haven't seen Rise of Skywalker (will probably check it out this week since it's on Disney+ now), but Force Awakens and Last Jedi are pretty good movies in a vacuum. They both have some bad scenes/plots (the rathtar/gangs stuff in Force Awakens and Canto Bight in Last Jedi, among others) but they're fine overall; they're certainly not poorly made or bad films.

The issue is that they weren't made in a vacuum; they were made as sequels to an existing trilogy. And instead of advancing the story in any meaningful way, they just mined the originals for nostalgia and didn't really do anything new or interesting.

Exactly this. The problem is not with the individual films but in how they connect to their own trilogy and the greater story. And Episode IX doesn't help in the slightest (made it even worse). You could probably have taken about 75% of the sequels and used that to make a high quality trilogy if there was actually a unified vision and plan.

The prequels told a coherent and seemingly decent story. The first two just were awful films and the third was decent but nothing special. The tinker of time hasn't helped - TPM and AtoC are slogs to sit through and watch.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Exactly this. The problem is not with the individual films but in how they connect to their own trilogy and the greater story. And Episode IX doesn't help in the slightest (made it even worse). You could probably have taken about 75% of the sequels and used that to make a high quality trilogy if there was actually a unified vision and plan.

The prequels told a coherent and seemingly decent story. The first two just were awful films and the third was decent but nothing special. The tinker of time hasn't helped - TPM and AtoC are slogs to sit through and watch.
Maybe it’s because I just watched the second episode of gallery and filoni does a very good job of running cover for Lucas...

But I see the prequels as having much better story elements and possibilities than any of the sequel movies...there’s just nothing ther but a sting of scenes that don’t interconnect well at all.

But as you said...the prequels were just shot and written so badly. An increase in either of those elements and it could have been a new ballgame.

We forget that Lucas actually directed one good movie in his whole career...American graffiti.

Star Wars was heavily laden with second unit shots and the editors completely recut the whole story. It’s a disaster if George did all that.

And empire was Kurtz and kershner overpowering Lucas...without that...there is no phenomena
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
I think Rian Johnson was given an incredibly difficult task after Force Awakens. That movie left the Star Wars galaxy in a relatively boring place by resetting everything. The sequel trilogy should have been set in a still young and burgeoning Republic with the potential for all kinds of new storylines; a rehash of the Rebellion vs. the Empire was a bad idea. It set up the following movies to be completely stagnant from a plot standpoint.

I would disagree.

Rian is the one that reset the trilogy completely. As that's what he needed for his deconstructed take on Star Wars. JJ rehashed large plot elements but it was still a new story, new characters and roles which could unfold in many different ways. The First Order was not the Empire in JJ's film.

"The First Order reigns."

These words reset it.

There could have been countless power dynamics in the galaxy if anything this is the least expected.

Rian abandoned the new story, deconstructed Star Wars to the basic premise of the Original trilogy. It's the middle film, there for the main plot is that of The Empire Strikes Back. Escape hidden base, but didn't really escape. Star Wars is about young hero who discovers they have a power, they seek guidance from wise old mentors and are connected to the bad guy. They resist the dark side, team up with the bad guy to defeat the really bad guy.

Rian laid this simple plot across his film, subverting expectations here and there. All he saw Star Wars as being was the plot of the originals. He had no vision, imagination or scope beyond it. He didn't care for the story JJ was telling or the story of the trilogy. He also didn't care about the story to follow.

With this insular deconstructed view, he lost sight of characters like Luke. Seeing them only as the mentor role and serving his Star Wars story. Not continuing the larger story of who they are. What is going on in the larger plot. Characters like Finn and Leia which have no analogue in the originals have nothing to do. Finn's arc is a retread. Leia sleeps for most of the movie. Poes is about a take on a type of hero character. DJ was a take on Han Solo, but without a good heart.

He has to force a connection between Rey and Ben. Do the throne room, but the bad guy wasn't redeemed. It's different!

The film ends, and all you're left with is still the basic premise of originals. With no story. He abandoned JJ's. Retread the backbone of the original, set basically nothing up. Just Rebels vs Empire now. Except he didn't understand what Star Wars was, deconstructed it and lost its elements. Fans revolted. When the filmmakers don't care about the story, why should the audience?

He simple was not interested in continuing the story and there was a story in The Force Awakens. The film didn't explore a lot of depth or world building but if anything that gave the next write even more freedom. Rian's film was simply not about being anything other than his take on Star Wars.
 

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